If any topic is infinite, this would be it, machines, and for sure cars, can make noises of the most strange and difficult to discover, and moving only, noises , tops this list.
What won't work?, Answer, Guessing !
As always, Scotty does it best ! (he covers many sources of noise or bad vibrations ) Finding the LOCATION first, is a top priority.
Noise or felt vibrations, felt where?, the steering, the hand no setting on the shifter knob, the foot pedals, the seat of pants? Is also key.
This page is all about not guessing. I also try to cover not just old 1.6L engines, but newer cars too, (HLA engines, DOHC). "Double overhead cam shafts"
All ASE mechanics are trained, to first read the TSB's of the vehicle in question. ( read them all but do look for things that cause noise, or early failures that make noise) TSB = Technial Service Bulletins (Suzuki service issues)
One popular TSB is TS-01-10-10265 (all Suzuki cars with brakes) or the TS-12-01074 how to get the DOHC engine timing cover to stop leaking .
Abnormal noise ,can come from many places, some are very serious to your safety ,or the life of the object complaining so load.
Engine: Belts, accessories, the Brakes:Suspension:Tires:Wheels, transmission, Prop shaft, CV joints, Universal joints, Shocks, Struts, or just road debris stuck under car.
Keep in mind a noise can just be a cracked Catalyst converter shield, mostly harmless , they can rattle or buzz. I make them buzz with the throttle then jam a stick up there and bingo silence.
In most cases noises are a very bad sign, it's the sound of a part asking for help. I personally don't drive cars that do that, until such time it is found to be harmless noises.
The first rule is to try hard to make the noise happen parked, if you can do that, you are lucky, as moving fast noises are very hard to find ,with out a sonic ear tool.
Inside car noise, out side, under dash? the location is critical to the solution.
The brakes (God forbid) tire noise (bulges?),
Overwhelming?
The first thing to do, is inspect car for loose parts and tire damages, the brakes, if the noise source is not obvious. (everywhere top , bottom of car). See man handling comments below.
Try hard to make that noise, not moving. Try real hard, even with brakes set, chocked wheels and in DRIVE. and at same time spin the steering wheel full left and right. BINGO?
If the engine, makes noise, don't drive car until you find the cause. (does the engine have oil inside? up to the Dipstick mark, same with A/T (RTM read the operators guide , and is free to get)
If the brakes make noise, they are bad, many cars , have front shoe noise makers telling you the pads are END OF LIFE. check the pads. (best is to look every 10,000 miles at pads/shoe linings.)
If you lightly press the brake pedal moving slowly, if they squeal with thick pads. and the markers are not hitting the rotor, this is normal, you can buy what I call PAD glue to arrest this normal squeal.
If you hit road hazards, the object can hit the brake backing plate and bends it, bingo noise. Inspections of same , finds the damage easy.
My first private Suzuki 91 Sidekick, the left lower Suspension "A" arm the lower bolt was just about to fall out.(nut long missing) My inspection found this in minutes. LOOK under car, LOOK 2 times.
Jack up each wheel/tire and spin it and feel the bearings, and listen, and use a lever on the tire, up and down and side to side, looking for excessive play.
If you don't understand what excessive means, then get a PRO to look at your car.
The top instrument for finding noise is your , stereoscopic ears, you can sense the direction, use that natural, way to find what section of the vehicle is making noise. (inside car, or outside?, is first)
Location is first, find the LOCATION. (use a helper, or use a remote electronic stethoscope to find the source, they cost only $50 today)
No person, on the internet can use their stereoscopic ears, not now , not ever. This topic is a hands on deal, always.
You an also buy 50 cents of rubber tubing, 1/4" Id( 5-6mm) and put one end of this tube in your ear and move the other end in many places to find noise.
- Up Under the dash, why is the funny black object clicking.
- Near any place that can suck air (vacuum lines and gaskets) that you can hear go hisssssssssssssssssssss.
- Near the exhaust to find exhaust leaks (wear leather glove and protection please.
- All for 50 cents worth of hose.
Same with P/S and A/C pumps. In fact any bearing on the car can be listened to directly , but never any U-Joint .
Listen to a car that is good, to learn what good bearings sound like.
Checks in the engine bay:
Can the noise, be made to happen not moving?
