1997 Suzuki Sidekick JS, 4 door, MT, 1.6 motor, approx 95,000 original miles. Canada made. I live in Alabama.
At last writing, the second mechanic shop had disassembled the intake manifold and cleaned, including egr tube, etc. New intake gaskets, etc. Car performed no better and no differently. Took it back. They checked the fuel filter. Sauid all good. Not dirty, no water in fuel, etc., They checked the spark plug gap and gapped per specs. Checked timing. Still could not get them to do back pressure test - why they won't check I dont know.
Finally, they tell me I need a new Throttle Position Sensor. Really? After much searching, Ifind the throttle position sensor (supposedly) on Amazon and Ebay but also locally at O'reilly and Advance. Both Standard Intermotor but when opened box Mikuni. I had advance cross check their part (the muki part) with the Beck and Arnley # I had found and to check using my vin #. Confirmed correct part. Ordered and took days to get.
Took part to mechnaic today today and wrong TPS. Inspite of the fact that various brands are the same sensor and based on my vin it should have been correct.
My TPS is much larger in diameter than the one that I got. Interestingly, I had bought a used throttle body off Ebay that was "supposed" to fit my car. The TPS I got got will fit that throttle body but not the one on my car!
There sem to be several posiibilities on ebay, parts, geek etc that say they fit my car and they are different.
I do not have pics of mine although I asked the mechanic twice today to take pics of my TPS and the "wrong" TPS so I would have them. Did not do.
All you can read on my TPS is either : F1T SS06 or FIT SS06 and even that is not clear...looks kind of rubbed off.
There is no number I could find on the throttle body and you cant really read the numbers off of my TPS but it should have been original to the car. I am at a total loss. How in the devil do you find the right TPS? I even called and emailed Mikuni to see if they can help. Dont know how long it will take and if they can figure out.
Car has been sitting back at shop over a week and still.....I don't know what else to do at this point. Car was fine until I stupidly chnaged EGR, Modulator and switch inspite of other mechnaic saying all good but still showing PO400 code, etc.
Current shop has left that issue alone at this point and my simple mind said put old parts back - thats when this all started. They do not listen to a thing I say. It was worth a shot to me. I asked that they recheck the new parts but dont know if they did or not.
Lots of money and time and car is/ was perfect before I switched the stupid parts, etc.
1997 Suzuki Sidekick JS, 4 door, MT, 1.6 motor, approx 95,000 original miles. CAMI made. I live in Alabama.
OK Buying TPS is not easy 97 have newer smaller TPS,
first off, you need to show a photo of said, sensor. to me, after all here are 2 facts. for sure old cars...
1: Engine, or TB or manifold swaps, are common this old and some cars changed mid year, at CAMI, you know how cami is, right the plant up in canada made our cards
VIN 2CB........ the C ,means made in CAMI, JS, means made in japan, and sorry to tell you if JS parts are not the same (many)
the new sensor is covered on my pages on TPS, fully and with photos and ruler readings
when the car looses power, does it catch up,?? you need to answer that. first. if it does CATCH up the TPS is good and fuel pressure bad or injector 10micron screens bad, or FPR
the TPS is only for TIP in throttle extra power, that is it, but sure 2 probems can it be.... TPS and fuel pressure wrong..... 2 hard failures are common on cars this old and is super common.
forget P0400 defeat the EGR as I told you and forget 400 ,ok,, fix the engine now, EGR defeated, and win.
I guess you mechanics never heard of timing light, fuel pressure gage, vacuum gage, or compression gage>?? fuel pressure must be right or no injector can work right ,impossible.
the fuel pressure on this old old car is $1 on the list. for sure.
your car (TPS) cam with the new 31 mm TPS
that is what fit new.
SUZUKI 58B10 , not 58B00
see that 10 there, means the smaller 96+ TPS. for sure, if engine swaps no present.
I cover them all on my BUY parts page.. https://fixkick.com/buy-parts#TPS
the sellers of TPS not SUZUKI get this wrong, all the time, they cant even get 8v and 16valve right, but also know this SUZUKI stupidly named both enigines VIN code #2 (yah stupid)
the in 1996 up silly sellers thing all TPS are the same, and ARE NOT
off my page is this.
The correct P/N for the Suzuki 16v is: 13420-58B10 92-98′ USA only narrow base TPS body
usa banned 8v engine in 1996 so is not 8v so stores selling this are NUTS, off there rocker wrong. USA. banned it is, EPA and never sold here,and is OBD2 car, and that double bans the 8v for a fact.
so we only need to match 16v and only 31mm base or NOT and SOHC engine not the J18 DOHC engine, I can not see your engine to know what is there, not me, nor the TPS.
I look at ROCKAUTO.com and there are only 4 choices now,( support is on the wane)
OK I had to re-read all your posts, and for sure it lacks symptoms. and too much Info scares you but the car has computer and that sure is scary to most.
so again, it is NOT THE EGR failing causing all your driving symptoms. (yes EGR system is bad so what?)
And I am the what we call the GUY in the middle, that is never good. so let me make a list, we alll ready know the car had bad fuel, and water in the fuel, double bad THAT.
EGR main is new, (seen rear of intake runner #4)
the car has a computer, called a ECU (or PCM<) the electronic fuel injection system MPI, means 4 injectors)
The Engine is 16valves, G16B not the J18 engine with 2 cams (yours has 1 cam and top of engine yells, 16valves,loud. (emboss cast in the aluminum top)
As such the engine runs in many PCM modes, cold , hot, idling , cruising , accelerating and wot, wide open throttle.(pedal to the metal)
Symptoms all.
when does the engine misfire, bog or hesitate. in all those modes above ,tell the good and bad, tell what mode works and which do not..
I can not drive your car so tell the GOOD the bad and the Ugly, tell all things good and bad, , eg. it does idle hot 800 RPM smoothly?)
now some hard direct questions, (part of above for sure)
when you cruise the car steady right foot does then engine have full power just say going ~45mph. steady (y/n)
does the car accelerate up say a hill ok, (if no hills there say so) and for sure if you use magic WOT mode, does the car have full power, even AFTER A SHORT HESITATION
if the WOT fails that is not a bad TPS. ok/ ?
if full power (engine) resumes with WOT, I call that CATCH up. (that is a good sign) and if it does not CATCH UP the MAF can be bad, or fuel pressure low or injectors are clogged.
can you forget the EGR please, even defeat it and see car still fails , now ,proving you EGR IS NOT THE PRIME CAUSE.
The EGR we fix last, and can be very expensive this, huge, if all paths of exhaust ports are packed full of carbon, huge labor, to fix that, and frankly is huge distraction to your real failure.
I can not tell you mech what to do.. but it seems they are hopeless to me, not able to diagnose any MPI car is that, all cars now are MPI 99% (or direct injection)
they should hide their heads in shame. but they said the did not see the problem driving, so.... there is that.
tactic #1 . just drive it until it gets worse, and for sure buy a bottle of Chevron TECHron, fuel injector cleaner and dump it in the tank.
