Problem to start when the engine is hot

[LuisCarlos]

Hi, everyone
I'm new in this forum. I'm Spanish living in Sevilla South of Spain. My English is not very good but I can write. I have some grammar problem but I think you can understand.

I have a Vitara JLK or Sidekick with G16A engine 8 valves, it has almost twenty years..
About 4 months ago the vehicle began to spend too much fuel and to smell pure gasoline and when starting the engine in could time ISC not working 800 r.p.m only and difficult to drive..
So I take it to the car workshop to see some error code on the machine. Then they set a inyection body from scrapping, it working well but had ISC problem too.. So I decided to set a new one because the sidekick is in good condition I repaired by myself some problem during all this years but to electronic system I don't know too much about..

Now the engine working very well spend less than eight liters and runs great much better than before.. But has two problems. First, when starting the needle go to 2000 r.p.m. and then down to 1500 r.p.m. Too much speed knowing the oil is not lubricating cylinder in thouse moments. The second problem is when I turn off the engine after 30, 100, or 500 kilometers and I start after five minutes again it go up to 1800 r.p.m and down to 1000 and never down to 800 as is normal en idle speed..

So I take it to the car workshop. Then they returned the body and brought a new one but the same problem continue like this. They were looking for thouse problem but after two weeks they gave me the car with any solution. I know they faliled to find the problem they are also friends and car workshop boss had been working in Suzuki Central during 42 years as foreman..

So I opened the Air Valve (thermo wax) and I see that was a little more open than in other body. I closed it a little more and now when starting go to 1800 to 1300 r.p.m but I think this is not rigut..

And about starting in hot if you wait about 15 minutes after turn off the engine then working very well go directly to 800 r.p.m. I put also a new Air Temperature Sensor but without effect. It also has ECT (green color) and Dash Temp Gauge new they put them but without effect too.. Only rest to change other sensor that is in the intake manifold because there is four sensor in this model it's Water Temperature Sensor..

So if any of you can help me about I will be very thankful for it and to colaborate in this Forum doing my best..

Thank you very much and thanks for being there

[fixkick]

welcome !!!
what year? car?
the idle issues are different cold and hot engine
cold start, is going to be 1500rpm due to the dash pot , then after a few seconds the dashpot retracts 100%
the IAC air valve will be open cold (wax pellat valve) that is open up to 150F then closes, all by that wax deal.
the Throttle body is a dirty starting engine with WET injection, so to make it atomize on TBI engines, the do run fast idle cold. or the fuel puddles. in the plenum
and makes smog.

now ill talk TBI hot start.
this is when the IAC is closed after all the IAC is closed at 150F and is now 180f.
but the dash pot there, sill works at all times, it causes fast idle at start. (watch it yet?) see it open the throttle with this vacuum servo rod?
then it retracts. and idle will be 800 hot. 750 to 850 is spec.
but if the ISC can not control idle then it can go anywhere. (unregulated that is)

trying to change the IAC is wrong, if it closes at 150f then its working 100% ,that gap dont matter much. closed matters at 150f
i dont know what TBI you have,
1989
1991
1995 are different.

does your ISC have water pipes?

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there are many tests.
but if the engine is hot , iAC is closed now, and is not a factor.
if you dont like the dash pot and mess with it, the ecu will get very confused, it assumes its working,.. do not defeat it, is my IDEA.

now regulation, if you have air leaks (vacuum leaks plenum) then the ISC closes, and the ecu can not drop rpm to 800
the ECU and ISC both fail. they can not close the valve over 100% this is impossible.
so we get the leaks cured.
is the TBI throttle valve 100% closed, (dash pot retracted by hand)
got his part here.
as the ISC is dead if the TPS idle switch fails.
got this air bleed?

http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_S...age_5.html

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best is to work 1 problem at a time.
1: water temp good and hot 180F or more engine hot.? must be.
2: idle switch closed at hot idle. or with dash pot servo retracted by hand , engine off.
3: is 800 rpm regulation working hot? turn on head lights, and heater fan does RPM hold steady at 800 RPM?

[LuisCarlos]

Thanks Fxkick!!
Well, the car is from 96 year and single-point injection. When starting in cold and after three second the dash pot retracts 100%. Before I tighten two threads inside the IAC air valve the starting in cold was 2000 r.p.m, then dawn to 1500 r.p.m until 800 r.p.m when the engine warmps up..
And after I tighten two threads idle sped is 1800 to 1300 r.p.m.. But as you say have to go to 1500 r.p.m as always and then go dawn to 1400 until the engine warms up to 800 r.p.m, this have been how it has been running during nineteen years..
When I opened the air valve to regulate with the engine cold the rubber valve was opened according Suzuki Rhinoman Manual but because throttle body is completely new I suppose IAC and ISC have to be OK, but..

Yes, there are two water pipes water inlet and outlet. The dash pot working retracting and pressing as normal it's new too and I never going to defeated it, of course, when the engine is turn off it's pressing the throtlle valve, when the engine starts it retracting. But I think thouse three second to retracting the dash pot is too much, maybe is for that it's going to 1800 r.p.m when starting, I know that because I put my video camera behind the throtlle and filmed the whole process..

I don't know if the VSV vacuum valve is working well, perhaps the dash pot has to retracting less time than three second, then when the engine starting will go up to 1600 r.p.m, as maximun this is an idea only, I can change it too..

I check vacuum leaks but I can't found any, anyway I'm going to see them again. The ISC has only one pipe from it to after the air filter and it's more big than ordinary hoses as dash pot, and has two clamps.. But if there is any vacuum leaks where might to be only in this pipe ?

Yes, when the throttle valve is closed 100& I can move dash pot with hand..
I haven't thermometer to know the water temp in the engine but it never had been heated the gauge needle temperature is always in the same place as always.. Sorry, I don't know what switch you say "idle switch closed at hot idle" If I starting the engine when is hot after five or ten minutes the dash post retracting totaly and the thorttle wire or cable has slacks but the thorttle valve is not cloded 100%.. It's open about two milimeters separate from the screw sealed in factoriy in down side, in this moments the idle speed is 1000 r. p. m..

But when I try to move the thorttle valve by hand to close until this screw, it's as it was locked hard to move, the foreman put greasing in all this area. But if I touch a little the accelerator pedal or by my hand in throttle valve to accelerate the engine, the thorttle valve come down directly to 800 r.p.m.. But if before start when the engine is hot I wait more than 15 or 20 minutes when I starting again there is not any problem the idle speed go directly to 800 r.p.m as is normal.. Before and In summer when I start the engine in morning time the idle speed was 1600 r.p.m to 800 r.p.m. when warms up. After turn off the engine and until evening time I don't use the vehicle because my job and when I starting again and the engine was cold the idle speed would directly to 800 r.p.m without need tgo to 1600 to 1400 r.p.m to warm up because the vehicle all was very hot, you can't touch the car body..

