random CEL

[kthnos]

hi all,

never had issues with the CEL since i first bought the car used (5years ago) when it had a VSS issue which was promptly fixed by me.

recently, after replacing all coolant hoses (etc,etc) i had a CEL indication right after starting the engine. went off by itself within 5-10seconds, so i didn`t had sufficient time to hook up the jumper at DLC to see what code it was. (first question: are these stored? if i hook the jumper at DLC, will i get a reading on previous/stored error messages, or its just displaying current messages?). i think its OBD1 (although made in 1998) because its european/santana made. have used various professinal scantools at local car repair shops (just for the sake of it) in the past with 0 success on actually communicating/connecting to ECU.

a week later i had the same issue: CEL went on within 5 seconds after firing up the engine, then went off by itself within 5-10seconds. exactly the same as the previous occasion. what gives? any ideas?

remarks:
-measured TPS, appears smooth and calibrated.
-measured and cleaned ISC, appears to be good.
-measured coolant temp (the two prong one which goes to the ECU), appears to be just fine (~260ohm hot, ~2Kohm cold).
-no detectible misfire or anything. engine is smooth. timing belt is fine, dizzy is fine as well.
-all ground points measured to be good.
-oxygen sensor is 4 years old (genuine denso), same applies to spark plugs (denso iridium), spark plug wires, dizzy cap and rotor too.
-injectors were recently replaced with genuine nikki inp470 in perfect condition (tested proffessionaly before installation). one of the old ones was in horrible condition.
-injector wiring tested to be good with noid lamps (3mm 12v led parallel to each injector, all flashing as they should).
-EGR valve is 4 years old too. 
-MAF and throttle body cleaned anually with no apparent issues.
-thermostat is 195F, new, genuine suzuki with proper gasket. no leaks anywhere.
-car battery is pretty much new, oversized to 65ah.
-alternator appears to be working just fine (i have a voltmeter on the dash).
-waterpump, timing belt and both front seals (camshaft and crankshaft) are new. 
-new fuel pump (original died a few months ago) and FPR (old one proved to be sticky). pressure meter fitted to fuel rail. 39 psi @ignition, 32psi at idle (sea level).
-no visible or audible exhaust leaks.
-valve lash is proper. engine has (and always had) 0 oil consumption. new pcv valve (genuine suzuki).
-gas is always from the same station. never had any issues. mileage is excellent (about 8l/100km on european '95octane unleaded').

any ideas are welcome!

[kthnos]

FYI, both CEL instances were with vehicle parked and not moving. i think this pretty much excludes the VSS from being the culpit again.

[fixkick]

Vitara 1998, 1.6L/16v, 5door, 5speed, G16BS.  Santana is SPAIN factory, and is not OBD2 compliant at all.

hi all,

never had issues with the CEL since i first bought the car used (5years ago) when it had a VSS issue which was promptly fixed by me.
the CEL Glowing key on then goes out, means I'M OK(ECU) alive and not 100% dead.
the CEL not going out key on , means DTC memory has stored errors, (dome fuse not blown that is) DOME = ECU memory power, full time even key off. (car battery remove also eases codes stored there,
CEL turns on idle or driving same answer, hard errors, stored DLC memory.




recently, after replacing all coolant hoses (etc,etc) i had a CEL indication right after starting the engine. went off by itself within 5-10seconds, so i didn`t had sufficient time to hook up the jumper at DLC  
to see what code it was. (first question: are these stored? (YES)if i hook the jumper at DLC, will i get a reading on previous/stored error messages, YES and NO,or its just displaying current messages?).  
let me explain, if a sensors goes dead (open or shorted) DTC happens in say 1 second flat, if the same sensor self cures it self (they can but will return later for fun) the DTC clears fast too, with some exceptions,  more complex tests, in your country (by your laws) the errors stay there for a few driving cycles, like code 51.  EGR.
the test is mostly done (51 only) one time,  at special driving and moving conditions. and if passes this test, the 51 code erases.
OBD2, in USA is vastly more complex for complex tests (not dead sensors) can take 4 driving cycles to self clear.




It is  not OBD1, (there is no world standard for any OBD1) it is SUZUKI Only oBD1, and nobody makes scan tools for it. nobody. (OTC over the counter)

i think its OBD1 (although made in 1998) because its european/santana made.  correct.
have used various professional scantools at local car repair shops (just for the sake of it) in the past with 0 success on actually communicating/connecting to ECU. (fail it will)
what you need to do is insert the DIAG jumper in the DLC jack and drive for a week with code 12 flashing (12 - happy good)
then if something bad or something fails intermittently , you know know why the CEL was glowing before.
like the codes for idle switch set wrong and TPS not calibrated correctly.