Engine off, I bump the 4 corners of my bumpers up and down, squawk , screech, grind, (suspension noise) 2 minute test. I do it any time I hear moving, suspension noise, like on a speed bump.
Engine running hood open , idling , the engine makes noise?.
Many engines noises are benign, but need attention, loose parts, loose intake ducting mounts (cracked mounts ) last guy who set belt tension failed to tighten all 3 pivots . (a very common mistake) Good way to break a ALT casing too.
One guy snapped the guide pinch bolt on the P/S pump, using insane torque on bolt. You see this easy, press belt hard with a stick (keys on pocket) you see any pump or ALT wag? bingo. it's not right. fix it. We call these checks man handling. PUSH and WATCH.or lever and watch.
The exhaust header at the manifold collector can sound just like a bad #4 rod bearing ! A Bad header donut gasket.
In fact, Suzuki has a TSB, just for this exhaust donut failure, stating, it fails fast in the salt belt, gee, seen many fail, no salt period. Even at 90k miles.! The 8v engine has no Donut, it has a flat 3 hole gasket, that never fails, much.
That donut takes a huge amount of torture, engine shaking and the exhaust swinging like a pendulum.
All 4 cylinder engines love to shake (no Silent shaft technology in this SideKICK ) so, they shake like a wet dog and rattle easy. Mitsubishi used the words Silent Shaft in patent 1975, and amazing engine, and company. Used by Fiat and SAAB. too.
So do expect loose parts to make noise on most 4 banger engines (not flat 4s) they shake and make harmonics too, the noise can even telegraph, (starts here, but makes noise why over there....)
I use stethoscopes , (real) to find the sources of any noise. (I have an "Electric ear" too, made by Steelman® # 97220 ( $37 and a $100 4 channel tool)
This tool takes the danger out of listening and not getting your body caught , under life, and allows testing while driving fast with 2 persons.
It has long wires that will keep you SAFE !
This tool finds the hard to crack cases. (tuff nuts to crack)
Moving fast and under very special conditions or very intermittent. (axle bearings to name 1)
If I tests (listen) to all major points on gear boxes and axles, and they are all normal sounding, then the U-joints or CV joints must be bad, the can not be listened, to (they spin fast) but can be felt by and or proven bad by elimating all others possible first.
I use real full ear phone muffs with my tool, this allows me to hear, only the machine parts making noise, in many cases I can find , early failures. Saving , expensive far from home , tows, and repairs, in opportunistic repair shops.
Imagine?, driving with bluetooth head phones on (generic) and listening to drive line noise, WIRELESSLY? (even more safe , no wire, ma !)
I too, can do the 1930's ploy of screw driver to ear trick "Thanks ,Scotty" (seen in Auto shop school , by me. at 15yo , in 1965), the real stethoscope, allows me to hear soon to fail bearings. ( try not, to miss out, on that fun?)
Did your mechanic fail?, to do the mandatory 60,000 mile service (100k meters) on your engine, and fail to check the VALVE LASH (1.6L has solids with gapped lifters) This is done at the Timing belt change, it's in the list.
The stethoscope, will allow you to hear rocker to valve tip noise, excess , easy. Try to listen to all engine surfaces and objects. The front cover is plastic , do you hear the belt hitting it,? Bingo, no 60k ever done , or the PO used C4 china parts. PO=previous owner.
In fact, listen now, on a good engine , to learn how normal sounds. (a proactive stance) (the 1.8L has hydra lifters and are a whole other matter )
Engine noises beyond this, takes a real pro, that knows how to vary engine speed, hot and cold and the fact that it is a single knock or double knock, under or off load, racing the throttle, in neutral.
Talk to any ASE mechanic for engine noise, he has a trained ear. (look for a mech with gray in side burns.... )
Many cars, have never ever, seen maintenance, and when done , you find, there are big problems under the valve cover, things loose, things broken, lash all wrong or the 8valve rocker screws loose (A TSB ISSUE).
The belt bad, driving the cam cogs. the belt cover shredded to hell from the last belt change and now its 3 times worse. Loose crank cog pulley, loose cam cog pulley.
The problems can cascade, taking a great engine to an early grave. (do the 60k , and it might hit 300k easy)
The saddest fail failure of all, is not torquing the front crank 17mm pulley big BOLT to 94 ft/lbs and the TSB begs you now, for 17 years running and is retroactive , ignoring this will destroy a good crankshaft very fast.
