tps fault.

[avaconirl]

Hello to all. The problem I have is the surge from 2k revs down to 1.5k and back up again and repeating. I have set as per instructions on fixkick.com but to no avail, have replaced with a new with the same fault rearing its ugly head. Code that is coming up is 45. It is the tps with the cable attached. The car is a 1997 vitara built by santana in Spain with an 8v engine.
Any help would be great as I am at my wits end.
P.S. I had this problem last year and after a reset all was well untill about 2 weeks ago.
Many thanks in advance.

[fixkick]

DO you have full engine power?
first Santana ever. welcome ! !!!!
, 8v , EFI ,code 45, if that code repeats, after the reset with DOme fuse, its real
Idle Switch Circuit , grounded all the time. Part of TPS sensor. (too low) or Maladjusted.
The ECU never lies, here,

setting the TPS idle switch is daunting. (or its even bad.) it must be calibrated with the Dashpot retracted.
the first step are to see if it even works at all..
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS...tage_tests




keep in mind surging , has many causes. (lean or ECU caused?)
1: TPS dead or not calibrated or wrongly
2: lean Air fuel mixtures, all cause surge and bogging. (say a clogged injector)
3: some intake air leaks, if the leak varies, say a gasket is broken and fluttering open and closed. stuff happens.
4: dash pot not retracting after 5 to 30 seconds on a startup. The ISC will hunt.

the 8v TBI , always races fast , with any type of air leak.

if the leak gets excessive the IDLE speed controller (ISC) will go nuts trying to gain control of idle and then hunts to find it. (the software servo loop does that magic)


is DP retracted, (1 second look bam)
are the throttle cables slack per FSM, not tight. (up to 3 cables with cruise and A/T)
does the throttle plate (brass plate) in the TB fully close 100% with DP retracted by hand engine off? key OFF> Yes/no.
those are first checks there are more.

the TPS checks are here
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS...tage_tests

[avaconirl]

DO you have full engine power?

first Santana ever. welcome ! !!!!
, 8v , EFI ,code 45, if that code repeats, after the reset with DOme fuse, its real
Idle Switch Circuit , grounded all the time. Part of TPS sensor. (too low) or Maladjusted.
The ECU never lies, here,

setting the TPS idle switch is daunting. (or its even bad.) it must be calibrated with the Dashpot retracted.
the first step are to see if it even works at all..
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS...tage_tests




keep in mind surging , has many causes. [b](lean or ECU caused?)[/b?
1: TPS dead or not calibrated or wrongly
2: lean Air fuel mixtures, all cause surge and bogging. (say a clogged injector)
3: some intake air leaks, if the leak varies, say a gasket is broken and fluttering open and closed. stuff happens.
4: dash pot not retracting after 5 to 30 seconds on a startup. The ISC will hunt.

the 8v TBI , always races fast , with any type of air leak.

if the leak gets excessive the IDLE speed controller (ISC) will go nuts trying to gain control of idle and then hunts to find it. (the software servo loop does that magic)


is DP retracted, (1 second look bam)
are the throttle cables slack per FSM, not tight. (up to 3 cables with cruise and A/T)
does the throttle plate (brass plate) in the TB fully close 100% with DP retracted by hand engine off? key OFF> Yes/no.
those are first checks there are more.

the TPS checks are here
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS...tage_tests

Thanks for the reply, I have followed the instructions on setting the tps as described on the fixkick site. The odd thing is that 1 time in 5 times I drive the car it will behave it's self and drive great. When it has the problem it has full power as always. When I lift off the gas pedel for a junction or the like I can feel a sudden deceleration rather then a gradual slowing down. When you are at a junction trying to move on the car will jolt and hop like a kangaroo.
I hope this may shed some light on the prob
Thanks.

[fixkick]

the idle speed ever drop lower that 800 rpm hot? or near stall, and engine shakes?
if yes, it will be a sticking EGR.
if not that, that hope sounds to me like
1: TPS bad
2: TPS not calibrated right.

is this a auto or stick shift.?

the tps cal should be . at .016" inches. (0.40 mm)

that RPM drop, sounds like the ISC is sticking, like the EGR both need cleaning from time to time.
but that HOP, deal , is TPS like, to me.
if the TPS, is set too open too late, it will do that. (in fact the idle controls will fight the drivers advancing right toe) and ugly effect this is.
i do not have a Santana book, so must assume the .026" calibration is the same.

and is done with the dash pot defeated.

[avaconirl]

Thanks
with the Dashpot vacuumed off the throttle cam I have been setting at 16 with the12 and 20 go/nogo sequence per fixkick have been reading the wrong section, so will now set it to 26 instead, I think I have cleaned the isc valve about a year ago but it will do no harm to do it again. The car is a manual.
Again thanks.