a week later i had the same issue:
CEL went on within 5 seconds after firing up the engine, then went off by itself within 5-10seconds. exactly the same as the previous occasion. what gives? any ideas?
it is best not to guess, DTC,  best it to look, use the 1cent paper clip jumper, and see what it is/was.

remarks:
-measured TPS, appears smooth and calibrated.
-measured and cleaned ISC, appears to be good.
-measured coolant temp (the two prong one which goes to the ECU), appears to be just fine (~260ohm hot, ~2Kohm cold).  GOOD.
-no detectable misfire or anything. engine is smooth. timing belt is fine, dizzy is fine as well.
-all ground points measured to be good.
-oxygen sensor is 4 years old (genuine denso), same applies to spark plugs (denso iridium), spark plug wires, dizzy cap and rotor too.
the O2 sensor front (02S1) will fail (not bad) with any cracks found here, shields off the exhuast manifold see rear tube cracked?
-injectors were recently replaced with genuine nikki inp470 in perfect condition (tested professionally before installation). one of the old ones was in horrible condition.

-injector wiring tested to be good with noid lamps (3mm 12v led parallel to each injector, all flashing as they should).
-EGR valve is 4 years old too. 
-MAF and throttle body cleaned annually with no apparent issues.
-thermostat is 195F, new, genuine suzuki with proper gasket. no leaks anywhere.
-car battery is pretty much new, oversized to 65ah.
-alternator appears to be working just fine (i have a voltmeter on the dash).
-waterpump, timing belt and both front seals (camshaft and crankshaft) are new. 
-new fuel pump (original died a few months ago) and FPR (old one proved to be sticky). pressure meter fitted to fuel rail. 39 psi @ignition, 32psi at idle (sea level).
-no visible or audible exhaust leaks.
-valve lash is proper. engine has (and always had) 0 oil consumption. new pcv valve (genuine suzuki).
-gas is always from the same station. never had any issues. mileage is excellent (about 8l/100km on european '95octane unleaded').

any ideas are welcome!

sure and what  great first post,  super good. nice history and all,
car runs great?
MPG good, 26-28mpg USA or  11 Kilometers / Liter ?
full power up hills.?
tps idle switch calibrated? per manual. (feeler gauge horrors, tedious) we know what to do ask.


drive with the DLC jumper planted.  DLC 4 pins,  B to C jumpered like this.
https://fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html

the rule on this DLC do not drive with jumper on other pins, that is bad.
but the DIAGNOSIS pin is safe,  as it does not change running states, it only adds blinking CEL to the mix.

all the best to you and your Spanish car ! and most welcome you are.

[kthnos]

the CEL not going out key on , means DTC memory has stored errors, (dome fuse not blown that is) DOME = ECU memory power, full time even key off. (car battery remove also eases codes stored there,
CEL turns on idle or driving same answer, hard errors, stored DLC memory.
-gotcha. will try DLC jumper and get back. have done this in the past with the VSS issue, although it was a looong time ago.

It is  not OBD1, (there is no world standard for any OBD1) it is SUZUKI Only oBD1, and nobody makes scan tools for it. nobody. (OTC over the counter)

i think its OBD1 (although made in 1998) because its european/santana made.  correct.
have used various professional scantools at local car repair shops (just for the sake of it) in the past with 0 success on actually communicating/connecting to ECU. (fail it will) 
-sounds like master yoda`s voice to me, but thanks for telling me this: i had no idea obd1 was specialized by individual auto-makers.

what you need to do is insert the DIAG jumper in the DLC jack and drive for a week with code 12 flashing (12 - happy good)
then if something bad or something fails intermittently , you know know why the CEL was glowing before.
like the codes for idle switch set wrong and TPS not calibrated correctly.
-hmmm, then maybe i should recalibrate TPS -although i have a feeling its electrically involved issue, because i mangled and twisted a few cables here and there while replacing the coolant hoses. nothing serious (or visually profound), but thats my wild guess atm.


-oxygen sensor is 4 years old (genuine denso), same applies to spark plugs (denso iridium), spark plug wires, dizzy cap and rotor too.
the O2 sensor front (02S1) will fail (not bad) with any cracks found here, shields off the exhuast manifold see rear tube cracked?
-no cracks, i had a new header (stainless steel), new cat, new muffler and new piping installed last year. 0 leaks (and i check for any kind of leaks every time i change my oil & filter; every 6months that is).

sure and what  great first post,  super good. nice history and all,
car runs great?
MPG good, 26-28mpg USA or  11 Kilometers / Liter ?
full power up hills.?
-i get about 8l/100km on european 95octane gas, which should be like 30 or so mpg?
-i experienced full power only after i replaced the injectors. about 20% more power (butt-dyno). 

tps idle switch calibrated? per manual. (feeler gauge horrors, tedious) we know what to do ask.
-i did that 5 years ago, but maybe its time to do it again?

drive with the DLC jumper planted.  DLC 4 pins,  B to C jumpered like this.
https://fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html

the rule on this DLC do not drive with jumper on other pins, that is bad.
but the DIAGNOSIS pin is safe,  as it does not change running states, it only adds blinking CEL to the mix.
all the best to you and your Spanish car ! and most welcome you are.
-thank you! FYI, engine engravings on the engine block say 'made in Japan'.