What is a TSB ? (yes, some are boring, with owners putting oil in the antifreeze hole and the opposite, yes skip the silly ones) Using"Goofy lube shacks?" THE TSB, IS FREE TO LOOK.
T = Trouble (things not to ignore)
S = Service ( related to life of you and car)
B = Bulletin. (from factory to you , simple words, the dealer says it's only to him , that is pure 100% USDA,
) Read them all , the TRUTH ,WILL SET YOU FREE ! Any time someone says, "don't read this", READ IT.The US government has TSB links, (see recalls) so does all online service manuals, Mitchell's, Chilton and alldata.com and most public library's too. They are not a secret, nor hard to find.
ENGINE top valve HEAD NOISE: ( idling or racing it in neutral)
Tools: One stethoscope for $5
You stethoscope probe around the Valve Cover, with a stethoscope , front ,rear , and can hear excess noise, the valves rockers have a normal noise, they have what is called LASH, this lash for SOLIDS ONLY, is about 0.006 inches, and in fact makes a tiny normal click.
This translates to a "tickty" sound, tic,tic,tic,tic,tic, etc.. as each valve opens and closes at 800 RPM hot idle. All other non tick sounds are bad.
All solids lifers make a normal sound, so only an experienced mechanic can tell , normal from abnormal, but as a DIY person you can do the 60k Miles service and if that cures the noise, then GOBSMACK me.. Tune up's do work.
This this normal valve lash sounds. You are checking for abnormal.
If not sure your sounds are abnormal, consider doing the 60,000 mine tune up (aka/ the 60k MILE ,service points) or do the lash settings per the book..
This page shows the many things that can go wrong with valves and lifers and rockers. +++
If the valves are quiet , then I next probe the Cam timing belt cover and in both cases , I rev up ,the engine in neutral. (aka. gunning the engine or racing the idle, in park , in neutral and hand brake hard set and tires/wheels chocked)
Do you here a shredded timing belt hitting the cover? slapping sounds.
Thrashing or ticking sound against said front cover.? 60k service was never done. the zero maintenance story , again , unfolds. Not only that, but cylinder compression is 80 PSI engine runs like crap.
Surely the bad cam belt or that DOHC cam chain can make noise, as can its "support crew" (the tension'ers and guides) 1.8L and larger have a hydraulically activated chain auto tensioner device. that can fail easy.
Non SOLID Lifter noise ? , (the service book lists setting the valve lash, and for sure checked at 60,000 mile with a new timing belt)
The newer engines 1.8L and larger, have HLA , that is, Hydraulic Lash Adjusters(video), that operate and have 0 clearance, running. (after oil pressure hits, normal, is it normal?)
They love to fail (gum up ) and collapse, due to owners not changing the engine oil when it's filthy or oil actually breaking down.
Where is my HLA, answer, they are between the cam lobe and the valve stem, just look, under the valve cover, they are, on plain view.
If your HLA makes noise, until they run for 1 to 30 seconds, on a cold start ,they are starting to gum up. (I cleaned my first set in a 59 Ford V8 , 332cu-in. (POS).
I have soaked all HLA's in acetone to dissolve all gum , in a coffee can overnight. The come out 100% clean. I then oil prime them and install them.
If any HLA makes noise,all the time?, then they need service/or replaced. (changing oil (engine ) frequently avoids all this hassle. (we replace oil because it's dirty, not because it's worn out , or the inane EPA tells me not to.... or syn oil Hawker Hype.)
The Head parts can all break, or come loose; not looking for damage under the valve cover, with noise here, is big mistake, LOOK? USE a $5 stethoscope to hear them, or a rubber hose held to your ear....
The common failure here is, broken springs (many), some heads have over 20 springs, valve and rocker , just on a 4 banger engine. LOOK at them. (if they all don't look the same ,then, they are bad.)
The cam top bearing caps, 16v, and rocker shaft screws love to be loose due to bad service. (cover off, LOOK)
Valve caps or keepers loose. (cover off and look and check for factory spec. torque) (the GM manual has errors here, do not believe any GM GEO books. do not believe FOOT POUNDS here. 1996 book is full of errors...case in point.
Belt shredded? hitting cover ?
