Transfer case noise when in Reverse with brake on

[hyrific]

I have a 94 sidekick 2dr 8valve with Auto 3 speed 4x4.  When I am in reverse with the brake on I hear a clunking/rattling sound.  I had my wife hold the brake (I was glad she didn't kill me by releasing the brake you never do know do you).  And it was coming from the transfer case.  When you held your hand on it you could feel the vibration.  Could the torque converter be reverberating through the transmission to the transfer case?  Why would the transfer case make that sound when the drivetrain is not even engaged?  In any case when the car is rolling it doesn't make the sound and.  If the car is in 4wd with hubs free rolling it also doesn't make the sound.

Any thoughts?  I will check the fluid tomorrow.  Is this normal?

Thanks

[fixkick]

I have a 94 sidekick 2dr 8valve with Auto 3 speed 4x4.  When I am in reverse with the brake on I hear a clunking/rattling sound.  I had my wife hold the brake (I was glad she didn't kill me by releasing the brake you never do know do you).  And it was coming from the transfer case.  When you held your hand on it you could feel the vibration.  Could the torque converter be reverberating through the transmission to the transfer case?  Why would the transfer case make that sound when the drivetrain is not even engaged?  In any case when the car is rolling it doesn't make the sound and.  If the car is in 4wd with hubs free rolling it also doesn't make the sound.

Any thoughts?  I will check the fluid tomorrow.  Is this normal?

Thanks

foot brake ON, or hand brake on? which one? or both do this?  IDK?  I guess you  are driving right?  Held hand on what the XFR case lever ?
no not TC,
MY guess is car is not moving, and is  parked and you move the 3L30 box to REverse with foot brake held(?) and then advance the throttle  and you get xfr case noises)
This using throttle test, brakes set is the standard AT box stall test, to flnd bad transmission disc sets (or band clutches) inside that slip.(or a weak engine) sp is valid test done short time.
makes noise in 2wd and 4wd but not with front locking hubs turned to UNLOCKed,
sounds to me a loose chain in the XFR case? or U-joints
why not  assume U-joints and inspect them first they are outside the transmission and x100 times more easy to examine.
ever do this > man handle U-joints under a car, with hands move the JOINTS (forced) turn them first, see if you see movement from UJOINT yoke ends to the STARS.
if those move the bearing inside the joint is super bad. (call bearing clearance PLAY is  bad)
if you then try to move the Prop shaft ends , in 4 directions, 90degrees apart, up, down, left and right and see play in the STAR ends the joint is bad.
I even use  20" 2x4 wood to flex the shaft prop against the body and look very close to the STAR ends for any play at all, play is bad.spin yes, play none allowed.

if the JOINTS are bad (rear) then it will get worse fast, ,  and are dangerous if the front end of rear prop shaft fails, and car Poll vaults. ouch


the transfer case is ENGAGED all the  time  in 2wd or 4wd,  unless in XFR lever  Neutral, 4wd only adds the front AXLE for 4wd front axle actions.
this car has autoadjustiong rear brake pads.  and if bad (most are this old) it will make noise, there.  
if not brake related then Id guess bad U-JOINT rear prop shaft  either end.

[hyrific]

Gearbox in Reverse Foot Brake Held. NO advance of the throttle. Rattling heard in transfer case. My head was right next to it and it wasn't the drivelines. I will search loose transfer case chain.

[fixkick]

Gearbox in Reverse Foot Brake Held.  NO advance of the throttle.  Rattling heard in transfer case.  My head was right next to it and it wasn't the drivelines.  I will search loose transfer case chain.

diagnosing noise on any machine is not easy, and even can be very dangerous. 
but in your case the car is 0 miles MPH, zero speed so is 10x more safe this noise.  finding it 10x more safe. but you are in gear, and car can move if you are under it, then.
A/T in REVerse (this is called the A/T stall tests. classical and does overheat the clutch, so do for 5 seconds, stop rest it for 1min repeat so no damage to clutch , ok?)

foot brake set, hard, in 2wd (less parts  spin in 2wd so testing this way is best if it fails and does)  a mechanics stethoscope $5 tool is handy here, to hear WHO is making noise?

For sure the cheap causes, are U-joints.  have them inspected if you have never done them (replace or tested) them and have them checked out .

The chain fails mostly if you let other drive the car in 4wd (means front locking hubs are locked ) on dry road, rain wet only roads, or any road not slick with ice, or snow or on mud or dirt, this car has PART TIME 4 wheel DRive, and when it true 4wd one tire, most be on a slippery surface or the chain will bet damage, (streatchging and is progressive damage)
in 2wd the chain just floats.

see part ID 29 here
https://fixkick.com/tranny/xfr-case/html/image_1.html
that device there the DOG gear, is unlocked in 2wd, so the chain and all parts below it at ID33 etc,  float (means free wheeling)

it rattles at idle, keep and open mind on what can fail, even transmission mounts bad, or just loose.
check all related bolts there yet? on mount and rear trans cross mount every part if it for damage or loose parts.? or offroad damage?>

any good suspension shop can find noise, they do it on a lift, far more safer, 2 men testing for noise,  the test is easy, not moving , in REV, at idle.
and the 2nd guy finds the noise, by sound, by looking for parts moving oddly there, (under car) and levers all parts, key off, then levers the mounts off and running, to find if something is just simply loss, or the classic bad JOINTs.
if you car is 25 years old and the U-joints are day 1 factory parts that old why think they are good.  that grease it them turned to dust long ago.
you can buy forged joints (not cheap ones) with zerk fittings and grease them every 1 or 2 years and can last longer.
but most JOINTS make big fuss moving fast and under changing loads, and shifting and all wild throttle actions, moving.
parked noise, only is very odd, but can happen.
see Scotty too, below,
https://fixkick.com/NOISE.html

[hyrific]

Ok so I tested the U joint again and there does appear to be to much play I drove the car another 200 miles and noise increased. So I am going to replace and see if the noise is gone. Need to check if the alignment to rear axle is correct. Owner before me put in some suspension parts and perhaps the alignment is off now.
The U joint in the driveline is a aftermarket with a zerk fitting as a side.