I do not like additives,but this can work, just this one thing,
BTW#2. ,my 91,96 and 97 car run perfectly EGR defeated, CEL on , and EGR errors endless, ran perfectly. so that is why EGR is last, not first (first is expensive to fix)
your EGR mains is NEW, so is not Bad, and if defeated CAN NOT LEAK and make engine misfire. (CAN NOT) for sure you blocking its vacuum hose now .
03-14-2020, 07:58 AM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2020, 11:19 AM by 3Waggintails.)
Once again, I will do my best to answer your questions:
1. I posted picture of my tps on the answer to the temperature sensor throttle body post but will post here.
2. When car loses power it does catch up with a little more throttle/foot pressure. I never have to floor it to make it recover. Just a little more pressure.
3. They claimed to have checked fuel pressure, timing, vacum. Cant speak for compression.
4. Engine only bogs hot but not consistenetly. You can drive til reaches operating temp a few miles - say 3-5 miles. The the bog starts. After 3-5 more miles it stops and I can drive 15 with no more issues. Havent had had chnace to drive further. Also, after the bogging, if engine cools 15-20 minutes and you drive again, once guage at operating doesnt do again. The only consistent symptom is the "hiccup" at idle when you stop at a light, stop sign, etc. Idles smooth then a little hiccup, smooth hiccup...you can see it if you stand in front of motor.
5. The engine appeared to be idling at 800 or so after they had initially corrected my throttle body mess up by
fooling with the black plastic screw on top of the throttle body. But would often drop to 500 if you continued sitting idling.
6. Yes on full power at at 45 mph. Has full power after short hsitation and the gradually inclining roads around here. I have never had to floor it or go all out....just gradual little pressure on gas pedal and goes fine.
They cleaned all ports etc when took off intake manifold. new gaskets etc. It was expensive! The biggest part of the $1025 bill.
Just got info back on research. The part number on my big fat TPS is TS60 -6 and underneath that 5301
I did purchase a throttle body off ebay that was from a 98 Tracker, 16 v, MT, 2wd - same as me except 2dr and I am 4 dr. It had the smaller TPS seen on left and was same as one from Advance. Advance shows what looks like mine CONFIRMED and sent to me by Mikuni a few minutes ago. So it appears I may have had a 95 throttle body which is insane. Bone stock car I got at 60k mikes from estate of older couple. I dont think it was ever swapped by anyone.
Mechanic shop is swapping the throttle body and correct TPS as we speak. Worth a shot? I am desperate. Discussed closed loop with them, etc. They will see. Said will check.
I checked parts pages did not see the TPS stuff!!! Sorry. You have direct link? I am really confused now at how this happen.
UPDATE:
Mechanic shop called while I was responding to your post and said they had swapped the throttle bodies and TPS's. Said car was running great, driven lots, going to drive more etc. About an hour later they called and said "IT'S DOING THE SAME THING!" bogging, etc. So they have left it up to me over the weekend to decide what I wnat them to do.
I am going to try and give you a better time line and series of events to what happened to maybe it will help us both further. First let me say, there was NOTHING wrong the car and the way it ran. NO ISSUES, no bogging no nothing. I was taking care of routine maintenance things that I could not previously afford (time and $$).
1. In April 2019 I had the following done: PCV valve replaced, new crank position sensor (it was in a pkg/ket I had bought with engine seals etc., timing belt replaced, can and crank seals replaced, water pump replaced, oil pressure switch replaced, new hoses, thermostat replaced (yes correct with rubber seal - YOU HELPED ME WITH THAT ONE!), new air filter and new belts.
2. I got new tires and wanted alignment. Was told steering eeer box needed replacement, front struts bad, front lower control arm bushings. ALL done. I also asked to check oil leak and it was distributor o rings. FIXED. Also had bad muffler (I did that one), I asked to scan car just see why CEL on (for almst 4 years). Came back with upstream O2 and PO400. So I decided to replace both O2 sensors and they checked the EGR and said EGR and Switch and Modulator good. They could not get upstream O2 sensor out so told me to take to exhaust shop. I figured po400 stayed on because of front O2 still not replaced.
3. Took to exhaust shop and they couldnt get the front O2 out so created a BUNG hole in the downpipe between the manifold and the cat and installed the upstream O2 there. Cleared codes. I drove 2-3 days, code popped again. But no driveability issues. Was fine.
4. So I decided to replace EGR, EGR switch and modulator - finish the job get rid of code! I also wanted the all the vacum lines replaces just BECAUSE they are 23 years old. That was not done. *****THIS IS WHEN THE hicccup began at idle and I happened to pay attention to the rpms at idle which was about 500. No driveability issue, hesitation or bogging...nothing but hiccup at idle. (this was 2/3/20)
5. On 2/10/20 is when I apparently got bad gas as that is first time experienced the bogging. I was 20 miles from home and it started on interstate. I got off and went to Advance to scan - only PO400. I put Heat additive in tank thinking my symptoms were bad gas. Drove 10 miles issue cleared up. On 2/11/20, I took to shop to have smoke tested due to PO400 still on and to have check fuel filter cuz suspected bad gas. Smoke good. Only place came out was air box - told me normal. The cleaned the MAF at that time at my request.
This is when tank drained and "wiped" clean, new fuel pump, screen/strainer, fuel filter and gas cap installed. I also decided to have them do plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor as had not been done in my ownership - prbably ever.
Hiccup continued at idle only with idle at 500.
6.. I drove car approximately 1 week and suddenly, the bogging started again at 20-25 mph instead of the 65-70 mph on the interstae a week before. It cleared up as I stated. Little heavier pressure on gas pedal and goes! Drove it several times in order to figure out it did not happen cold or before being at operating temp for 3-5 miles or so. Also found out it pretty much went away after driving another 3-5 miles. Still idles at 500 when stopped at stop, light, etc.
7. My mechnaic slammed so found other shop that will work on older cars. took there 2/21/20. They kept for a week. The replaced IAT and ECT sensors, disassembled intake manifold and cleaned, replaced intake gaskets. DID NOT SOLVE ANYTHING. Did exactly same - $1025 worth of labor and small $$$ of that for parts. Got car back on 2/28/20.
8. Took car back on 3/4/20 and they spposedly found two vacum lines swapped they did wrong, checked plug gap and gapped correctly (other shop no gap just slapped em in - i WATCHED! i THOUGHT THEY KNEW SOMETHING i DIDNT), CHECKED TIMING. Not sure if anything else. Next I know, they said maybe MAF. I waited for confirmation so I could order. Nope...said TPS. I asked if they checked it with meter or whatever and sure it was bad? I was told yes. Not case. Was told today they just thought symptoms of TPS so....