.dare to be differant
[/quote]

[fixkick]

i think your car uses the 0.016" setting, like the 91 to95's year here, my page is usa cars made in CAMI canada.
do you have a photo of your throttle body.?

set the gap to 0.016"
with the dash pot retracted. set it, so the switch just drops below 300 ohms.

the other 2 gauges are for validation. checks. only

---

my matrix table shows them all.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS...tml#matrix
my wild guess is after the USA ended TBI cars in 1995, i see other countries used them up to year 2001 about.


but ive never seen any Santana.
wiki
Santana broke its relations with Suzuki in 2009
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS...tml#matrix

[avaconirl]

The throttle boby I have is a single injector type if this helps.
I have done a voltage test as per fixkick
Test 1 probe a 4.8volts
Test 2 probe d 0.8volts
Test 3 probe b 0.8>>>4.8volts
Test 4 probe c 0.07volts when I remove the vacuum from the Dashpot it goes to about 2volts and falls
Have checked the wire blue/white from the ecu connection to the tps connection and it is good ( no breaks)
Is the 5v coming out from the ecu or can I back feed from a>>>>c.
I feel there is dry solder break in the ecu ?????????.




[/quote]

[fixkick]

those are good voltages, but the feeler gauges setting coordinates, timing of the TPS cut in and cut out and is critical setting on all G16A TBI engines.

your +5vrefr , voltage is ok, its from the ECU 5v reg, and yours is perfect.
leave it be, or risk damaging the ECU.

45 DTC errors,
means the ECU (did you reset and retry it?) the ECU saw the idle switch closed, when vacuum dropped greatly.
it thinks you stepped on the throttle pedal, and the wonders (sic) that the TPS switch is stuck low. the ECU is not brilliant, it only knows , the switch, plenum vacuum. and RPM and throttle angles, in many cases it can get confused. (would take a bad MAP to cause that, manybe)
so it sometimes can mess up. but that is not what i think is going on, what I DONT know, is if you are RESETTING the 45s.
DTCs are stored in memory, and old data is pretty much useless , after all it can be 6 months or a year old data.)



you have 2 symptoms, only, surge and 45s.
the sure are related.
Its very hard to get 45s , im also told that some ECU mix up these 2 codes. 44/45/?


i need to know if YOUR TB has an air bleed. screw
the bleed screw was added to ours in 1991,
but if missing means, the calibration is totally different.

when the idle pin (TPS Pin c)wire is cut, the voltage goes low , the ECU has a pulldown resistor . for safety, down means , control idle now. .
89-95 usa.

what that means is if the wire is cut, the 45 happens.
or if the TPS is bad. same (bad switch)
or if the TPS is set wrong, same. that is, calibrated wrong using the wrong feeler gauge or guessed it or done wrong.

tell me the bleed answer first, i should have asked first. A photo front of TB would help. and if the idle stop screw is slotted, and not Allen internal hex.

the top of your TB should look just like this, exactly
if yes, the feeler is 0.016? (Dash pot retracted, we turn the TPS body until it just hits, below 300 ohms) on the threshold, ( infinity, infinity, then bam below 500 or 300 ohms) lock it down. Do not allow over/under travel of the TPS, it must be on the threshold.

did you reset the ECU DTC errors. and drive to see if the 45 stay cleared.????

[avaconirl]

Before a reset I disconnect the battery. After reset the code is 12 when the fault reoccurs it is 45.
Yesterday after the voltage checks I drove the car for about 1 hour with a few stop starts and it was perfect. This happens with the car for a few days it would be ok then throw up a 45. Yes I have the bleed screw throttle body.
By idle pin do you mean the isc valve this I have cleaned and it works ok with a 12v feed from battery, I have not yet checked for ecu voltage at it or for continuity yet.
The throttle boby you show is like the one I have I have to resize my photos in order to send will send later.
Thanks.

[fixkick]

45 are real , in all cases. only why is the question.
the pin C line is stuck low. ( Pin C ,cut, or the switch is bad, or the switch opens too late.)

sorry, idle pin , i mean pin C, the TPS, ilde switch pin.

---

The only question is how to find it. (with no scan tools that is hard,)
with a scan tool we can see what the ECU sees, but not in this car, we must work blind... blinded.
there are only 2ways, find it. 3 really
1 replace it.
2 recalibrate it at .016" exactly on the threshold and do the go and nogo test to be sure its right.
when the switch is closed is it below 500 ohm?

3; attach DMM volt meter, to this wire to this C line. blue-white, near ECU and monitor it. constantly. ( very hard to do and a pain, and even more so as its is intermittent)

Facts: all TPS die, most are toast by 200k miles. seen 150k and 100k, so they die due to just wear on the carbon rings.

connector pins at TPS corroded.
ECU's can some time be reseated and they work,better but the pins there for wire C are gold flashed. and are very reliable until some person goes underwater, or drives with a windshield broken.

---

have you looked at the blue-white wire at ECU yes, for damage. some one cut it , in error doing alarm installs or audios systems, or worse, dang, remote starts.

the ECU pin that is faulting is pin A14
blue-white.
see that here.

---

one other thing can set 45s
the dash pot. say the DP vsv valve sticks open and the DP sticks out extended, this will trip 45s (and RPM SCREAMS a this failure)
so will a tight throttle cable, prevent the tps from closing.
all we know is that it does fail. to close , not why.