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Sidekick Sport new longblock throwing P0335 - J23 Swap
#1
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Greetings FixKick and affectionados...

Such a great site for good info and conversation....

I'm Stumped here.

Just put an ATK rebuilt J23 long block in my '97 Sidekick Sport 4 speed automatic.  Included new CMP and CKP sensors, and am using the J23 fuel rail and cleaned/tested J23 injectors.  I visually replicated the positioning of the original CMP upon assembly.

Started right up with no codes, and allowed me to get it up to temperature.   I shorted the service connector, bumped the timing to 5 deg, and cycled it through restarts and exercised it up and down from idle.  Idled smoothly, with good throttle response.  After about 4-5 minutes, i noticed it started a shallow vibration at idle that would go away ~1200 RPM.     Shutting it down, I noticed the CEL on.  Reread the codes to see a P0335 Crankshaft Position Sensor code.   Erased the code.  Restarted the engine and the code reappears in less than 1 second.

Here's what I've done so far to troubleshoot:

1.  Disconnected CKP connector. Wire loom connections are solid and continuous from CPK plug to disconnected computer connector pins.  Back-probed ground wire is solid at sensor connector.  No shorts.  Resistance of unplugged sensor coil ~560 ohms, both at sensor and at computer connector.

2.  Repeated 5 times over several days: 
Upon cold start, it starts right up, fast idles nicely, comes off fast idle normally. NO CODES.  After 3-4 minutes, when it reaches temperatures between 150-165F, it throws the code.  Shut it off, clear the code, restart, code shows in ~1 second.  Repeatedly.   Each cold start, there is no code. If I shut off and restart before reaching that temperature range, no code shown, no shallow vibration... .  Repeatedly.

Without a scope to watch the waveforms, I'm stuck, and may end up having taking it to a trusted garage for further probing, unless someone here has any experiences with like-kind issues.

Any ideas? 

Maybe recommendations for a good two channel automotive ocilloscope for my tool chest?

Thanks

   
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#2
i can only guess car has stock 97 sport ECU (and watch out for the COPS , the moved the transistors from fire wall pack to the COPs inside. 97 /98 transitions.

franken_sport, good luck finding any shop that would touch that? 

first off the CKP is on the J20 on rear of block behind the flywheel, yeah. a real MOFO that.

where your Cranks sensor is,  J23 is ive no idea.  nor what car the J23 cam from or year, not me, unstated. yet.



So the 97 ECU does not like the wrong sensor.  and that is not a good thing.  my guess is the j23 sensors output is too weak , mostly at low RPM they are,.

faster they go the more volts (faraday's laws. etc)  the conn is 3 wires but one is shield and other 2 are coil. I think.

it is 2wire sensor, not HALL 3 wire  

so you might try reversing the 2 wires, maybe the ECU will like that.

the ECU uses chip called zero crossing detector and is an Amplifier, (op amp) at idle these can be as low as 1v peak on a scope. 

the only other problem is it can be a loose chain too. (CMP against  CKP sees timing way off and flags it)

these to photos and objects match the signals from the flywheel are not like the j23, I bet. (IDK)

[Image: ckp2.jpg]

[Image: flex4a.jpg]
http://www.fixkick.com
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#3
this j23 from 2004  to 2007 AERIO?>??

https://ecatalog.smpcorp.com/STD/#/vehicles

the Aerio is  listed above all years, as HALL sensor, in the above case has very advanced self calibrating sensor.

the p/n for CKP is 33220-77E00  (parts cat. suzuki)

same for 97 sport as 2004 Aerio.
so must be the slots in the fly wheel are not the same or loose chain.
http://www.fixkick.com
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#4
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Thanks Fixkick,

Yes, the j23 is out of a Suzuki Aerio '04-07, and the CKP sensors are the same hall effect unit.  The long block is a direct bolt-up install, the CKP sensor installation is in the identical location and geometry, and I used the flexplate off the stock J18.  My flexplate, and another I have seen off a junkyard Sport, are different than the one you picture above.  See my pic attached.

   

   

I used the J18 ECU, COPs, oil pan, oil pump pickup tube, and intake manifold (with the J23 rail and injectors/injector harness).  My badly designed J18 cast exhaust manifold was cracked in three places and leaking, so i found that a '99+ Vitara 2.0 welded pipe exhaust manifold and heat shield worked great, looks stock.  

I'm not sure I understand your reference to the slots having a relationship to the CKP, as the metal "can" that covers the sensor coil is inserted through the block and seems to read the teeth on the tone ring on the crankshaft itself.  The tone ring teeth have an angle cut on the rear edge to match the angle of the sensor "can" that sticks downward through the block per your picture.  I stick-measured the mounting hole depth to the toothed ring, and the sensor can must have a clearance of less than 1/16".   

The J18 crank tone ring has 36 evenly spaced teeth with no breaks, and although I did not count the J23 teeth, they seem the same size, beveled shape, and spacing.  I am aware of at least two other successful J23/J18 Sport swaps that do not have the P0335 issue.....

   

If I have to drop the transmission to get to that STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS PC255 {#3222077E00, 3322077E00, 91174660}, the neighbors will probably call the cops.

   
   

I'm going to need to look at those circuits with a two channel scope to see what's happening.

Thanks for your great website, so glad I found it.  It is chock full of useful information and I really enjoy your sense of humor in your writing.
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#5
Oh, also, there is no chain noise with the all new chains, guides etc. I also pre-lubed the engine before first startup with oil via a pressure tank at 100 psi through the oil pressure sensor hole, and yes, it is British standard thread....
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