9. Today, 3/13/20 Because I had this throttle body and new TPS (which both should have been correct for this car) and we could not locate the correct TPS, decided to try swapping the throttle bodies/TPS to correct. NOPE!!! Ran good then started the bogging same as before. No better.
****So they called and left decision to me (too late, closing so be done Monday) - Leave new throtle body and TPS or put back way was? I think put back but pends your recommendation and what they gonna charge to put back way was, too. I AM SPENT!!!
03-15-2020, 02:12 AM (This post was last modified: 03-15-2020, 02:19 AM by fixkick.)
I will answer in LINE:
Mechanic shop called while I was responding to your post and said they had swapped the throttle bodies and TPS's. Said car was running great, driven lots, going to drive more etc. About an hour later they called and said "IT'S DOING THE SAME THING!" bogging, etc. (no NOT BOGGING if not BOGGING WOT that is HESITATION only.
So they have left it up to me over the weekend to decide what I want them to do. (well gee fix that hesitation?) they seem so MPI incompentent to me , all cars are MPI what is their problem, your car is SUPER common, in the technical sense, ever try fix cards with 12 computer , wow, that is hard, but NOT THIS CAR.. IMO
A new TB = throttle body is over $1300 at suzuki, and on ebay rare as chicken lips,, in fact 1 there is for 95 and sold as 1998 WRONG NOW.
I am going to try and give you a better time line and series of events to what happened to maybe it will help us both further. First let me say, there was NOTHING wrong the car and the way it ran. NO ISSUES, no bogging no nothing. I was taking care of routine maintenance things that I could not previously afford (time and $$).
1. In April 2019 I had the following done: PCV valve replaced, new crank position sensor (it was in a pkg/ket I had bought with engine seals etc., timing belt replaced, cam and crank seals replaced, water pump replaced, oil pressure switch replaced, new hoses, thermostat replaced (yes correct with rubber seal - YOU HELPED ME WITH THAT ONE!), new air filter and new belts. ALL GOOD
2. I got new tires and wanted alignment. Was told steering eeer box needed replacement, front struts bad, front lower control arm bushings. ALL done. I also asked to check oil leak and it was distributor o rings. FIXED. Also had bad muffler (I did that one), I asked to scan car just see why CEL on (for almost 4 years). Came back with upstream O2 and PO400.
you saw that or they only Report the 1 error, OBD2 can spit out 25 errors, stored
So I decided to replace both O2 sensors and they checked the EGR and said EGR and Switch and Modulator good. They could not get upstream O2 sensor out so told me to take to exhaust shop. I figured po400 stayed on because of front O2 still not replaced. (NO in fact this bad 02, means EGR tests FAIL (false Positives this) In fact you can drive and let p0400 just happen and see if car runs right, and you said it did not so,,,, needs work.
3. Took to exhaust shop and they couldn't get the front O2 out so created a BUNG hole in the down-pipe between the manifold and the cat and installed the upstream O2 there. Cleared codes. I drove 2-3 days, code popped again. But no drive-ability issues. Was fine.
This was done wrong, I told you all G16 crack #4 header, tube, rear, all do, 99%? not looking there first, bad.. THe correct O2 must be installed, use only BOSCH sensor listed on my page. 4 wire only, with 4 pin connector The sensor can not work if there are cracks anywhere near it CAN NOT all EFI MPI shops worth salt know this fact, (THE OL error , cruising or at idle proves this !
4. So I decided to replace EGR, EGR switch and modulator - finish the job get rid of code! I also wanted the all the vacum lines replaces just BECAUSE they are 23 years old. That was not done. *****THIS IS WHEN THE hicccup began at idle and I happened to pay attention to the rpm at idle which was about 500. No drive-ability issue, hesitation or bogging...nothing but hiccup at idle. (this was 2/3/20) what you mean is 500 RPM misfire, no G16 runs at 500 rpm AND NOT MISFIRE, back firiing firing Muffler or backfiring to TB is bad timing.
(well this was done wrong or is JUST Coincidental?) hoses wrong is so eash see that 2 tube egr metal pipe there, super easy wrong there. as is adding new parts wrong, nobody sells that modulator so is it off some Toyota> your old one is good, just clean the vent not ever change out the mOD.
sure a new MAIN EGR is good, to replace at 100k miles. 500 RPM means EGR stuck open (or fueling is bad or spark bad) 3 thing , and 4 bad engine but is not bad engine.
800 RPM Hot, is normal , 1000 cold or 1500 colder is NORMAL, all else is NOT NORMAL.
5. On 2/10/20 is when I apparently got bad gas as that is first time experienced the bogging. I was 20 miles from home and it started on interstate. well not apparently, it is fact, you said water and rust fell out of filter, so I never LiES...
I got off and went to Advance to scan - only PO400. I put Heat additive in tank thinking my symptoms were bad gas. Drove 10 miles issue cleared up. On 2/11/20, I took to shop to have smoke tested due to PO400 still on and to have check fuel filter cuz suspected bad gas. Smoke good. Only place came out was air box - told me normal. The cleaned the MAF at that time at my request.
the smoke test not for EGR, , but sure finds vacuum leaks... that and that only. DEFEAT The EGR and test the car, the EGR main will stay closed for ever like that and P0400 forever. forget EGR fix all ELSE FIRST ,and MISFIRING G16 will make the EGR MAP lie and tell you EGR is Bad and IS NOT.. ok> forget the EGR, until (LAST LAST LAST)
This is when tank drained and "wiped" clean, new fuel pump, screen/strainer, fuel filter and gas cap installed. I also decided to have them do plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor as had not been done in my ownership - probably ever.
Hiccup continued at idle only with idle at 500. (you mean I am sure MISFIRE< and given all the above RICH misfires SO BAD RPM falls 300RPM to 500 RPM, super bad MISFIRE.
6.. I drove car approximately 1 week and suddenly, the bogging started again at 20-25 mph instead of the 65-70 mph on the interstate a week before. It cleared up as I stated. Little heavier pressure on gas pedal and goes! (GOOD full power say has full power WOT) ok?
Drove it several times in order to figure out it did not happen cold or before being at operating temp for 3-5 miles or so. Also found out it pretty much went away after driving another 3-5 miles. Still idles at 500 when stopped at stop, light, etc. The ISC can stick , hell all do. in time, THE ISC in mounted front of TB mounted to left side of plenum air box, intake manifold, it can be cleaned easy, with carb cleaner,etc we should just diagnose the 500 RPM this works best.
7. My mechnaic slammed (stumped) so found other shop that will work on older cars. took there 2/21/20. They kept for a week. The replaced IAT and ECT sensors, disassembled intake manifold and cleaned, replaced intake gaskets. DID NOT SOLVE ANYTHING. Did exactly same - $1025 worth of labor and small $$$ of that for parts. Got car back on 2/28/20. they seem to be EGR centric, and only tried to fix that, ? was EGR the complaint to them or low IDLE HOT?>?