If I'm driving and I reduce because traffic light from fifth gear to second gear the idle speed come down also to 800 r.p.m. when the vehicle is stopped.. But if when I'm going driving in third or fourth speed and I must to stop suddenly because any traffic light the idle speed is also in 1000 r.p.m but after five seconds come down to 800 r.p.m.
After the idle speed get 800 r.p.m it working all the way very well doesn't matter if is 100 or 500 kilometers but if I stop to get gasoline and I start again after five minutes the problem is again 1500 to 1000 when start only with a little touch in pedal come down to 800 r.p.m..

I don't know aslo what's head light maybe you say road light ? If is that the idle speed hold 800 r.p.m.. and I never heard fan because when I turn off the engine there is no sound to listen but it should work because in this area South Spain and in summer time the sun is very strong you can see thermometer at 52º degrres Celsius or more, I hear it only if I disconnect Water Temp Sensor or Gauge Temp.. I told there are four sensors in the intake manifold but there are only three, the other is Gauge to see the temperature neddle but it's in water thermostat not in manifolld and is new too.. The only not changed is Water Temp Sensor that have one wire only..

Today, I'm going to study fixkick link page you sent me to see it very slowly.. I think this is like a rare disease maybe with your experience and fixkick details we can discover what is happenig..

Thanks a lot for your help and details..

Greetings

[fixkick]

ok that TBI was banned here in 1995, so all 96s Up are MPI x4 injected. but im aware if this and is not a rule in EU, or SPAIN, all normal. this.

IAC?, Suzuki has never published the max rpm on coldest coolant ever here.
my guess is 2000 rpm ,max, I've seen 1500 on most, on cold days. (after dash pot does its thing) really if the engine oil is thick and engine stiff this varies) but if running 0w oil?, something else? or weak engine? (the speed will be a factor of air supply and engine friction(loads) , now)
try to keep in mind the difficulty starting in frigid weather, with that single injector and fuel puddling there.... (lots of AIR wins this)
its all the weakness of TBI, and why it's gone today..... (the CAT is dead cold, so this is a major source of pollution , then)

IAC hacking::
the problem with closing IAC cones, down , is that cranking the ECU assumes its open fully, (it has ECT temp tables for that) and injects based on that fixed table. (why fool any ECU,)?

if you close it down, then it goes too rich cranking!, can be a problem on real cold days, it will start with Dashpot open then starts and floods.
just something to consider, and that he ecu knows the air source of iAC = dash pot, cranking and first start)?

but on the other hand after 20 long years, the wax pellet is slow, weak and late to close. (prove it in a pan of water!)
i just use hot water in a pan to see that it does close 100% at 150f if it does, then its all i can do. really, for sure. (my camping stove works here)
next is the idle stop, Someone messed with yours.(more later)
The dash pot.
those 3-30 seconds are a variable in the ECU, It's hard coded software on ECT readings , who could change the ROM in the core of that processor?, (impossible right>?)
there is a screw on that DP device, lower that? yet? DP fast idle is in the book, the test is 2500 rpm i think, done HOT not cold and forced by hand.
cant change time but air flow yes, more later.... on DP
TV not closed, is FAIL TIME!
is the TB 100% closed, the TV valve is 99.9 % closed, it's only open enough to keep it from jamming, in fact will not pass water thru it , when tested.
so you have in effect the 91 to 95 USA setup, for 8v. ok, i know it very well, ran many tests on it , to use aftermarket ECU.
TV is set wrong more later....
TPS idle:
the idle switch, ok the tps has 4 pins.

rubber valve was opened according Suzuki Rhinoman Manual

(rubber valve what is that?) my guess. the non water heated, ISC? where is this?
these old cars, some parts are not sold now.... so actions must be taking to keep car running,
many have screwed in the iac, valve, one guy even blocked it. for ever. and must use right foot to start car. (skills)
One more point , if the ISC is active and the ECU cant seem to control idle, this ECU will HUNT THE ISC in the blind hope (dumb software) that i can find 800 rpm some why...... (but never off idle point)

this old car has a switch, (a crude carbon switch) inside the TPS
when it closes, it tells the ECU , hey, im at idle , turn on the ISC servo now, and kill EGR now. (etc)
if the switch is not calibrated and open there will be no iSC actions. it be dead now. and idle random. (load based, and air leaks based)
The J engines up dont have this switch, it just looks for 0.5v throttle voltage = idle active. but not G16s ever. it has a switch that must work.
TPS:
pins C and D here, on my TPS pages?
http://www.fixkick.com/TPS/TPS-p91.JPG

water temps are key, if the thermostat fails, (or is wrong) the ECU will punish you and the engine.
we use a IR gun to point at the water parts and make sure all hit near 180f,( some will be like 170f outside but inside 10f more)
http://www.harborfreight.com/infrared-th...xSEdoUTnuE
the thermostat housing and the ISC and IAC must flow water and be near 180f + (i run a 195 stat) they will not work , if temps at THEM get near 150f.
this is key to those to parts working and ECU tables all run off ECT reading BIG TIME. (and iat)
(thermostat bad or wrong or missing, or those tiny hoses clogged after 20 long years. all cause the IAC /ISC to fail.) we use the gun and not guess.
the dash gage has no numbers it not useful ever. it's a toy. use real measuring devices to do testing.

wrong TV, I can not guess why , only can show what is wrong for sure.

It's open about two milimeters separate from the screw sealed in factory in down side

, in this moments the idle speed is 1000 r. p. m..
this is wrong, the TBI (why not post a photo of yours?, so we can see what generation you have)
im sure its a 1995 TBI , same as our. was.
the 2mm gap is dead wrong, for vitara's G16a in any country. .080" about 4 match book covers think gap, huge in terms of AIR.
that is my opinion. (keep in mind vast number of folks measure this and send me facts on theirs)
the side of the TBI has and air screw, see that the bleed this screw sets the idle not that stop screws or ever a 2mm gap. not at all.
i have like 5 TBI's in hand and see vast more and all are 100 (99.9%) closed, its open only that amount that prevents jamming or damaging the bore wall.
this is a fact.
what happens is this.
many owner, see idle too low, cold or hot. and then open that valve screw. this is wrong.
the bleed screw see set the duty cycle of the iSC to 50% (about 7vdc with meter) and that holds idle hot at 800 (TPS switch closed for sure) and we can put
any load on alternator or even select drive and rpm holds at 800 (a/c off and p/s not overloaded)



there are some key things that must be right to get the wet TBI to run right, the TBI is wet like a carb, was. and is dirty EFI TBI and is why it banned here.
it's the most bad cold. MPI was the cure here, and now, world wide.
the crude factory cure are high idle speeds at times, when cold, to prevent gas puddling in the plenum and runners. IT'S A WET MANIFOLD.

hot idle issues.
ok if at 180f or even 195f like mine
the IAC is roasting hot. its 100% closed, now, if actually hot, some are not, those paths do get blocked on many old car like that.
the ISC has 2 water lines too (electric valve ,modulated but the these 2 water hoses are to heat the TBI no the ISC, (it dont care)
so you have almost 3 sources of heat to the TB, one is the base water feed in base of TB.
so as you can see TBI heat is huge thing here, the A/t trans has heater screen below the TB< for a 4th heating source. (never leaned why a/t is bad. ok my brain just got it, the a/t might run low RPMs in drive and puddle more? unlike clutch car with clutch pressed in at stop signs....)

