Suzuki Swift T3 conversion - engine no start

[t3tom]

Just updating this thread - a 5 second crank test was done and code 41 was the only code returned..

Will be doing additional wiring and component tests later this week.

[fixkick]

Just updating this thread - a 5 second crank test was done and code 41 was the only code returned..

Will be doing additional wiring and component tests later this week.

see the little computer brain does know whats wrong.
41s.
classic.
spark is dead,ecu cuts fuel next and fast
all do that even 2016 cars.
its actually a law,

darn i see this silly forum not sending me emails again, for updates. you did.
i missed the photos back a few pages. ill those now ,with baited breath,,, HiHi

[fixkick]

holy moly.
it's got a ckp too.
it's like have 1991/96 can in usa, cute,
ok got your supplement. this im sure will help, me greatly.

the distrib on the turbo runs a raw wire, cmp, no amps, no hall, just wire, and the signals are tiny, like 1v or less cranking, the faster engine cranks the better, due to Faraday laws on coils
this signal goes to the matching odd duck , ECU and has zero crossing detectors there (very sensitive)
if that fails, id hope for different code.
if the spark fails
my guess, it means the ignition is dead. (it and coil primary
the ECU pulses the ignitor gate (its a huge power transistor, no more) and this transistor turns on for dwell time , then the ECU release it and the coil INDUCTs, sparks.
the primary side of the coil and ignitor is monitored by the ecu.
odd the drawing implies the ignitor is insided the ECU on bolted to it, is this true?

id say bad coil, (spark) bad igniter (where is it) and bad ECU in that order, lacking a scope , very hard to tell.

is coil primary like 10 ohms or less.
and secondary 10,000 ohms , not infinity.
on most suzuki the secondary can be open, and no code 41s, but if the primary is dead, 41s.
41s means on ours, the Drain coil minus pin of coil , ignitor drain, pin, is DEAD. exactly.

or even more simply, the ignitor pin to coil is dead. why is only the new question.

[fixkick]

the Plot thickens and narrows.

good.

[fixkick]

ok 41s are tricky
if the ecu sees 1 pulse in 10 fail, bam 41s , then if corrects, it forgets it saw it.
the book even says, how many turns of crank it takes to get 41s, (so, best to crank for 5sec, and not count turns.)
the 41s are very very tricky if intermediate.
the ecu wants to forget 41s, why, because ITS prime directive is to make spark and if it goofy, it gets confused, if the ignitor is dead, this is easy, hard 41s.

In early days (here) ecu , it models the crank shaft in memory and then syncs it to the engine Sensor. (imagine 2 crank shafts)
they turn is syn, the real crank and modeled crank. that is why it can ignore 1 missing plus. I tries to... (and not make smog)

it's really a good way to do this. on modern cars with live spark , those missing pulses are misfires.

knowing this helps to know that 41s can pop in and out, and are all signs of doom, 41s, are not tolerated by us.. we know its wrong and will get worse.

where is that pesky ignitor ?

[fixkick]

the gif files , under tubo
it flat says IGF pin is monitored by ECU, means 41s.
this ecu monitor the knock sensor,
so all spark is created by ECU, cmp is input, and seems there is CKP too.
ok found a better gif, #34
this covers code 41,
clear as day (mud)?

[fixkick]

your ignitor is not at all like ours.
ours is 3 pins
ground
gate
drain. just a transistor.
not yours, it has the supressor module on board. and the read back voltage network.

[t3tom]

The igniter is located on the firewall. The physical igniter appearance and wiring is a lot like the igniter used on the G13 8v engine used on Suzuki Swifts from 92 to 94.. on Thursday we will be checking for broken or incorrect wiring for the igniter coil ECU dizzy circuits. Also going to check the noise suppressor in case it may be open.

Btw the cranking tests were done multiple times. Same code 41 results each time even after resets.

[t3tom]

A quick question. When I read your page on noise suppressors, can you confirm that a working noise suppressor is essential to engine running for 8v sidekicks (with a 3 wire noise suppressor) and/or the 16v MPFI sidekick (which has a 4 wire Noise suppressor)?

Also is a working noise suppressor only essential to ignition working because the Sidekick ECU design requires a tach input signal to the ECU? The reason I am asking is that it seems that the igniter is responsible for supplying a ground path for the ignition coil - terminal on sidekicks.

[fixkick]

A quick question. When I read your page on noise suppressors, can you confirm that a working noise suppressor is essential to engine running for 8v sidekicks (with a 3 wire noise suppressor) and/or the 16v MPFI sidekick (which has a 4 wire Noise suppressor)?
sure is , unplug it and engine dies in 1sec. for sure. and by law.

Also is a working noise suppressor only essential to ignition working because the Sidekick ECU design requires a tach input signal to the ECU?
The reason I am asking is that it seems that the igniter is responsible for supplying a ground path for the ignition coil - terminal on sidekicks.

Each and every Suzuki made (reall all EFI cars all years)
all cut fuel with the loss of spark (precursors)
all do
ours all cut fuel on tachometer loss.
The signals on the neg coil are huge. so suzuki uses this supressor, its really a divider shaper. for the tach, other wise the back EMF from the coil primary likes to blow up sensative electronics, in a tach or ECU/PCM. cruise.
so it lower this voltage to a safe and sane level,

it seems your car is more complex ignition and no schematic for it like we have for ours.

basically the ECU fires the ignitor gate. (transistor)
if the the ECU monitors in some way (deep in the secret turbo ignitor) it monitors the Drain pin this is coil minus
if the coil is open primary (ohm it yet>?)
the ignitor is shorted, drain to say source, or is blown up , open the
monitor sees no signal, and cuts fuel, and sets 41.



look here again.
the ignitor iS just a transistor, in your case it has the suppressor built in, btw, it does more than that.

see here
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/8v-tbi-schematic91to95.jpg

ive drawn in the actual ignitor circuits, see that transistor there, that is REAL, replaces POINTs from olden days.

Your books seem to not have full info on the ignitor,
(a drawing of the guts would be useful)

the ECU drives the gate for dwell time, this charges the coil, then while its charging the CKP/CMP fire and the ECU then release the ignitor and INDUCTION happens. spark
this i how it works if the ECU sees a dead pin a1 on above drawing , fuel cuts and 41s set.

how yours does that , ive no clue, no ignitor , but the book told you what pin is dead, IGT
there are 2 pins,
one fires the ignitor (gate)
and the other is read back.