8. Took car back on 3/4/20 and they supposedly found two vacuum lines swapped they did wrong,(wow) checked plug gap and gapped correctly (other shop no gap just slapped em in - i WATCHED! i THOUGHT THEY KNEW SOMETHING i DIDNT), (yep DERPs they are, this car has weak low energy spark not like 2000 cars . 0.028" is correct NGK set them in the automated machine at 0.045" and will misfire that way, BAD BAD BAD...
CHECKED TIMING. Not sure if anything else. Next I know, they said maybe MAF. (yes, it works at idle, if dead DTC sets if weak not) we test it with voltmeter in 5min flat at idle it reads (per the FSM btw and free to look at in post #1 sticky) here is the volts. 1.0–1.6 volts. at keyon nostart , at idle , and 1.7–2.0 volts) at IDLE, if not bad maf or just dirty.
I waited for confirmation so I could order. Nope...said TPS. I asked if they checked it with meter or whatever and sure it was bad? I was told yes. Not case. Was told today they just thought symptoms of TPS so.... yes TPS fails, for hesitation driving, not WOT< the TPS never makes WOT 95HP fail ever only TIP IN acceleration and never WOT power,loss, ever. ok./ yes mAF fail and are $1000 a SUZUKI real,. after market less, far less, but I never just throw one on, at that cost, no really, when you gun the throttle the maf can hit 3vdc or more on the OUTPUT pin, see link above the tests are so easy, its DC analog voltage simple not FORD PWM magic hear.
9. Today, 3/13/20 Because I had this throttle body and new TPS (which both should have been correct for this car) and we could not locate the correct TPS, decided to try swapping the throttle bodies/TPS to correct. NOPE!!! Ran good then started the bogging same as before. No better. (idle RPM or hesitation or WOT BOGGING???? what still fails)
well you said up top, the mech replace the TB and used the wrong year TB didnt he. no better and stop saying BOGGING please, bogging is WOT power lost, ok, BOGGING is like pulling a 10,0oo pound trailer of brakes, you have simple hesitating.. now the bad news, if you faild to set the TPS calibation like in line 1 above gee, that too causes hesitation (tip in throttle only not wot)
there are 2 ways to fails calibration (feeler gauges, my page on TPS shows the runs on all sidekicks made) so hear me out try to learn this 1: TPS set wrong and idle switch dead (open circuit foot offf throttle) ISC goes dead, gee that kill hot idle dead, wow, not good 2: TPS set so idle switch opens too late, (hot idle ok, ISC works) and then you move right foot, the ECU then fights you, with ISC , after all it sees idle switch closed, oops set wrong
your calibration step is .026" this is the feeler gauge setting shown here, and how to do it end to end and FSM quotes. SEE THIS PAGE NOW, for calibrate TPS...[/url] now see this a bad TPS set right will cause hesitation a 100 new TPS calibrated wrong, will cause hesitation. read that 2 times.
new cars now use auto calibration, TPS your car is NOT NEW< tell the DERPS this is 1996-98 not 2004.. ok..
****So they called and left decision to me (too late, closing so be done Monday) -
Leave new throttle body and TPS or put back way was? (wow a $1300 new TB really, where did you find that?// RARE AS HELL THOSE) But rebuilder, CARDONE has them too
I think put back but pends your recommendation and what they gonna charge to put back way was, too. I AM SPENT!!!
That is what happens changing parts not bad, you do it wrong and is not 2 or 3 things wrong not 1. guessing does that, seems that is all do in your shops...
How to proceed from here????
well why not diagnose the problems first. and not guess.. guessing is mess, some get lucky most do not.
ok what I do is not same as others, mine , I have many cars and motorcycles here so down time not an issue for me ever, for 55 years driving, yah
I test then engine and sure smoke test it,sure...
but spark new , compression good, new cam belt, and bad hoses sure, spark timing set with timing freeze jumper in place. -5DEG BTDC? hood sticker tells you.
ok spark good engine good. vacuum solid.. 800 RPM checked..
RPM wrong, what then?, (i clean the ISC electric valve first) this device is what causes 800 to HAPPEN and must not be dead /stuck or packed up with GUNK ever.
I make sure EGR main is closed, if closed IT IS NOT YOURS, THE EGR CAUSING LOW 500 RPM not ever.. if closed, and yours is new..
I see hear engine misfire?, at 500 well sure it will EFI hates 500 RPM as does MAP sensor ! hot, engine tests only.. 500 RPM is fix me first thing, on this CAR
I then raise, idle by hand to 800 RPM, OMG the misfire ended, good , if not injections bad, (fueling ) or spark bad.. more test. more tests not guessing.
see how easy that test is above, line???????????
still misfires, darn.
i put my timing light on the 4 plug wires 1 by 1, at force 800 rpm by hand missing, do I see 1 wire shows blinking timing light shows misfire, NO then it is fueling wrong (rich i bet)
blink blink miss, blink (this is bad,) seen on any timing light, (so easy to do at spark wires with inductive clip of tool)
I gander at my SCAN tool dang the OL status stuck there, does CL open loop happen now if you force 800rpm, by hand if misfiring no 02 works right, not really,
I push pending button on the scan tool and wow more codes,? there (forget 400s see others first) tell me them
I check fuel pressure keyon and idle , pass fail.
pass. (if fail fix that next FIRST ) bad fuel pressure is always a fix first event, called Basics.
is the O2 dead? scanned..
I scan loop test the front 02, rear is useless here) my tool as O2 meter mode, creates at 02 scope view to see SWINGS.
The sensor 02 must swing and show 0.1 to near 0.9v signals, if not?, the O2 is dead, (or exhaust cracks near by O2 front)
The ASE classes tell you now try to force this rich running engine lean ( using the magic trick cause vacuum leak on purpose now, this act causes LEAN as you do that you .
on this car the tiny vacuum lines at the plenum box front are prime targets to pull and cause small vacuum leak. (intake manifold front plenum box)
see if the O2 scans show the 02 wake up?, if not 02 is bad. or engine so rich (AFR) that we are doomed, (example leaking injectors are fuel pressure 60psi dead dead WRONG)
the goal is not EGR, forget EGR , they sell these cars with nO EGR at all on some islands ? JDM versions. (if you keep it closed that main valve this is not your problems)
but the goal is get 800rpm to happen... here is the list.
spark is bad 1 to 4 or all 4. misfire from bad spark, or timed wrong.
the ISC is dead or the TPS idle switch dead or set wrong..
the engine is rich misfiring, (lots of reasons..) and tests
the engine is lean and runs slow at idle, not common but vacuum leaks huge, no was smoke tested
injectors clogged, WOT only , your car, passes so can only be rich misfire...
leaking injectors there is leak down test in the FSM. 96 free ,post 1. fueling.
my guess the front 02 is dead, now. i test it fully. Find out why it is dead, misifire gross can do that..
first clean the ISC (remove it clean it, it must never be dead nor stuck closed, and air must flow opened) [url=https://fixkick.com/sensors/tests/IAC-E-tests.html]then calibrate the TPS you mech is clueless about that I guess.
find cause of 500rpm, this is first order symptoms,,
see if idle misfire goes away if hand moved throttle valve causes 800 rpm now, and misfire ends , does it?, this is key fact here.