now the 800/1000 rpm thing driving , my assessments
if the A/C cuts on, the ECU sees that and goes to 1000 RPM , per the book. (called the fast idle pin on ecu. GOT A/C? (it's still hot here...)
the P/s overload switch wire can fail, (ground out) and 1000 RPM happens. 200 +800 = 1000 per software in ECU>
so can sticky throttle cables, up to 3 cables with cruise and a/t (yours is my guess 1cable car, )
next is that 2mm gap, that be wrong. (assessments....)
that is going to force the engine tuneup guy to closed the bleed screw 100 % this is wrong. and then the iSC can not slow engine enough
so when real hot engine , lots of extra power, and that huge 2mm leak of air, the ISC THEN DROPS REGULATION
this EFFECT is called, going outside the command authority of the ISC< (or, as I say, gee, the ISC is closed 100% now , how in the world can it close more that 100%, it can't)
so rpm rises.. it must, during this calamity.

The FSM book does not cover that TV secret GAP, they assume the screw is never touched, and that if touched you buy a new TBI, but they dont sell them now. (funny that, huh, but some makers of cars do spec this, and read them and they all say, .0005 to .001" )
so we measure that gaps, and its NEAR zero.
ive set many that were molested to .0005 (the smallest feeler i own) 0.01 millimeters (those zero's are real)

then i put my scope on the iSC pins of the hot engine. (ir gunned to be sure its really hot, or drive 20 miles)
and sit the duty to 50% , 1/2 high , 1/2 low , if not having scope, i set it to 7vdc, (14v high 50% is 7vdc if your meter likes you, some don't)
I then turn the bleed screw (hot) to 50%. duty, and hark 800 happens and is very hard to make it fail, unless I overload the engine. (dumping clutch will)
now the ISC can do its job under all conditions, of engine friction, efficiency or alternator loads, or fast idle pin demand)
to open 50% or close 50% and handle any load changes on the Alternator, or engine gets hotter and more loose. or the p/s or a/c demands 200 more rpm.

more?????,.............


DP actions
the top left screw here if unscrewed will lower the DP fast idle speeds, if you dont like the DP actions. ive avoided this, so as not to fool my ECU too much.

http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/no-touch.jpg

off my fresh air page....

Step 2: (8v only all years) FSM quotes.
THE DASH POT or DP: (aka; cold start fast idle servo diaphragm) CSV ?

If you must adjust the Dash pot, here is how: ( always done last #3) }{best practice is leave it alone} (unless someone messed it up)
This is the Cold Start High Idle, controlled by ECU. (operates for 2 to 30 seconds startup. and retracts.)

See spring loaded screws that touches DP?
Warm engine, set normal idle to 800 RPM first. (no tach 2wd? connect or Point an RPM gun to crank pulley [any kind])
With hot engine, turn off all accessories, A/C fans, lights, radios, etc. (P/S not in overload)
With engine running at 800 RPM , pull the DashPot vac. hose (plug it) this will cause the spring inside to raise the idle.
Set the RPM to 2100-2300 RPM by adjusting the spring loaded screw. On throttle shaft , rear. Called fast idle set below photos.
Undo all the above.

Some people don't like this idle speed and choose lower. I think that is OK. (if not to extremes)
Some even defeat the whole DP (unbolted) , letting the IAC do all the work. (makes cold starts rich and fools the ECU big time) flooding etc.

end fsm and commentary.

SENSORS:
yes, the car has 4 temperatures sensors.
1: dash gauge, (useless to EFI )
2: ECT
3: IAT
4: a/c overheat trip.
up to. #4 is missing if no A/c
2 and 3 are very critical sensors . and IAT too on all 8v , all TBI need an accurate IAT to calc, air density)

rule one, all EFI systems!
try not to fool it. or it can be a long hard day.

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if worried about cold start rpm's
run thinner oil in winter
or get a block heater (or mag attached pan heater)
lower the DP screw just a tiny bet, not whole hog unscrewed.
or crank engine if parked for a month , with the "FI" fuse pulled. cranking to prime the head oil gallery. (top end oiling) mine does 55psi just cranking...no spark.

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sure wish i know what rubber flapper is.... very curious....

[LuisCarlos]

Thanks Fixkick again!
Well, I understand this engine is old and was barned in U.S.A because it has 20 years, and Suzuki never published r.p.m, but during all this years in cold time i.e. winter time, was 1600 max t0 1400 until warms up to 800 r.p.m, and other friend that has the same model r.p.m idle in cold working like this..
Ok, I want to send you some photos as you say but I don't know how to do it, I use Postmage to send photos to other forum but for this I don't know, where to make "clic" for that ?. In this "Quick Reply" I don't see any that indicate to up photos so.. I hope is not difficult for that..

Althougt the model is old the TBI is completely new and this incluging TPS,FPR, ISC, IAC wax termal valve, DP, and it's original from Suzuki factory here in Spain, and the ISC is also from Mitsubishi Company as the old TBI, for that I suppose that thouse systems or devices are OK..
The rubber valve is inside IAT wax, it's down the ISC, there are three screws you can open and you can see then like a washer with two gap to introduce a round nose pliers or a similar tool, then you can rotating it to close ot to open this valve.. I¡ll make it and r.p.m went down from 2000 to 1800.. Before that I opened this IAC valve with a grinding machine to see how it working because is not posible to open and separate of TBI, if I can to send photos you can see it very well, anyway I think the problem is not from it..

I opoen the TPS in the old TBI, and there is not any crude carbon switch, there is only a resistance or potentiometer, anyway it's new too, and on the road and on the streets running very well, and spend gasoline as if it was new.. I forgot to tell you that this car has only 140.000 kilometers because I have 61 and I'm retired long, normally I use the vitara three times a wek to make about 60 kilometers each. Also I'm going to other country travelling and the vitara was parked with the battery disconnected, las time was almost nine months without use, so I think as the foreman the old TBI failure because some devices and sensors were finished for not use..

Well friend, I have to read this message more quiet it's very long and good and I have to see your links too, I'll reply you again later.. By the way, are you the same person who had made fixkick pages and everthing about ? I think are you, so I have to give you my Congratulations for this hard and excellent work, photos, links, pages, it's amazing that you are made.. It will help many people, thanks a lot for that..

We in touch and waiting what about to send photos..

[fixkick]

the rpms cold are all table drive, and like this :
1: DP rpm is calibrated hot. but when cold is UNDEFINED and is high.
2: the IAC closes at 150, the RPM is undefined, what you get depends on engine temp and water temps., and engine friction , altitude, and age of engine (weak)?
3: ISC is run 800 or 1000 rpm depends on fast idle pin.

why not use the gallery button above, it works, and is free. just dont post 65 inch photos, like most modern cameras do.. they need to be shrunk to say your desk/lap top sizes.. 800x600 or 1024 wide, is best.