[fixkick]

the CEL not going out key on , means DTC memory has stored errors, (dome fuse not blown that is) DOME = ECU memory power, full time even key off. (car battery remove also eases codes stored there,
CEL turns on idle or driving same answer, hard errors, stored DLC memory.
-gotcha. will try DLC jumper and get back. have done this in the past with the VSS issue, although it was a looong time ago.

It is  not OBD1, (there is no world standard for any OBD1) it is SUZUKI Only oBD1, and nobody makes scan tools for it. nobody. (OTC over the counter)

i think its OBD1 (although made in 1998) because its european/santana made.  correct.
have used various professional scantools at local car repair shops (just for the sake of it) in the past with 0 success on actually communicating/connecting to ECU. (fail it will) 
-sounds like master yoda`s voice to me, but thanks for telling me this: i had no idea obd1 was specialized by individual auto-makers.

what you need to do is insert the DIAG jumper in the DLC jack and drive for a week with code 12 flashing (12 - happy good)
then if something bad or something fails intermittently , you know know why the CEL was glowing before.
like the codes for idle switch set wrong and TPS not calibrated correctly.
-hmmm, then maybe i should recalibrate TPS -although i have a feeling its electrically involved issue, because i mangled and twisted a few cables here and there while replacing the coolant hoses. nothing serious (or visually profound), but thats my wild guess atm.


-oxygen sensor is 4 years old (genuine denso), same applies to spark plugs (denso iridium), spark plug wires, dizzy cap and rotor too.
the O2 sensor front (02S1) will fail (not bad) with any cracks found here, shields off the exhuast manifold see rear tube cracked?
-no cracks, i had a new header (stainless steel), new cat, new muffler and new piping installed last year. 0 leaks (and i check for any kind of leaks every time i change my oil & filter; every 6months that is).

sure and what  great first post,  super good. nice history and all,
car runs great?
MPG good, 26-28mpg USA or  11 Kilometers / Liter ?
full power up hills.?
-i get about 8l/100km on european 95octane gas, which should be like 30 or so mpg?
-i experienced full power only after i replaced the injectors. about 20% more power (butt-dyno). 

tps idle switch calibrated? per manual. (feeler gauge horrors, tedious) we know what to do ask.
-i did that 5 years ago, but maybe its time to do it again?

drive with the DLC jumper planted.  DLC 4 pins,  B to C jumpered like this.
https://fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html

the rule on this DLC do not drive with jumper on other pins, that is bad.
but the DIAGNOSIS pin is safe,  as it does not change running states, it only adds blinking CEL to the mix.
all the best to you and your Spanish car ! and most welcome you are.
-thank you! FYI, engine engravings on the engine block say 'made in Japan'.

wow 8liters is super super good mpg. no lie .
butt dyno's rule!

yes Iwata japan ships engines to many suz assembly plants,   even our old closed,now CAMI plant in Canada;  (with uSA radiators ,tires, glass, wipers , battery and more... oddly)

i always look inside any ECU first. for cap warping, even pull the corner one and measure Ufarad's, with my meter, but once pulled my head goes.  gee I have spare caps.
why do this twice,  then for sure with super good new caps. (imo)
your caps may be heat sensitive, ok cool fail hot or reverse.
they (caps) are all  mostly 20 year rated, the caps are the shortest lived parts in electronics (just below batteries) just electrolytic's, not the others.

reCAPing  old things is not new, everyone does this on computers, cars,  and even my ham rigs. (relics 1975, one is 2,400v caps here... yah lethal )

Possilble:?
One more cause,  someone hacked the speedo cluster wires using wrong cluster and all have different connectors so some wise guys hack good speedo and hack the wires to find your
16v car. (the clusters are super variants, see my cluster H3LL here.)
and now CEL is wired wrong, or shorted to ground do to some odd things there.

we do know the Santana   flash out DTC codes, for sure. whit that jumper. ( colored wire)

[fixkick]

there is one, web scan too
by rhino man.
https://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/...hp?tid=470

https://fixkick.com/hacking/hacked/addre...acked.html

https://rhinopower.activeboard.com/f4891...-software/

[kthnos]

well, didn`t had any other instances of CEL since last week, but i did put on the jumper to see if there is any stored in DTC. guess what? code 54 (TPS probably). need to re-calibrate and possibly check the wiring.

why would the cluster be hacked you believe? i didn`t had any CEL issues for the past 4 years (since i had the VSS gone bad and replaced back then myself).

thanks for all the help once again!