CAM Chain whipping like mad due to its tensioner long ago, going belly up.? the Chain tensioner that fails is Hydraulic #31 here, it uses oil pressure to keep chain tension correct, at all times running. (but see cold starts below) 1.8l and larger engines.
The same device #31, can be slow to activate, starting any cold engine. (not mine,) but your old high mileage engine.
(I've dismantled many of these HYDR. tensioner, and the piston inside, is worn oval and rocks and jams , randomly, #1 reason, not changing oil at 5k, or its just too old. (normal wear) running 0w oil in this device, can fail.
Try running 10w-30/40 oil , unless in the YUKON. Read the operators guide 1 more time. Under climates and oil.
Rumor has it, that Suzuki has a secret TSB. telling you , it's ok to for it to make chain or HLA noise, for x number of seconds on a cold start. (this secret TSB is not in the PRO service sites, "ALLDATA, MITCHELS, nor at Chiltons)
The V6 and 2.0L DOHC engines all have this device. #31 ( getting at it this device to replace it, is a private little horror, taking off the oil sealed front cover and then later getting it leak free, is no picnic.)
The Belt covers are child's play by comparison. The G16B SOHC engine is are easier to service. The belt is few hours work, a chain, days, or a lost week end.(or more, and if it leaks oil ? 2 week ends shot)
Tricks.
The wits end, run engine with all belts off, and stethoscope, my ears off.... .I might do this, as a last resort. I'd not gun the engine.... for obvious reasons.... do it only after close, looking inside for damage or loose parts.
With great care, you can run the engine with the valve cover off, lots of plastic sheet to catch the oil spray.
It's a last ditch check, but can be very revealing , seeing it work and seeing bad actions or hearing lower noises, now.
On some engines I can see the chain whipping, or hear it's noise , uncovered.
Do not let the fan hit the sheets. ( I just lay 2 sheets, 1 left of Valve cover over finder , left and right side sheets.)
(the Top of some engines, can spray lots of oil, others it only drips, Suzuki has 56 engines. not counting toy machines , and motorcycles.)
Peripheral to engine block noises (accessories, etc) actually not in the engine. But very near and very related.!
First assume the engine is ok. (if unsure of source)
Remove all accessory belts, on any cold engine that makes noise.
I drop all the front belts (no not the cam) and start the engine and run it for 30seconds maximum. an upper limit might be 5min max, watch the temp gauges closely.
The engine is now LOAD free, no ALT, no P/S , NO A/C no water pump.
To see if the noise goes away. ? under these conditions? If it does , smile , engines is good.
Yes, then now you know, it's 1 of 4 things that are bad Alternator, Power steering pump, A/C compressor or water pump. I guess, you can add them back one by one to find the culprit , obvious what to do here.
Man handle,yes there I go again. all 4 dropped parts, do they wiggle, does the pulley move in a non spinning way, is it seized, is it jamming up, is it not free running, is it moving front to rear (yes, bad bearings)
Put back the water pump fan belt now, so you don't forget. (the shared belts make this hard but you could rig up a temporary belt, Measure it , buy one and test it , again.
The 4 items , all 4 have bearings, all that love to fail, all can be hand spun and heard or felt to be grinding or loose. (they must ONLY spin and spin free, no other actions felt, allowed.
If I can't find the noise yet, I then tighten the 4 point mounts on the Alternator. 3 bolts, on the P/S and 3 on the A/C brackets , Accessories brackets, all bolts.
Me, I use my stethoscope (5 bucks) and listen to them all running , front and back of each device, 2 bearing ends each , are they screaming now? at idle.
When this gasket fails (they all do about 200k) the thing allows metal to metal contact.
and SOUNDS exactly like bad rod bearings. !
Loose engine mounts?, torque them down. Wiggle those mounts, by hand, make sure engine mounts are not wrecked and loose and pounded to death.
Even that right side INDUCTION bottom manifold brace. 3 bolts below the intake manifold of 16v love to make noise, (bad service, done)
That lower exhaust header mount, to block ! and the mount itself.
The main Throttle body has this huge metal intake pipe , left to right and has mounts , so torque them !
The main 17mm bolt on the front damper pulley seems to be ignored by all mechanics , it must be set to 94 lb/ft per factory TSB. Or crank damage is for sure. Not reading the TSBs on any car , invites , many thin wallets, or worse.
Take your time and tighten every thing that touches engine , look , carefully and check all bolts near the engine.