Spain, TBI, that is Santana. i cant talk about Santanas, sorry, how TBI is set there and ECU tuning ,ive no clue.

ok yes, that is rubber covered cone valve in the IAC with steel seat that is factory set. id never mess with that. why wreck s new IAC?
that is extreme in my book. why do that? and a very expensive part to just hack on, right?
yes, you are just like me,,, yes, i do cut open all parts to see how they really work, there is no better way (xray machine, yes, done that too, had one at work"lab")
i guess you never found my slide show, its online for 7+ years.
http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_S...age_9.html
see how i reversed engineered those gaps, there.?????
i even used wifes deep freezer -10f, to get that data point, see that. see how it opens real wide , real cold?? 40f is main refer temps.
this photo proves that the colder it is, the faster runs,,, a hard cold fact (no pun)
your TBI is same as ours. has hot water ISC< (unlike any 89/90 here)
has bleed screw, you have one right??????

my work allowed me to block the IAC to find all vacuum leaks in the plenum.
on some engines, you can block the IAC with clay, or the top suction port or at the base and find that the engine still races fast... huge leaks,



the TPS is all carbon.
i mention that because many cars like this, the switch is gold
gold has 0 ohms closed
but not carbon
and that must be known first., to test it. the fsm TPS calib page or mine.
the switch is set with a feelter gauge, set, and ohmmeter ( to below 500 ohms) below 500 the ECU sets, IDLE MODE.
if set wrong
1: too high, the idle never happens.
2: too low, and the idle mode fights you , when you just TIP-in the throttle a bit. (felt is this very odd , hesitation then)

---

why is gap 2mm (TV) it must not be, on all Vitara's of any kind,
do you have bleed screw?

how do it set this up, asssuming worst case (some are)
1: test and calibrate the TPS, (so idle switch is perfect)
2: make sure cam belt not slipped and timing at spec with timing freeze jumper set, (seem spark time page on how)
3: DP works, (it does)
4: the TV is 99.9% closed)
5: IAC closes at 150f , im sure it did and does.. now.
6: get engine not. does , heater fan on and headlights on ,not cause RPM to drop below 800 (can bump down for 1second, ecu is slow beast)
7: ok now we pinch the ISC air hose (not the 2 water lines)
does rpm drop to like 400 rpm or stall, good there are no huge plenum leaks, im very happy as leaks are long hard cure... can be. or just cracked hoses.
8: no know , there are no leaks, and i set duty cycle, and #6 starts to work later after duty setup.

thats pretty much it.
unless DP rpm is not liked, it is high, no lie and in USA EPA rules make it so... here..
the IAC closes at 150f. but if its runs to fast cold? (IT WILL by same laws) but that is what wet fuel TBI NEEDs to stop pooling of liquid fuel.....
if you screw in the annular ring (factory set ) in IAC, the valve closes at a lower temp than 150f , a fact. and will really confuse the hell out of any ECU.
the tables in the ECU are all keyed off 150f
(the ecu goes to warm up mode then) going to warmed up mode early has nothing but BAD , all bad, that.......
why do that?
why lie to ECU ever, it's not all that smart of an ecu, to begin with, and slow.


all TBI look just like this (DP defeated)
http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_S...ge_21.html

all,
why is yours wrong? i cant guess why.... but is very very curious event..... id be all over that, fast.

my guess, is the TBI was put on a car with dead isc.
and then hacked to add air..... but that is just a wild guess based on what folks did last 10 years... seen.....

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do not doe this on a good TPS. below.

all carbon, the pot (throttle angle) is carbon
and so is the switch. all on this ceramic substrate (base)
http://www.fixkick.com/TPS/TPS-v8a.jpg

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we can fix bad idle issues on any car.
i dont use the smoke machine unless desperate (very tricky testing)
what i do is starve engine of air, step by step and find offending parts...
one guy had a TBI that had freeze damage in side that caused and air leak that seemed, impossible, but was realty.(a cruel beast)

[LuisCarlos]

ok that TBI was banned here in 1995, so all 96s Up are MPI x4 injected. but im aware if this and is not a rule in EU, or SPAIN, all normal. this.

IAC?, Suzuki has never published the max rpm on coldest coolant ever here.
my guess is 2000 rpm ,max, I've seen 1500 on most, on cold days. (after dash pot does its thing) really if the engine oil is thick and engine stiff this varies) but if running 0w oil?, something else? or weak engine? (the speed will be a factor of air supply and engine friction(loads) , now)
try to keep in mind the difficulty starting in frigid weather, with that single injector and fuel puddling there.... (lots of AIR wins this)
its all the weakness of TBI, and why it's gone today..... (the CAT is dead cold, so this is a major source of pollution , then)

IAC hacking::
the problem with closing IAC cones, down , is that cranking the ECU assumes its open fully, (it has ECT temp tables for that) and injects based on that fixed table. (why fool any ECU,)?

if you close it down, then it goes too rich cranking!, can be a problem on real cold days, it will start with Dashpot open then starts and floods.
just something to consider, and that he ecu knows the air source of iAC = dash pot, cranking and first start)?

but on the other hand after 20 long years, the wax pellet is slow, weak and late to close. (prove it in a pan of water!)
i just use hot water in a pan to see that it does close 100% at 150f if it does, then its all i can do. really, for sure. (my camping stove works here)
next is the idle stop, Someone messed with yours.(more later)
The dash pot.
those 3-30 seconds are a variable in the ECU, It's hard coded software on ECT readings , who could change the ROM in the core of that processor?, (impossible right>?)
there is a screw on that DP device, lower that? yet? DP fast idle is in the book, the test is 2500 rpm i think, done HOT not cold and forced by hand.
cant change time but air flow yes, more later.... on DP
TV not closed, is FAIL TIME!
is the TB 100% closed, the TV valve is 99.9 % closed, it's only open enough to keep it from jamming, in fact will not pass water thru it , when tested.
so you have in effect the 91 to 95 USA setup, for 8v. ok, i know it very well, ran many tests on it , to use aftermarket ECU.
TV is set wrong more later....
TPS idle:
the idle switch, ok the tps has 4 pins.

rubber valve was opened according Suzuki Rhinoman Manual

(rubber valve what is that?) my guess. the non water heated, ISC? where is this?
these old cars, some parts are not sold now.... so actions must be taking to keep car running,
many have screwed in the iac, valve, one guy even blocked it. for ever. and must use right foot to start car. (skills)
One more point , if the ISC is active and the ECU cant seem to control idle, this ECU will HUNT THE ISC in the blind hope (dumb software) that i can find 800 rpm some why...... (but never off idle point)

this old car has a switch, (a crude carbon switch) inside the TPS
when it closes, it tells the ECU , hey, im at idle , turn on the ISC servo now, and kill EGR now. (etc)
if the switch is not calibrated and open there will be no iSC actions. it be dead now. and idle random. (load based, and air leaks based)
The J engines up dont have this switch, it just looks for 0.5v throttle voltage = idle active. but not G16s ever. it has a switch that must work.
TPS:
pins C and D here, on my TPS pages?
http://www.fixkick.com/TPS/TPS-p91.JPG

water temps are key, if the thermostat fails, (or is wrong) the ECU will punish you and the engine.
we use a IR gun to point at the water parts and make sure all hit near 180f,( some will be like 170f outside but inside 10f more)
http://www.harborfreight.com/infrared-th...xSEdoUTnuE
the thermostat housing and the ISC and IAC must flow water and be near 180f + (i run a 195 stat) they will not work , if temps at THEM get near 150f.
this is key to those to parts working and ECU tables all run off ECT reading BIG TIME. (and iat)
(thermostat bad or wrong or missing, or those tiny hoses clogged after 20 long years. all cause the IAC /ISC to fail.) we use the gun and not guess.
the dash gage has no numbers it not useful ever. it's a toy. use real measuring devices to do testing.

wrong TV, I can not guess why , only can show what is wrong for sure.