500 RPM is caused by dead ISC (TPS calibration) or fueling wrong if spark is ok.
this is the path to work. IMO. good luck !!! This is how i do this, how you do it or 3rd party, IDK..
03-15-2020, 02:21 AM (This post was last modified: 03-15-2020, 02:24 AM by fixkick.)
if you can post OBD2 scan tool data, scanned sensor data, fully, at 40mph cruise hot engine. ( A 2 PERSON TEST SAFE, OR A TOOL THAT LOGS, 1 PERSON)
not just DTC errors
and use pending mode of the tool, all good tools have this.. USE IT OR WORK BLIND , NOT FUN THAT..
im pretty sure that moved O2 is dead, but , data does not lie..... and I always look at all live data aND ALL PENDINGS
MAke sure at easy cruise, the O2 front goes CL, closed loop not OL ....
not open loop all the time, ever, hot engine (hot means normal 180f fully normal hot engine)
( said more simply)
500 rpm, is wrong, hot. dead wrong. only lots of causes, there is not be only one cause , there are many
nut shell physics:
engine bad, (no yours not if compression is ok 195PSI) but basics are this, we check basics first, the raw engine is not bad , and pumps air ok,
bad spark cause misfire, you engine misfires, so bad spark, this too is basics, or timed wrong.
egr stuck open your is not.
now we get to fueling rates, this is called advance EFI testing.
sensors read wrong, no just the O2 reads wrong and CL is dead..
leaving what bad fueling..
called actuator testing.
The ISC must work, of idle controls are dead, and idle is wrong.
the TPS must be calibrated or ISC will be dead... (sure can be, ) the PCM may warn , TPS errors. if lucky. if the tps is dead or idle switch stuck it will. DTC
03-15-2020, 03:37 PM (This post was last modified: 03-15-2020, 03:56 PM by 3Waggintails.)
Thank you so much for your response. I appreciate all of your experience and information but it is so overwhelming for me. You take a lot of time in doing what you do and it is a great service that you provide to the community. Because of your knowledge, I want to get the best clearest easiest for me to understand response. I can only tell you at best what is....try to describe what is happening has happened and in what order things happened.
I just want to make a few things clear for the record. They probably won't make much difference but I want the record to be straight for the person reading this thread so more confusion is not added to a terrible situiation. Maybe someone , especially inexperienced male or female, can learn from this too.
I am not one of these guys that knows and understands all of this stuff about cars. I am an older woman who knows something about cars and can do some simple things like oil chnages, changing hoses, etc. I do not have the tools and equipment nor the knowledge to do more involved work or I would. Sadly, I have to rely on others who are supposed to know or advertise that they know and represent themselves as experienced mechanics. I am at the mercy of these people.
I am not ignorant and I try to research and learn and understand and know enough to ask questions or challenge something but don't have enough knowledge to know what is wrong and tell them what to fix. I can only tell them the symptoms and hope that they understand and can replicate and know what the hell they are doing and find it and fix it.
I agree. Many or most of these are not a Sidekick issue only. Its basic and can occur with most vehicles. So I dont understand why they cant find it or fix it. I am not told what they have done and the results unless I literally go get in their face and ask point blank. Phone call gets me NOTHING.
For many these cars are toys or a hobby. I have probably owned 15 Sidekicks and Trackers from an 89 to a 98 and have never had this issue with any of them. I love these cars and feel comfortable with them. This car in particular is basically my sole vehicle, my daily driver. I am on a fixed income and have spent over $5000 recently on this car - mostly in labor for things that needed to be done as I outlined in the previous information. I need and want my car fixed. I am pretty desperate here!
1. I bought this car from an older couple's estate with 60K on the ODO. They bought it new. I have the original sales paperwork and that is about it. I got it in 2015.
I sincerely doubt there was or has been any engine swap etc. How in heck it has a throttle body for a 92-95 model I don't know. I suspect it came that way from manufacturer. You say parts were often used on later cars so..???
This car is/was bone stock - no mods when I got it that I could see. But I am not an expert. That car was like new and ran like new until I messed up and messed with stuff I should have continued to ignore.
Since i have had the car it has NEVER had any issues with idling, running, starting, shifting, nothing. It handled like new. yes, the Service ENGINE LIGHT APPEARED INTERMITTENTLY AT FIRST BUT NEVER ANY HESITATION, MISFIRES, ETC. THEREFORE, I ignored it all this time with no issues. I OPENED a can of worms I should have left alone because I wanted to do the right thing and keep the car running and good as long as possible.
Since I got a little $$$ and was fixing things, I thought I would finally see why the CEL (SERVICE ENGINE SOON - it says) was on. Should have ignored!!!!
Now unless that O2 sensor being placed further down in the down pipe because the old one was stuck in manifold took a while to cause issues, i HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO BLAME FOR THIS STUFF STARTING. THE new EGR, switch and modulator were installed AFTER this O2 sensor was placed in the down pipe.
AND....
It was not UNTIL I had my REGULAR MECHANIC SHOP swap the EGR, MODULATOR and EGR SWITCH that the Hiccup at IDLE started and I happened to notice that RPMS at idle looked to be about 500 RPM. Even still the car idled correctly at start up and gradulaly idled down as it should when reached operating temp. Never a stutter, hiccup or misfire until I switched that EGR, MOD and switch after the O2 sensors replaced.
The gross hesitation/misfiring whatever it is called started/ only occurred INITIALLY with water in gas and cleared up for a week after that was fixed. The only symptom of anything wrong thereafter was the 500 RPM idle w/hiccup (misfire) that had began after the O2 put in downpipe and EGR, switch and MOD replaced with "new" parts. After that week, the hesitatiion (misfire) returned but still corrected with little more pressure on accelerator (WOT you call it?)
I made things worse by messing with the black plastic screw on top of the throttle body to try and adjust idle myself. I did not have to take a cover or plug off to get to this screw. It is black plastic on top of throttle body with phillips flat appearenace. I couldnt get the idle back right or when it appeared I did, it would still end up dropping to the 500 rpm at stops, etc. after driving a few miles. (I told shop I did this too).
Actually, once at operating temp, when I would stop at light or stop sign it would be 1000 maybe 800 -900 then eventually drop to 500 range but NEVER died, etc. The RPMS when driving seemed right in each gear, before shifting etc. (possibly a little high but not sure)
You say misfire -. Whatever it was, it is the only thing that was going on after those O2 and EGR, switch and Mod things were replaced. Even though they said my original parts were good, I still had PO400 code and bought the parts off ebay and had them replace. MY fault for fixing what was not broken. THe car was running and idling fine - to specs before that.