Use a pry bar or 1" wood dowel to lever all brakes and mounts to see if things are loose. this is called manhandling parts. Do just gander there, feel it, move it, lever it, and find loose objects.
Get a wrench and torque it the parts to spec.
The fly wheel, to tranny coupling can get loose and can make noise . Inspection cover off , and pry fly wheel front and back and if A/T pry all the parts near the clutch you can looking for looseness.
The whole exhaust system can rattle end to end. and all heat shields on all cars love to rattle. (I've ignored many) The engine shakes hard (4 bangers) and loves to make bad exhaust systems , rattle.
Mostly I'm so busy keeping the leaks in front of my CAT converter, to worry minor exhausting rattles.
Real ENGINE Block noises. (all this below is killing each cylinders firing stroke to see , if that act, causes the rod bearing CLANK ,to shut up)
Probing the block you hear some pounding , clanking or rapping noise.
By now your are worried about the crank and rods and pistons.
If the noise happens, worse cold and then subsides to near or actual nothing , that is mainly, piston slap. Piston slap is not end of the world at all.. read more.
Most Piston slap is harmless. (rarely is it a cracked piston) It loves to end , when warmed up. A top clue here.
Many 2002 Fords and Chevy's all slap new off the production line. (EPA are the jerks here, not GM or FORD) EPA forced the markets to move the rings , upwards , wrecking the piston balance.. Got to love EPA? no !)
Most large 2 stroke racing motor cycles, all slap new, my 400CC Yamaha YT400, did new, and was normal until hot. Horrific slap, day 1. and every cold start, never hot. I sold mine for big bucks, they are collectors bike now. What a rocket that was.
A rod knock, will be worse ,when you a race engine and float the throttle and my get silence under load.
As it gets worse (wear) it will rap continuously, until death. There are no good rod knocks, it's rebuild time. DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR. It can be repaired ,now , but most likely not, if you drive it till BOOM.
The Main bearing, can make noise only, under heavy engine loads. (lucky, this is very rare on this car) This sound is a very deep low frequency nose, like BASS DRUMS (huge)
The #4 rod bearing will fail first, if engine starves for oil at any time.. (#4 is far away from pump and has, less pressure and flow)
SPARK TRICKs, to find the BAD ROD (killing the bang (firing stroke, may/will quiet the rod noise)?
I top pro mechanic, has these thoughts. "First do no harm to YOU (electric shock) or to the car, It be silly, to try to fix one thing, then blow the crap out of your poor , ECU , Igniter, CMP or other $1000 electronics just doing a faulty test. no?
This is no 1940s farm tractor.
To find a bad rod bearing , unplug each injector one, at time running and banging until the noise stops. BINGO.
(or the spark plugs can be shorted to isolate a bad rod bearing)
On DIZZY cars, I use spark insulation special insulated pliers and just yank the boots off spark plugs 1 at a time. Using hands , you will get shocked. (the law of least path of resistance , rules physics...)
On 8v engines, the single injector is near impossible to unplug this, running.
Shorting spark is more friendly, and prevents Dizzy cap cross fire inside, (I bet its dirty too, in there and would love to cross fire. I bet.)
Shorting the spark plugs, are easier on the 8v, but the 16v has deep well plugs, making them harder , on this end of the HV wire set.
Some shops just use a Pro grade insulated plastic wire pulling tools, to pull the wire at the distributor cap top. so as not to get shocked, doing so. 50,000 volts, is no fun to get hit with. Do it only 1 time, and you learn FAST.
I use spark plug extenders , that make all easy access to the spark terminals. (can be modified to work better very easy) Tekton? or many others....
Side issue: 1996+?
Unplugging 1.8L SUZUKI SPORT,COP 4 coils is very very hard to do, on any running engine. But is possible with care. and taking your time. Lots of hair pulling here.
If you have a distributor , there is the sneaky wire trick, by which it take small wire and put the wire, down in the dizzy cap, in all 4 top cap socket spots, so it comes out to the outside of the boot cap. (exposed)
Now I can short the wires, easy,one at a time. (it's tough on the igniter transistor, these dead shorts , so I use a real resistance spark plug wire to end that worry. Or do so, FAST.
Some folks just pull the wires 1 by 1 running and get nailed, (shocked) High voltage follows the least path of resistance, in this case, that be YOU.