It's open about two milimeters separate from the screw sealed in factory in down side

, in this moments the idle speed is 1000 r. p. m..
this is wrong, the TBI (why not post a photo of yours?, so we can see what generation you have)
im sure its a 1995 TBI , same as our. was.
the 2mm gap is dead wrong, for vitara's G16a in any country. .080" about 4 match book covers think gap, huge in terms of AIR.
that is my opinion. (keep in mind vast number of folks measure this and send me facts on theirs)
the side of the TBI has and air screw, see that the bleed this screw sets the idle not that stop screws or ever a 2mm gap. not at all.
i have like 5 TBI's in hand and see vast more and all are 100 (99.9%) closed, its open only that amount that prevents jamming or damaging the bore wall.
this is a fact.
what happens is this.
many owner, see idle too low, cold or hot. and then open that valve screw. this is wrong.
the bleed screw see set the duty cycle of the iSC to 50% (about 7vdc with meter) and that holds idle hot at 800 (TPS switch closed for sure) and we can put
any load on alternator or even select drive and rpm holds at 800 (a/c off and p/s not overloaded)



there are some key things that must be right to get the wet TBI to run right, the TBI is wet like a carb, was. and is dirty EFI TBI and is why it banned here.
it's the most bad cold. MPI was the cure here, and now, world wide.
the crude factory cure are high idle speeds at times, when cold, to prevent gas puddling in the plenum and runners. IT'S A WET MANIFOLD.

hot idle issues.
ok if at 180f or even 195f like mine
the IAC is roasting hot. its 100% closed, now, if actually hot, some are not, those paths do get blocked on many old car like that.
the ISC has 2 water lines too (electric valve ,modulated but the these 2 water hoses are to heat the TBI no the ISC, (it dont care)
so you have almost 3 sources of heat to the TB, one is the base water feed in base of TB.
so as you can see TBI heat is huge thing here, the A/t trans has heater screen below the TB< for a 4th heating source. (never leaned why a/t is bad. ok my brain just got it, the a/t might run low RPMs in drive and puddle more? unlike clutch car with clutch pressed in at stop signs....)

now the 800/1000 rpm thing driving , my assessments
if the A/C cuts on, the ECU sees that and goes to 1000 RPM , per the book. (called the fast idle pin on ecu. GOT A/C? (it's still hot here...)
the P/s overload switch wire can fail, (ground out) and 1000 RPM happens. 200 +800 = 1000 per software in ECU>
so can sticky throttle cables, up to 3 cables with cruise and a/t (yours is my guess 1cable car, )
next is that 2mm gap, that be wrong. (assessments....)
that is going to force the engine tuneup guy to closed the bleed screw 100 % this is wrong. and then the iSC can not slow engine enough
so when real hot engine , lots of extra power, and that huge 2mm leak of air, the ISC THEN DROPS REGULATION
this EFFECT is called, going outside the command authority of the ISC< (or, as I say, gee, the ISC is closed 100% now , how in the world can it close more that 100%, it can't)
so rpm rises.. it must, during this calamity.

The FSM book does not cover that TV secret GAP, they assume the screw is never touched, and that if touched you buy a new TBI, but they dont sell them now. (funny that, huh, but some makers of cars do spec this, and read them and they all say, .0005 to .001" )
so we measure that gaps, and its NEAR zero.
ive set many that were molested to .0005 (the smallest feeler i own) 0.01 millimeters (those zero's are real)

then i put my scope on the iSC pins of the hot engine. (ir gunned to be sure its really hot, or drive 20 miles)
and sit the duty to 50% , 1/2 high , 1/2 low , if not having scope, i set it to 7vdc, (14v high 50% is 7vdc if your meter likes you, some don't)
I then turn the bleed screw (hot) to 50%. duty, and hark 800 happens and is very hard to make it fail, unless I overload the engine. (dumping clutch will)
now the ISC can do its job under all conditions, of engine friction, efficiency or alternator loads, or fast idle pin demand)
to open 50% or close 50% and handle any load changes on the Alternator, or engine gets hotter and more loose. or the p/s or a/c demands 200 more rpm.

more?????,.............


DP actions
the top left screw here if unscrewed will lower the DP fast idle speeds, if you dont like the DP actions. ive avoided this, so as not to fool my ECU too much.

http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/no-touch.jpg

off my fresh air page....

Step 2: (8v only all years) FSM quotes.
THE DASH POT or DP: (aka; cold start fast idle servo diaphragm) CSV ?

If you must adjust the Dash pot, here is how: ( always done last #3) }{best practice is leave it alone} (unless someone messed it up)
This is the Cold Start High Idle, controlled by ECU. (operates for 2 to 30 seconds startup. and retracts.)

See spring loaded screws that touches DP?
Warm engine, set normal idle to 800 RPM first. (no tach 2wd? connect or Point an RPM gun to crank pulley [any kind])
With hot engine, turn off all accessories, A/C fans, lights, radios, etc. (P/S not in overload)
With engine running at 800 RPM , pull the DashPot vac. hose (plug it) this will cause the spring inside to raise the idle.
Set the RPM to 2100-2300 RPM by adjusting the spring loaded screw. On throttle shaft , rear. Called fast idle set below photos.
Undo all the above.

Some people don't like this idle speed and choose lower. I think that is OK. (if not to extremes)
Some even defeat the whole DP (unbolted) , letting the IAC do all the work. (makes cold starts rich and fools the ECU big time) flooding etc.

end fsm and commentary.

SENSORS:
yes, the car has 4 temperatures sensors.
1: dash gauge, (useless to EFI )
2: ECT
3: IAT
4: a/c overheat trip.
up to. #4 is missing if no A/c
2 and 3 are very critical sensors . and IAT too on all 8v , all TBI need an accurate IAT to calc, air density)

rule one, all EFI systems!
try not to fool it. or it can be a long hard day.

---

if worried about cold start rpm's
run thinner oil in winter
or get a block heater (or mag attached pan heater)
lower the DP screw just a tiny bet, not whole hog unscrewed.
or crank engine if parked for a month , with the "FI" fuse pulled. cranking to prime the head oil gallery. (top end oiling) mine does 55psi just cranking...no spark.