Before all this no problems! 5 years driving with CEL on.
After the water in gas tank issue, MY REGULAR MECHANIC SHOP was slammed (too busy to help me fix fast/soon) so I had to find another shop who would even attempt to fix or work on older cars. It is not my regular shop.
1. I said earlier in this post (I guess you missed or misunderstood) I bought a USED (not new) throttle body off ebay just to have because they are hard to find. It was off a 1998 tracker, 1.6 2wd, 2door. It should have been right for my car. It is not new. I paid $60 for it. I cleaned thoroughly etc. It also came with TPS attached. So I just happened to have it. I never saw my TB off the car or my TPS so I had no way of knowing that the car I have been driving for almost 5 YEARS with no problems had a throttle body off a 92-95 Sidekick. I just know it ran fine all these years with no problems.
You asked or thought I said mechanic replaced the TB and used wrong year....not case. Did not say that.
When we could not find the right TPS anywhere is because I never saw mine and the shop did not know my car had an older throttle body on it. They thought it was for the 97 vehicle that I have. Once I went over and saw the TPS, I thought the USED throttle body I got was wrong. It was really the right one that actually should have been on my 1997 car. Who would have known?
Confusion aside, because we could not find the part (TPS for the TB on my car) because you could see no number and we were ordering for 1997 sidekick, we kept getting wrong part. Once you said it sounded like mine was off a 95 or older and suspected older throttle body that kind of answered the question.
The shop thought just try and swap my throttle body and TPS and install the one I bought USED off ebay and the corresponding TPS to that throttle body as described above. Like I said, they called and told me running good but needed more drive time. With more drive time, all symptoms back. What symptoms back you asked?
As far as symptoms back, they said SUPPOSEDLY did not notice hiccup (misfire) sitting at idle at operating temp, did not state idle RPMS (if correct or low) only said hesitation or bogging WOT. (Guy claimed he now knew when gonna do it and thats why thought symptoms of TPS).
I would hope they know to set/ calibrate and how to set the TPS....OMG!!!
I understand what you are saying about appropriate testing. The shop should know and understand all of this. It sounds lijke guess work and just throwing stuff at problem rather than diagnosing and fixing. I am no mechanic. I cannot prove. I understand the methodical approach of checking things in a particular order based on symptoms and elimanting based on performance/ results. I expect that they should know even better.
In honesty, I dont think they found any leaks at intake, I was having NO problems or issues with the sensors they did replace. They had some green corrosion on them but were functioning as they should. In fact I was going to order them and have them replaced next time at my REGULAR mechanics in order to be proactive. They were not tested by this shop. They were not failing... just saw corrosion and bingo. They had no data /codes to say bad and I had no symptoms related. It was guessing and throwing parts at problem because I still was not told what tests done to determine malfunction/issues.
This shop has told me of no testing done at anytime. I have had to ask questions - like pulling damn teeth. But they have my car and I have paid them $1025 and want them to make right as much as possible. It was not fixed when paid for so they need to fix if I can get them to without more $$$$ paid. Otherwise, I would take my car back to my regular shop but I will pay more $$$$$ that I dont have to try and get fixed. I am over a barrel right now.
If I tick them off, they will probably tell me to come get my car and go to hell. I need to try and be diplomatic when I am trying to tell them they dont know thier butt from a hole in the ground and that I think they are ripping me off! Try and get them to fix as best possible and get back to regular shop if necessary after that. But I wnat my $1025 worth out of this place.
Just let me say that in my tiny mind, I am thinking that I should have left things alone. I am thinking:
A) Put back my old egr, switch and modulator. ***BTW the modulator not off a TOYOTA, it was purchased off ebay. Guy in Colorado has collected quite a few and sells on ebay - USED. I know I replaced a used with a used...his probably no better than mine so I have an extra you can say.
The egr switch is remanufatured switch off ebay and the egr is refurbished from Hwy 83 suzuki in Wisconsin - salvage place that sells on ebay - meaning it was cleaned up and tested, etc. I am poor and even poorer after all this!
B) KILL THE UPSTREAM O2 IN THE DOWN PIPE. THE ORIGINAL IN THE MANIFOLD THAT THEY COULD NOT GET OUT WAS DEAD ANYWAY. IF i HAVE TO, BECAUSE OF THE BUNG HOLE THEY MADE AND PUT THE O2 SENSOR IN BECAUSE ORIGINAL STUCK IN THE MANIFOLD, REPLACE THE DOWN PIPE AND JUST DO WITHOUT THE O2. IT WAS NOT WORKING ANYWAY. MAYBE CUT THE CAT OUT TOO. I did that on my 1998 tracker because I didn't have $$$$ for new cat so my ex-husband and I cut out and straight piped from down pipe to muffler. NEVER a CEL. Never a misfire, never a problem.
C) Definitely have them put back throttle body/TPS originally on my car (not one on there now they just put on that I bought off EBay)
This maybe wrong thing to do but at least if I go back to square one - where things were before the "misfire" at idle, some confusion can be eliminated.
OR scenario 2:
1. Have this mechanic shop put my original Throttle body and TPS back on the car. They did not test just thought symptoms seemed like TPS symptoms - I asked.
2. Put old EGR, switch and MOD back on AND
Insist that they check the timing, do vacum test, do fuel pressure test, etc? Should I get them to do back pressure test/ I asked iniatially 2 times and never done. I am concerned about cat , etc as well. Could be any issue here?
No compression test done that I know of.
Have them smoke test? What would they be looking for or seeing here since other shop did and found nothing before? Just trying to understand.
3. What can I do about that O2 in down pipe? Disconnect? Are you saying it may be leaking around it or its not reading right because relocated? If so, I can only see replacing downpipe to elimante hole the O2 sensor now in.
I cannot speak for any crack in the exhaust manifold. If there is one I am not aware and I had no issues/ problems etc before this fiasco with EGR stuff and O2 sensors. I dont doubt you. I only know what I know.
I HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH MISFIRE< IDLE< NOTHING....Ran great, idled great, etc until I stupidly decided to scan car becausse of CEL on 4 years with NO PROBLEMS and fix what was not broken.
In this case, I can only see replacing downpipe and doing without the O2. It was dead anyway all this time with no driveability issues, no missfires, nothing.
THE CAR HAS NEVER BACKFIRED (If you mean sounded like a popping/gun shot out the muffler ? NEVER
NEVER any predetonation or whtever you call it when you turn ignition switch and keeps running a little then finally dies out . NEVER.
If that manifold is cracked there, can it be repaired? Welded? I surely cannot afford to by some after market thing and there are no replacements that are not used otherwise are there?
My thoughts are to put back at orignal state before this crap started and see how performs and then start the APPRoPRIATE testing based on what is doing once back to where it was before I changed things I shouild have left alone.
Would you agree with this approach?