Will report back after U joint replacement. The trans mounts are dirty as can be but don't appear to be cracked etc. Bolts seem tight.

[fixkick]

zero play in the U-joint star ends, those are needle bearing that have no play.  zero good, anyplay, is bad,
mounts are easy to test, use  the classic Archimedes lever, a.k.a,  a short 2x4 lumber and lever engine and trans mounts look for bad rubber, there, the rubber can fail, it feels loose.
the mount are very stiff rubber mounts,  there are tons of youtube videos demonstrating all this.
if the back end if car is not jacked up the rear prop shaft (drive shaft will be ok)    the maximum u-joint angles are well documented.  (known)
use jack stands, never use any hydraulic, screw  or  other types of (nor bumper) jack and get under any  car, best is 2 jack stand min;. (life and limb)a<<< sorry for captain obvious.

this  is why suspension shop can find all noise, using skills and tools
keep mind this is 4wd,  and the rear trasnfercase bearing can fail easy, on this car, TOWED say from an RV and that kills dead the rear nice bearing in the box.
worst of al the 3Speed, box, 2WD has silly GM bushing there and not a real ball or roller bearing, but this is not your case but others with 2wd, Oh boy.

what have I seen on u_joints, well this.
1: any play.
2: i flex it with my 2x4" (20" long?) and not hands(ok hands firs) and rust falls form bearing shell to my face, gee, end of life city.
3: bearing lands if fact
4; The seals, are wrecked, 1 to 4,  mangled or hard and collapsed and dead. useles.

finding noise not easy, but  u-joint bad top the list,  always. not bad transfer case, but 4wd run time stated most these cars are like zero 4wd usage. (unless live in snow or do wheeling)


http://ge.tt/6gvplbp2/v/20

[hyrific]

Ok I replaced the U joints because its not too hard and cheap. one of them did have some play. Problem is the T-Case still makes the rattle. I can feel the rattle when I touch the T-Case. The T-case now makes the rattle when I am in park and the engine is revved up at 2000 rpm. What would be moving around in the T-Case in park? When I am in park does the transmission spin the T-case in any way? 4WD does work.

[fixkick]

Ok I replaced the U joints because its not too hard and cheap.  one of them did have some play.  Problem is the T-Case still makes the rattle.  I can feel the rattle when I touch the T-Case.  The T-case now makes the rattle when I am in park and the engine is revved up at 2000 rpm.  What would be moving around in the T-Case in park?  When I am in park does the transmission spin the T-case in any way? 4WD does work.

since it makes noise in part , all you need to do use  $5 mechanics stethoscope (looks doctor like) sold as cheap as that a Harbor freight.
and listen to see if the noise inside the tranfer case, .

the chain DOES NOT have  a tension-er, so if loose, any vibration from the engine back will make it rattle (can) and can lots of things inside that are are worn and loose.
there are lots of parts inside, even the shift'er bottom parts can make noise if loose.
lots of things here can make noise, even parked,  with engine running the 4 banger makes huge vibration,  (compared to v12 engine near perfect balanced)

[hyrific]

Hey so the noise is there and I can't seem to quiet it with fluid. Seems best given this machine is going to end up a snow tracked machine to just buy a used one that doesn't make noise and swap it as I don't want to break down on the snow on the way to the cabin if I can avoid it. Did they use the same transfer case in the 4dr and Manual trans? Or do I need to find a automatic 2 dr same year range donor?

[fixkick]

Hey so the noise is there and I can't seem to quiet it with fluid.  Seems best given this machine is going to end up a snow tracked machine to just buy a used one that doesn't make noise and swap it as I don't want to break down on the snow on the way to the cabin if I can avoid it.  Did they use the same transfer case in the 4dr and Manual trans?  Or do I need to find a automatic 2 dr same year range donor?

the year matters only I think, generation
96 up has different splines.
91 to 95 is best
not sure on 89/90 (will look this up later)
finding one in snow country not warn out, is hard,   ITS ONLY part time 4wd so is weak,  for sure running in 4wd , not on ICE or not MUD/dirt/gravel.
running it on pavement dry or only wet is chain goes bad fast.
the Rule on PT, is one tire must be on something loose, at least 1 tire, or damage will happen fast.
PT = part time .
good luck on quest.!!!!


ill quote my swaps.html page
Quote the forums...  Transfer case issues.
"The 89-98 tranny is mostly the same form factor, it fits but there are exceptions:
The transfer case changed in 96 with new out put spline changed. (and for sure prop shafts)
Input is the same. to XFR case. input spline count is 23 ,BTW.
All t-case  (transfer case or xfr case)  input splines from 89 to at least 98 are the same size and count.
T-case output shaft splines are the same from 89-95 (26 spline) and from 96 to at least 98 they are 16 spline.
The output shaft size is 30mm (1.81"). on all."\\



do not forget geo tracker same box same rules.

2 pages of hits here just on kick , more on geo
i clicked USA if not USA click your country./

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