---

sure wish i know what rubber flapper is.... very curious....

Well, i'm still in the first message so I'm considering about thermstat also as you told me. Since some days ago I'm thinking about it because I saw on rhino manual thai it has a hole and if it is blocked become a problem, and also maybe gasket is in not good condition or as you say pipes clogged.. Before and in winter time, when the engine starts and during 400 meters the neddle from dash gauge barely move up from down side, but from about one kilometer more neddle was almost in the middle more o less of dash gauge, but now knowing that there is not could the neddle need only 100 meters to go up to the same place, but I saw it's two milimeters more down than before, althought is a toy as you say also..
Then I put a new radiator cap a month ago also but I don't found to purge air from system, maybe don't have is only through radiator cap, or not ?

But because the engine never overheatd I forget this system, and also because when the engine is hot and the idle is normalzed 800 r.p.m the engine working very well, when stop in traffic light or traffic jam, bu perhaps you are right, the problem could be that water temperature is under 180f or 82º Celcius.. The device IR gun is a good idea too to measure temperature, I'm going to open thermostat and see how is it, and if need I place a new one, anyway after 20 years is time to replace..

Yes TV is all the time closed 100% when cold and hot and resting in that Factory sealed screw, but only is open thouse two milimeters when I start in hot and DP retract, in this exact moment (I'll try send you photo) is separate from that screw as if was blocked for something when I'm trying to close it by hand, but if I accelerate pedal or by hand in TV I accelerate only a little it come down and don't make this more just when starting in hot first time again..

And about bleed air screw in TBI has as you say is about two milimeters gap before stop in the end..

I thought to buy a new Suzuki car with MPI system but this vitara is still in right conditions, the engine compression is OK power is as if was new, I have taken good care of this car, timming chaine is replaced, change oil each 5000 kilometers, all filters, it never gave me serious problem, I changed cardan and oil seal in rear group by myself and something like this.. After put the new TBI I went to test it and to visit a friend to Madrid, Spain capital from my city, this mean about 1000 kilometers go and back, and other 1000 kilometers more to visit other city, and any problem about for the contrary I was surprised how still is working as if was new, including A/C system that goes to 1000 r.p.m when stop in idle, the only problem is when start in cold or hot, so I decided to find it..

Yes, TBI in this model is dirty, when I removed the IAT when the engine was hot it was very dirty like black liquid and I thougth what is this inside the intake manifold? I think was gasoline..

So the two hoses lines is not to heat the ISC but to heat TBI ? I believe to heat ISC, but you are right has non sense to heat ISC..

About sealed screws in Factry DP lower and high I don't going to touch them neither other like these as hex 5 milimeters in ISC solenoide valve or TPS screws sealed too..
Yes this model has 4 sensors all are new less number 4 overheat trip because A/C working very well as you know now..

The rubber valve is inside the IAC you can touch it if you open this termal wax opening the three screwus under the ISC valve in this model but if I can send some pictures you can see all about..

Well, now I'm going to read your athers message and maybe tomorrow I'll reply you again.. Greetings and thanks..

---

Hi, I went to Gallery as you said me and I have been able to sent two photos about rubber valve you can see it in black color when IAC termal was open..
I'm going to send you the entire valve when I opened with a grinding machine to see much better a month ago, similar like you opened an ISC valve too..
And other photo is my TBI with ISC and hex 5 milimeters sealed in Factory with silicone..

I'll send some photos about..

[fixkick]

20 year old stats, have no future.
they are short lived, maybe 5years? (i think driving cycles, start run stop kills the faster)
the bleed hole on the stat is on up hill side, and lets you get all air out of the system.
yes the5 mm hex set screw, is isc factory set.
the tps lasts maybe 50k miles but seen many go 90k. easy. some go longer are are std. service part, but is calibrated by tech, when installed.

ah you say my, cut down ISC, great.

good TV closed, a perfect place to start.(no pun)

[LuisCarlos]

the rpms cold are all table drive, and like this :
1: DP rpm is calibrated hot. but when cold is UNDEFINED and is high.
2: the IAC closes at 150, the RPM is undefined, what you get depends on engine temp and water temps., and engine friction , altitude, and age of engine (weak)?
3: ISC is run 800 or 1000 rpm depends on fast idle pin.

why not use the gallery button above, it works, and is free. just dont post 65 inch photos, like most modern cameras do.. they need to be shrunk to say your desk/lap top sizes.. 800x600 or 1024 wide, is best.

Spain, TBI, that is Santana. i cant talk about Santanas, sorry, how TBI is set there and ECU tuning ,ive no clue.

ok yes, that is rubber covered cone valve in the IAC with steel seat that is factory set. id never mess with that. why wreck s new IAC?
that is extreme in my book. why do that? and a very expensive part to just hack on, right?
yes, you are just like me,,, yes, i do cut open all parts to see how they really work, there is no better way (xray machine, yes, done that too, had one at work"lab")
i guess you never found my slide show, its online for 7+ years.
http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_S...age_9.html
see how i reversed engineered those gaps, there.?????
i even used wifes deep freezer -10f, to get that data point, see that. see how it opens real wide , real cold?? 40f is main refer temps.
this photo proves that the colder it is, the faster runs,,, a hard cold fact (no pun)
your TBI is same as ours. has hot water ISC< (unlike any 89/90 here)
has bleed screw, you have one right??????

my work allowed me to block the IAC to find all vacuum leaks in the plenum.
on some engines, you can block the IAC with clay, or the top suction port or at the base and find that the engine still races fast... huge leaks,



the TPS is all carbon.
i mention that because many cars like this, the switch is gold
gold has 0 ohms closed
but not carbon
and that must be known first., to test it. the fsm TPS calib page or mine.
the switch is set with a feelter gauge, set, and ohmmeter ( to below 500 ohms) below 500 the ECU sets, IDLE MODE.
if set wrong
1: too high, the idle never happens.
2: too low, and the idle mode fights you , when you just TIP-in the throttle a bit. (felt is this very odd , hesitation then)

---

why is gap 2mm (TV) it must not be, on all Vitara's of any kind,
do you have bleed screw?

how do it set this up, asssuming worst case (some are)
1: test and calibrate the TPS, (so idle switch is perfect)
2: make sure cam belt not slipped and timing at spec with timing freeze jumper set, (seem spark time page on how)
3: DP works, (it does)
4: the TV is 99.9% closed)
5: IAC closes at 150f , im sure it did and does.. now.
6: get engine not. does , heater fan on and headlights on ,not cause RPM to drop below 800 (can bump down for 1second, ecu is slow beast)
7: ok now we pinch the ISC air hose (not the 2 water lines)
does rpm drop to like 400 rpm or stall, good there are no huge plenum leaks, im very happy as leaks are long hard cure... can be. or just cracked hoses.
8: no know , there are no leaks, and i set duty cycle, and #6 starts to work later after duty setup.

thats pretty much it.
unless DP rpm is not liked, it is high, no lie and in USA EPA rules make it so... here..
the IAC closes at 150f. but if its runs to fast cold? (IT WILL by same laws) but that is what wet fuel TBI NEEDs to stop pooling of liquid fuel.....
if you screw in the annular ring (factory set ) in IAC, the valve closes at a lower temp than 150f , a fact. and will really confuse the hell out of any ECU.
the tables in the ECU are all keyed off 150f
(the ecu goes to warm up mode then) going to warmed up mode early has nothing but BAD , all bad, that.......
why do that?
why lie to ECU ever, it's not all that smart of an ecu, to begin with, and slow.


all TBI look just like this (DP defeated)
http://www.fixkick.com/fresh-air/Slide_S...ge_21.html

all,
why is yours wrong? i cant guess why.... but is very very curious event..... id be all over that, fast.

my guess, is the TBI was put on a car with dead isc.
and then hacked to add air..... but that is just a wild guess based on what folks did last 10 years... seen.....