You asked if my complaint was EGR or low idle Hot when I took to this shop? I told them all that had been done, told still had PO400 code, told symptoms of misfire at operating temp after driving 3-5 miles, told RPMS showing low on guage my hiccup/stutter (Misfire) when sitting at idle and when that seemed to have started. I heard nothing from them after them having it 3 days and sent your info about cleaning all intake passages etc as related to egr and suddenly they seemed to run with that. Got chared a ton for nothing. Meaning obviously problem not resolved.
Either way, since I dont have the car I cant take pics of motor, cant drive, etc. until Monday. I will try and get and send you to see motor for sure. Will that help you confirm motor? I know 16 valve - all I know for sure now. Know it SHOULD BE a 1997 motor or late 96 but....
All this being said, MORE QUESTIONS:
I cannot look in person to see my own ISC and or IAC. Do I have both?
When you say "TIP in acceleration" what does TIP mean?
What does TIP in throttle only not WOT mean?
Is the idle switch the ISC?
so you are saying EGR would never cause low 500 RPM ever. Just golf tee damn thing for now - correct? That seems clear.
How do you raise idle by hand?
Well obviously they dont know or do basics. I dont know what the ____ they do or know. Surely they have scanners....Big shop.
Can any of that data be printed out? freeze frame stuff, etc?
I can say this, I wish I knew where you were located and could bring you my car. I would gladly do so in a heartbeat!!!!
03-15-2020, 09:20 PM (This post was last modified: 03-15-2020, 10:58 PM by fixkick.)
ok, you drove it for years with CEL glowing , P0400, see car runs perfectly like that, see? might need high octane fuel to not PING tiny bit sure..
the 500RPM is very serious, matter,!
no you did not understand me on EGR, these old cars LOVE to fail EGR, and yours is new not old (main) the EGR, on old car and old EGR love to STICK open at stops signals.
you roll to a stop foot off gas pedal and the ECU commands EGR closed now, and it STICKS open and engine shakes real hard, (like a wet dog "misfiring horribly) and and 400 RPM is possible now and pr stalls stalls easy now.
when I say main that that means the huge heavy, EGR main on rear of intake running #4 , way way in back of engine. OK?
no that is not your cause, YOUR EGR MAIN is new, and it DOES NOT STICK, the EGR closes because the EBAY VSV cuts vacuum to it, and closes, that is why I told you do defeat the EGR main so the bad EBAY parts can't keep it open , see? then go drive for 4more years CEL glowing and no problems.. LOL
EGR CUT (commanded off) at Idle switch closed(TPS) , Idle EGR vacuum TB port blocked, VSV turned off, at idle and at WOt EGR is cut off.
The TPS idle switch dead makes the ISC dead, but not the EGR because of 2 other reasons stated in line just above/
if the TPS idle switch never was calibrated and stuck open there will be NO ISC (controls) ISC means IDLE SPEED CONTROL (a ASE standard name) dead.. ISC means idle is OUT OF CONTROL by logic and facts, that is why most shops get this wrong, and can not read the FSM , on how to do it, they are to busy making money to read....(sarc.. off)
the idle switch is inside the TPS, on all sidekicks G16 .
the ECU + ISC control hot idle speeds at all times, , the bleed screw you messed with , sets ISC duty cycle NOT RPM,
if you find that the bleed screw (missing black dust cap now) is turned and hot idle speeds change that means ISC is bad or OFFLINE..
TIP-in throttle, when you are driving and you move the right toe, and tip the pedal fast that is TIP-IN , acceleration request by you and TPS tells ECU you did that and ECU then goes to magic Enrich mode, (or if not the engine bogs a bit, better word, hesitation) this happens and ends when the MAF catches up to air flows and fuel mixtures recover ,and Enrich mode ends in seconds..
if you DO WOT< (aka pedal to the metal) wide open throttle (TPS signals) the ECU goes to WOT mode, runs rich at about 12:1 AFR air to fuel ratio and 95HP happens NOW
WOT also ends all EGR actions (VSV from Ebay closes)
You do know parts on EBAY are used, even older far older than your car or miles,or just plane wrong! /bad etc, , you do know that right?
here is correct part. the 60B00 number there is SUZUKI, and not there on one of millions of Toyota that look same but are NOT THE SAME AT ALL.. 18112-60b00 95-98
PRE 95 IS ENDS IN 55a00 CODE.. WHAT ARE YOUR NUMBERS.?
The 500 RPM is all wrong, if the engine misfires at 500 ( I CANT hear it do that) but if does that mostly normal due to 500 RPM is a for SURE ILLEGAL RPM,
in the sense that the MAF does no work at 500 well nor does other things in the EFI system nor vacuum in proper range. etc .etc.
what matters is how it GOT TO 500 RPM in the first place. to SEE THAT we USER our RIGHT HAND and raise the TV cable lever on the TB and raise the throttle Valve (TV) by hand
go attain 800 RPM by HAnd THE HARD WAY, IF This works as it must we then note not (listen and look) to see if 800 RPM is smooth and not misfiring,
500 RPM is not caused by EGR, if you simple defeat your brand new , EGR MAIN, gee did you buy EGR that is for 1995 and Calif version with the EGRT sensor removed and the EGR
is sucking air in that very missing EGR EGRT screw in port, and now the MAF cant do its job, due to you letting this huge air suck in at the EGR main,. sorry cant see your EGR no can do. see ISC here..
500 RPM causes.. more simple?
a new EGR on a good engine (passes compression tests ) are.: (egr defeated with GOLF tee'd vacuum line pulled, EGR is now closed and no way possible now to leak exhaust ever.
Engine misfiring, for any reasons, bad fuel in tank , bad spark, timed wrong, or bad fueling rates (injections rates all wrong for this RPM !,) (we find this first if true)
CAT ,melted, is not it, engine you said has full power at WOT, so CAT IS NOT A wreck , so we can skip this CAT failure.
TPS not calibrated just thrown on, and now TPS idle switch is dead , and for that error ISC is now dead . 100% dead..
ISC dead, or is stuck, yes they stick as often as EGR, due to EGA-PCV gasses from GUNK that gets inside the ISC and packs it up with gunk ,I simple clean it and bench test it and put it a bad on the plenum box
MAF weak, (easy tests see maf test on my fixkick.com page, type maf tests in the search box and bingo.
huge vacuum leaks can render the ISC DEAD OR , can render it ineffective but you passed the smoke test. so not this..
a good mechanic knows that and knows how to diagnose misfire, and rich AFR, or all causes of Misfire, he needs to know how to diagnose all that. or fails.. They failed you, sure.
this is ISC, clear as day, and is electric modulated Air value (solenoid air valve ) that modulates 200 times a second. The ECU does that modulation magic.
the Idle switch must be closed or this below is dead. (hot idle closed)
here is the factory page on TPS tests (calibration is other pages in the manual using a meter and 1 feeler gauge)
see pin 2 that is IDLE switch only
on a hot running engine, pin 2 is 0vdc volts DC if not idle switch is failing, (or set wrong) or TV plate packed up in GUNK, blocking full TV closure.
if pin 2 reads 5 vdc hot idle that is WRONG ! AT IDLE HOT, 95 is same as 96 up in this regard , how do you like my schematic I added, for CLARITY.