The pain can reach infinite and cause you to JERK and get cut real bad, as you extricate yourself uncontrolled. Persons with pacemakers, do not do anything on this page.
I use an old spark wire , that has an alligator clip on one end, and the other is just the stock terminal, I use insulated pliers to do the shorting, on the fly.
You won't get shocked, if the wire is grounded, but if it some how is not?, and you are holding the wire, YOU BECOME GROUND and that hurts real bad. or worse, as you jump and rip your arm all to hell.
There are vast tools sold to do this, but one simple way is to make up a short-able old real spark wire, I cut in to the insulation near the top of the boot and add a ground wire there. Mag wires easy, carbon wire near impossible.
Just cut down to the hot lead inside and wrap, hookup wire copper ends around the HV lead path, then tape it up with duct tape so it can't unravel. Just a short wire then ground it on the fly as you test.
Then when running I use a zero ohm copper shorting wire to touch that new special wire connection. This kills spark dead and is the safest way, for you and your electronics, and no possible cross firing in the dizzy cap.
This is complex only, in that SUZUKI has so many Ignition designs 89-99, 6 or more major changes. I make my own tools here, using solder and RTV for insulation, the most simple of which is just a spark plug extension device. with a terminal on the side,
You just use a ground jumper from engine case to that terminal and touch it and the cylinder spark dies. I use special HV pliers to do all this. Keep in mind protect you first then try not to overload the cars IGNITOR or coil packs.
Take care, please.
http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-23970-In-Line-Recessed/dp/B000OCKJDW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1377536580&sr=8-5&keywords=spark+++tester
Drive line: (noise)
I use my electronic stethoscope to find all of these noises, my wired unit (electronic ear ) has 4 channels and I can let my kid drive and me listen. with 4 microphones to my tranny box.
Then move 2 mikes (microphone slang) to my front axle then rear axle.
The U-joints can not be tested, (but felt loose, (man handled ,again works) and seeing rust dust drip from the U-joint star ends{bearings}, is a slam dunk) So I shot gun them after a give up, on above.
I pay for this, never do I try it: below:
In a Pro shop, they use a lift and spin it all up and listen, and is very dangerous. Never try this at home. Rotating drive parts can suck you in and cause limitless damage to your body, (no long sleeves...... for sure)
Service the wheel bearings. (inspect them. spin them , listen to them , feel them, flex them at 3by9 and 6x12pm for flex) jacked up.
Service the locking hubs on 4x4 cars, they make noise if ignored. you can remove them and then notice, gee the noise stopped. Easy as pie.
Suspension:
Complex, most issues, can not be seen or felt, due to spring tension on the parts.
The Front lower A-arm inboard mounts, the bolts can fall off, so look there.
The Front struts, the top pivot , area, can can be loose or rusted through. Inspections.
You can bounce car bumper end, there and listen for noise or other person bounces and you look for odd movements in the strut and related parts. Inspections.
Tranny.? (no , not a sex change, the transmission)
I will not cover transmission noise , there are 3 transmissions, and transfer case and can make noise in any gear or all , and so can any clutch made.
Talk to your tranny man. let him diagnose it for little cash. (but if the 5sp, makes noise, in neutral, clutch pedal ,UP, the bearing in the tranny are bad, or the clutch is bad , most likely the throw out bearing)
But I did mention the electronic ear, that lets you listen to the box. to see which part is making noise.
Brakes: Read TSB TSB is TS-01-10-10265 first. (for normal noise and NOT)
Loose wheel bearing and bad brakes make noise. Inspection time. This would be the last thing to ignore. Do not drive any vehicle with pulling, grabbing, or noisy brakes. (or low pedal or spongy pedal)
One guy had a car that only made noise, in right turns only. (fun to watch my fellow mech. at work)
The builder at GM , left the tranny ID tag sticking outward (an alum. p/n tag) and only hit the body, in accelerating full load right turns. dang !
(found , up high on a huge HD lift, 1 driver , 1 looker/ listener not touching..., driver is radically driving , on the HUGE HYD. rack , dragging brakes.......)
Horrid noises, but 100% safe to car owner and car, but dangerous as hell, to find. Be a shame to get hurt finding a harmless noise maker,,,,,,,
Inspections work.
rev 4 +12-12-2010 , 8-26-2013 v4