---

do not doe this on a good TPS. below.

all carbon, the pot (throttle angle) is carbon
and so is the switch. all on this ceramic substrate (base)
http://www.fixkick.com/TPS/TPS-v8a.jpg

---

we can fix bad idle issues on any car.
i dont use the smoke machine unless desperate (very tricky testing)
what i do is starve engine of air, step by step and find offending parts...
one guy had a TBI that had freeze damage in side that caused and air leak that seemed, impossible, but was realty.(a cruel beast)

Hi, well I have some news to tell you that I discovered in these days..

Yes, I never saw your slide photo about IAC valve, you said is an expensive parts but because I don't see it was sealed on factory without paint or silicone I move it, but I squeezed two rounds and I signed with marker the exact place where it was when came from Factory. But because I never saw r.pm to 2000 before and this's not very good to the cylinder without any oil to lubricate them, and because we are in autumn time, I did that.. But I can put the ring on the same place again and I don't wanted to lie to ECU, of course, was not my intention but my ignorance..

So you said me about head lights, well, if when idle is normalized to 800 r.p.m and I turn on the switch lights the idle come down to 700 r.p.m only for half second, then go again to 800 r.p.m, and if I turn off go up to 900 r.pm for half second too, go again to 800 r.p.m, so according to your information this's normal ?..

Then I have to saiy you sorry, because the TV is not separate from the lower screw sealed from Factory, I was wrong, I believed that, because the perspective view from that area is difficult to see and is so dark too.. But trying to test it I used a mirror and my photo camera and take some pictures and I saw very well that TV is doing full contact (photo in Gallery) with the lower screw, then you was right about is difficult that was happening.. Althought you konw also in old carburator the throttle valve in the axle extreme sometimes and because long time using would have like "steps" or recess, but this's not the case, so this point is forget..

Maybe and because you advice me to see coolant temperature and I knew about was possible too, I have bought a new termostat but I'm waiting before replce it to ask you some question..

1ª The radiator water is full until neck, has a new radiator cap, as you know, but the plastic tank is always two centimeters under the low mark, doesn't matter if the engine is hot after 500 kilometers or if the engine is could, if I refill water just between the full and low marker in the plastic tank, and after three days more or less, will be two centimeter under the low mark again, like this is working about one month and a half ago, but I think is working like this during many years, perhaps, the termostat don't close as in a correct way ? But this is only my opinion, of course, what do you think about ?..

2ª And the next is very curious, and is about to pinch ISC air hose, so when I start in hot and the idle speed is in 1000 r.p.m and I press or pinch with my fingers the air hose automatically idle speed come down to 800 r.p.m, and if I stopped pressing the air hose idle speed go to 1000 r.p.m again, but if I move TV to accelerate a little by my hand or pedal, the idle speed come down to 800 r.pm. and if in that moment I press again that air hose then nothing anormal happen, the idle speed continue in 800 r.p.m all the time, then the idle working correctly driving htrough the strrets, traffic light, stop.. Yes, is a curious event....

I think, only my opinion, that when start in hot and idle speed is in 1000 r.p.m, the ISC is open as is normal working in a correct way, then the air is entering through ISC to the engine, but maybe there is some air extra coming from from anywhere so the engine is working at 1000 r.p.m, and when I accelerate the engine something happen about engine depresiion or vacuum into the engine and then the idle is right.. You have a new clue and important proof now, I think..

You say "On some engines, you can block the IAC with clay, or the top suction port or at the base and find that the engine still races fast... huge leaks,"
But I don't understand very well how to do it, I need to open IAC valve as in your photo and to put the clay covering all the gap ? But I suppose before start the engine.. And "the harder way to make a botton gasket blocking the bleed/IAC PORT, as I read in your slide photo is the hole in the rigth side of the ring.. Please, explain me how to do it is difficult to me this system, I never did it..

Yes, I know some folks doing like you saiy, but that TBI came fron Suzuki Santana that is in Linares a town from Jaen province in Spain, and I had in my hand the box where this TBI came from Factory sealed whit Suzuki Company as new one..

I'll be waiting your information about, you can see the photos TV in full contact and pressing ISC hose..

[fixkick]

Hi, well I have some news to tell you that I discovered in these days..

Yes, I never saw your slide photo about IAC valve, you said is an expensive parts but because I don't see it was sealed on factory without paint or silicone I move it, but I squeezed two rounds and I signed with marker the exact place where it was when came from Factory. But because I never saw r.pm to 2000 before and this's not very good to the cylinder without any oil to lubricate them, and because we are in autumn time, I did that.. But I can put the ring on the same place again and I don't wanted to lie to ECU, of course, was not my intention but my ignorance..
you need to be clear, what rpm worries you, the 3 to 30 second, Dash POT RPM or the cold start AFTER< (IAC thermal RPM)
this is no CARB engine, you need to work with the rules of the ECU, in all cases (if you make the computer confused, then,...... all bets off)



So you said me about head lights, well, if when idle is normalized to 800 r.p.m and I turn on the switch lights the idle come down to 700 r.p.m only for half second, then go again to 800 r.p.m, and if I turn off go up to 900 r.pm for half second too, go again to 800 r.p.m, so according to your information this's normal ?.. GREAT THE ISC is alive, and TPS switch is closed GREAT>!

Then I have to say you sorry, because the TV is not separate from the lower screw sealed from Factory, I was wrong, I believed that, because the perspective view from that area is difficult to see and is so dark too..


But trying to test it I used a mirror and my photo camera and take some pictures and I saw very well that TV is doing full contact (photo in Gallery)
(under "acutator" please say where. or use a link to it)'
omg, i love your IAC photos, brilliant work that.....
nice new TB and ISC, do not mess with the hex screw or that too fools the ECU, we do tweak the junk yard ISC to get the worns seat to seals.
but never on any new ISC. ever. bad that.


with the lower screw, then you was right about is difficult that was happening..
Although you know also in old carburetor the throttle valve in the axle extreme sometimes and because long time using would have like "steps" or recess, but this not the case, so this point is forget.. very good, yes, carbs can do that. but never on TB, if the stop screw is left un touched.