The TPS is 2 things not one, it is the switch and the resistor side (POT) is THROTTLE ANGLE (new names that)
the spot to do CALIBRATION BELOW is at the nEver ever touch me screw (aka.. idle stop screw , factory set for ever) 0.026" gauge, tool and fiddle only TPS screws.
see that nut below that is a JAM nut do not touch it ever. never loosen it ever. ok?
i USES .001" AND .025" BLADE STACKED, and inserted in the throttle stop gap, below and then release the TV and set the TPS so the idle switch just closes electrically
if done correctly the idle switch works perfectly every time, and then the ISC goes ONLINE and works too if it is not stuck that is.
500 RPM is cause by , 2 things, mostly , gross misfiring simply a dead ISC.. ( not all things consider just your things, due to tests and EGR defeated ,,etc)
the ISC can stick , or idle switch dead making ISC dead.
the test above, by playing with the dont touch idle bleed screw (black cap missing) is ok now to play that screw air bleeder is IDLE DUTY cycle setting NOT IDLE SPEED
but now that that as messed up (DUTY) you can now play with it, (count turns now)
logic, hot engine, hot idle 500 rpm.. wrong ,dead wrong !
logic, turn the screw CCW counter clock wise , more air.. if engine RPM rises that means ISC IS DEAD.. hard cold prove and needs to be corrected
photo off my DUTY setting page
ON the TB the TV is inside, 1996 mine. 2door 4wd, 5sp rag top
mod to left
ISC to right lower..
egr port top center of TB. (no vacuum there at idle, called EGR ported vacuum nipple here)
when buying parts on ebay learn that many part are old and bad or just plain wrong, endless that, I buy them 3 times just to get one correct and good part.
suzuki sells these parts, in many cases only they have them new. only the price is high.(only)
the sad part of all this is not just replacing EGR main and defeating, it then fixing the real problems, P0400 , all during all testing, all the time igrored, fully. until (EGR must work later and last of ALL THINGS,)
add more bad parts guessing is never going to be easy , cheaper or, fun.. not ever. (or will compound problems, making simple cause hard to find and prove, adding bad parts to was good parts before)
sure a mechanic in real shop by other rules ( they use new parts not used)
he sees ISC dead, trashes it and finds new one and sees it fails too.
so finds TPS bad (pin2 at 5v), replaces it sees it still fails, then find out (omg read the manual) it needs to be calibrated, to get idle switch working ( 1997 sorry no TPS auto-cal BACK Then)
then he fixes that and ISC is still dead. (means 800rpm impossible)gets 500 hard fail. still. dang, this is hard.
I finds out.. signals to ISC are dead no 200Hz square wave and ECU is bad. (man has scope and knows how to use it, wow)
or finds That ok, but maf is dead (or super weak or even intermittent but gee my MAF page covers that.... fully and with FSM backup and real testing to prove all that.
or vacuum leaks huge and that makes very lean burn and results in a low RPM. (no air/vacuum leaks from MAF to intake valves, are bad leaks)
MAF is a huge leak it self but is metered air if maf is dirty it lies and report low air and engine goes max lean. (and your O2 is dead so it is no help to correct any weak MAF)
The TV is not a air leak it is closed at idle 99.99% closed.
on a normal engine the only leaks are, metered air, (means maf measured) MASS AIR FLOW sensor it is, (the PCM computes injection rates from all MAF readings even at idle)
the only valid leaks are HOT ENGINE ISC and bleed, (and some nasty air from PCV valve) EGR is closed and defeated now if wise, put EGR back online when all else is ok.
air leak = vacuum leaks, , same.. some are normal others not.
the goal of the system is get all air flows , going only through the MAF and never any place else or the AFR air fuel ratio can go lean for sure O2 dead..
hope that helps you in some small way. good luck to you, sorry the shops cant fix idle.
if engine misfires ,make them fix that, and idle wrong.. hot idle is 800, 750 is low spec, high spec it 850 , AC off.
if AC on it's 1000RPM if you turn on AC and 1000 hot RPM is wrong then
ISC is dead... as a door nail
if true we do more tests, that is how this works, find what fails , then why and correct why.
03-15-2020, 11:06 PM (This post was last modified: 03-15-2020, 11:30 PM by fixkick.)
here is the magic TPS calibration on 96-98
from the FSM direct
the tricky part is getting access to the TV stop screw and putting the feeler gauge there !
the test is 3 steps, GO, NOGO and Calibration gauged. (called feeler gauges) a skilled mech can do this with just the CAL gauge, 0.026" or 0.66mm
This is just calibrating the Idle switch the throttle angle side needs no such thing ever.
failure to align the index pins is a horror. see A and B below..
connector pin 1 is bottom pin, counts up. 1,2,3,4,
the TPS was shrunk from 96 to 97 years, Suzuki real car did it first then GM GEO later, 1997, buy carefully or get the wrong TPS.. do not buy them used.
I like USA SMP brand sensors best, (they even answer email on their site, amazing folks and has omg real catalogs ecat....)
if done wrong idle switch is stuck open and ISC goes DEAD.
any dirt cheap $10 DMM works here, even from mighty WALfart! Wallys world.
last and tricky bits #2, the the idle switch is not really a real switch, omg odd, but fact it is a carbon chuck,
so on all mine, open is infinity and is for sure, that. (meter shows OV , OR, or shows megohms. = infinity)
closed is 500 ohms, typical. and never ever 0.... like we know gold real switches are and seen on vast cars, real switches this one is NOT. REAL
the TPS can be set too tight too, let me explain that:
the Idle switch opens too late and the ISC fights the drivers right foot actions off idle, and is perceived by said driver as hesitations, well yah but is really the iSC fighting YOUr FOOT.
the cures is do all calibration steps, hint all 3 gauges and WIN this battle, all in one GO..
tell you mech this car must have the TPs Calibrated by the installer, or the ISC will be dead (idle switch set wrong)
![[Image: EGR-mod-apart2.JPG]](https://fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/modvalve/EGR-mod-apart2.JPG)
![[Image: IAC2w2.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/sensors/sensor-icons/IAC2w2.jpg){kind=icon}
![[Image: 95-TPS-adj1w.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/sensors/95-TPS-adj1w.jpg)
![[Image: Tb-95-a.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/sensors/tests/Tb-95-a.jpg)
![[Image: TB-w1.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/my96-16v/TB-w1.jpg)
![[Image: TPS96-98a.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/sensors/TPS/TPS96-98a.jpg)
![[Image: TPS96-98b.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/sensors/TPS/TPS96-98b.jpg)