Maybe and because you advice me to see coolant temperature and I knew about was possible too, I have bought a new thermostat but I'm waiting before repalce it to ask you some question.. (the new stat will warm faster, i run the hotter 192 or 195F stats so the warm up way faster and is a blessing on any 8v engine. TBI, this gets the IAC closed the most quickly)

1ª The radiator water is full until neck, has a new radiator cap, as you know, but the plastic tank is always two centimeters under the low mark, doesn't matter if the engine is hot after 500 kilometers or if the engine is cold, if I refill water just between the full and low marker in the plastic tank, and after three days more or less, will be two centimeter under the low mark again, like this is working about one month and a half ago, but I think is working like this during many years, perhaps, the thermostat don't close as in a correct way ? But this is only my opinion, of course, what do you think about ?.. (the side bottle, sucks as engine cools and fills as the hot water expands, the trick is , how much it refills cold , is how cold it got?)
see"? as side tank level will be higher on hot days, and less on cold, (pure physics of 50% antifreeze and water)
what really matters, is the bottle dont drop each day, or week, that be engine leaks.

2ª And the next is very curious, and is about to pinch ISC air hose, so when I start in hot and the idle speed is in 1000 r.p.m (why is this?) and I press or pinch with my fingers the air hose automatically idle speed come down to 800 r.p.m (no should go to 400rpm), and if I stopped pressing the air hose idle speed go to 1000 r.p.m again, but if I move TV to accelerate a little by my hand or pedal, the idle speed come down to 800 r.pm. and if in that moment I press again that air hose then nothing normal happen, the idle speed continue in 800 r.p.m all the time, then the idle working correctly driving through the streets, traffic light, stop.. Yes, is a curious event....
1000 rpm....
this is all very odd, on a hot engine, the TV is 100% closed, is it?
the IAC is closed, but did you modify that new IAC in base of TB, but it is closed hot. if hot, hot means over 150F and for sure 180F minimum, no guessing real instrument measurements....
The dash pot is retracted, is it?
the TPS idle switch is closed and new. and factory set. from SPain factory. (id calibrate it per my table on TPS, its factory data)
so where is that air coming from, seems it is the ISC. so that means the ECU sees reasons to activate the 1000 RPM rule.
but way, well only 4 ways,
1 (tps idle switch is set wrong and sometimes fails, on the cusp. so calibrate it . )
2 P/s overload switch wire grounding out.
3 fast idle pin on ecu set, (ecu see A/c on, and is not)
4: old cars with old tps have gunk under TV valve, or one of 3 throttle cables sticking... 3speed, cruise or main throttle)




I think, only my opinion, that when start in hot and idle speed is in 1000 r.p.m, the ISC is open as is normal working in a correct way, then the air is entering through ISC to the engine, but maybe there is some air extra coming from from anywhere so the engine is working at 1000 r.p.m, and when I accelerate the engine something happen about engine depression or vacuum into the engine and then the idle is right.. You have a new clue and important proof now, I think..
at 1000 rpm does the regulation test pass, HL on, and blower fan on, and holds 1000 rpm??? this proves ECU did the 1000RPM. if holds.


You say "On some engines, you can block the IAC with clay, or the top suction port or at the base and find that the engine still races fast... huge leaks,"
But I don't understand very well how to do it, I need to open IAC valve as in your photo and to put the clay covering all the gap ? But I suppose before start the engine.. And "the harder way to make a bottom gasket blocking the bleed/IAC PORT, as I read in your slide photo is the hole in the rigth side of the ring.. Please, explain me how to do it is difficult to me this system, I never did it..
this is all moot, your TB is new, the IAC is brand new, and works perfect if water temp is above, 179F (> 81.7 centigrade )
my comments are for old TB, or molested only.
The IAC is 100% closed on all hot engines, but I for sure do not know that yours is actually really hot. (20 year old thermostats are hopeless are are line clogs to isc or iac)
The clay test just proves the IAC is bad. you put the clay there, and idle goes NORMAL. bad IAC. (3 ways to block any IAC there are. but is moot here.)


Yes, I know some folks doing like you say, but that TBI came fron Suzuki Santana that is in Linares a town from Jaen province in Spain, and I had in my hand the box where this TBI came from Factory sealed whit Suzuki Company as new one..

I'll be waiting your information about, you can see the photos TV in full contact and pressing ISC hose..

actions.

1: new thermostat, and hotter is better if you dont like TBI , fast idles, (all TBI do that. for just cause) 82c or more , more is better.
2: TPS calibration, not set on the cusp of failure. use the 3 feeler gauges. use usa 91-95 rules
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS...alibration
3: does 1000 rpm pass the regulation test?
4: is P/S switch wire line not grounding out.
5; is A/C line not 12vdc to the ECU idle up pin.
this ECU only has 2 idle up modes, unlike the 1990. ecu.... more... they have head light idle up.... ouch.
6: TV dont stick, cables dont jam
7: TV not blocked in junk (no its new)
8: ISC good, (its new)
9: IAC is new, and is closed so is not causing issues.
10: vacuum leaks are all suspect here, any leak at all can cause the ISC to loose control, even a cracked brake booster diaphram. or any hose or any diaphram on any vacuum servo on engine or leaking VSV valve.
11: Duty cycle set wrong, so that the ISC looses control , at either end of it's , command authority. (50% is correct , only)


oh wow, thanks for such nice photos !!!!!!!

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where is your bleed screw set (duty cycle set screw it really is) (count the turns from where it is now to Clock wise seated gently)???
the hot engine has only 2 air sources.
Bleed + ISC.
so when you pinched the ISC hose, and rpm was 800 (no the engine will stall, or nearly)
well there is no way in hell, the Bleed path can run your engine.
sorry cant.
my guess is you never set duty cycle, with new TB.
the bleed screw does that.
set it to 7vdc, on the ISC wire with a DC meter.
with a scope, set it to 50%
seen here. and wrong.

turn the bleed , not engine, (new thermostat) and set it to 7v .
my guess is the duty is set wrong, and the isc can not close more that 100% and then looses control and rpm rises..

as you can see there are lots of paths for vacuum leaks.
all leaks wreck duty cycle calibration.

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when the hot engine has no vacuum leaks, (cept bleed and ISC)
we then turn the bleed screw.
until that scope view is 1/2 up and 1/2 down, 5v/div on scope,, the signal is 200 times a second. (very fast PWM)
12v is open
0v is closed.
at 50% the command authority is set to dead center. allowing maybe +400 and -400 rpm (roughly) controls of idle, under all conditions.

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a DMM meter can work too.
if the dmm is fast enough? (not and old slow meter)
and has no band width filters on DC mode. (blind to AC)
it will digitize and average the reading, so that 7v = 50% , if lucky.....
many meters now can do this...
and some have duty cycle mode, on the dial....

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a/c DMM mode will fail due to RMS rules. root mean squared rules. due to it's a square wave and not SINE.