Problem to start when the engine is hot

[LuisCarlos]

yah it's not CO2, (a bad running engine has low C02 , high HC, or high NOX,(egr dead), or high CO, i bet your mechanic meant to say if fail CO.
CO is not CO2. not at all.
you heard wrong or the mech, said it wrong. sorry but lacking the real failed certificate, we get errors in translations.
CAMERA's , my camera takes 75" wide photos, ELEPHANTS, the file sizes are HUGE. [5Mb] and would fill up our database SQL (free) fast.

Hello Fix!!
Well, for the momente the vitara is still in the workshop, the mech tlod me last thursday that the Oxygene sensor came wrong, it's from Santana and with four cables but wrong coupler, so I'm waiting to see what to do about, what a nightmare!!

all photos posted to the net need to be resized, called desk top size or web sized)
the cure is simple , use "PC paint" any graphic editor made, and click, (keep aspect ratio) then resize to 1020pixels, wide.
the save as jpg with 25% compression.
now photos are tiny. and all load , doing so you can have 1000 photos here.

does your smog station us a 5 gas machine (or some 1980s CO meter?)


No, they don't have any..

the 5gas machine (tool) is best shows whats happening best.
are you running win10? (i think this works 1995 to now)

I have Window 7..

click start then in the run box type, paint (old pc paint still works)
paint runs
now open the photo the size of elephant. (click file , find it) then
next click , the resize icon.
click maintain xxxxxx [x]
click pixels
type 1020 in the horz. box.
click file , save-as, new name (i mark mine as 1w, for web size)
or use this program.
to do a batch at once
FS resizer
http://www.faststone.org/FSResizerDetail.htm
i keep a desktop folder called photos.
then use FSresizer to size the them all in one fell swoop.

the gallery has a built in resizer, but can not handle, elephants. as seen on most new camera's

the quota limit is 20MB.
I run ezgallery pro upgrade (paid for)
but has limits. (ill see if I can , set them to better scales)

Is not easy to me all of this, I'll see your next answers and I'll try to do everthing about to post photos in gallery..
Thanks you very much..

---

the new limits are now 30mb quote

the mix inputted file size is 4mb per photo, the system will auto shrink this to 1024 x768 Wide,tall or less.
the max inputted pixel input is 4000 wide or tall. (the server has limits PHP& SQL, that ezgallery can not violate ). (<i cant change)
4000px max is 35" x 37" (less than a yard wide. grin) stay below this limit please.
the exgallery resizer, crashes (dies) above that. (sad face.)

My last photo I wanted to post has 389 KB, that is right, I can reduce sizes by my camera..
So each photo has to have 4MB to post them?..
I'm going to try to post a new photo, it has 3'38 MB, is from ISC and IAC in the new TBI..

i also corrected a bug , (x), this x , turns on , medium file sizes, that will now make all added photo files sizes very small and not fill up the quota so fast.
more testing now.

Right, i'm going to see next comment after try post that photo..

---

i shrunk all your photos 5:1 at least.
what is your quota now?
you now have room.

Right!! You can see a new photo in the gallery again, so I know better how to post any photo, they have to have 4MB as maximum..
I'll try to reinsert last photo I removed..

I'll try to post that 3,98KB again..

See you in the next..

---

when your 1.6L engine runs perfect, in closed loop , you will see that
the CO2 is at max. at perfect burn and a CAT that is hot, working like new, makes more (adds) to total CO2 emitted. "NORMAL"!


Yes, I know what is CAT now, is the catalizador in Spanish, I think it's clean because when I use the vitara is always on the road, 50 Km each time, almost nothing in the cuty..


do you understand why? the below equations show this clearly.
then the CAT makes more.(killing HC (raw fuel) and lowering CO. and NOX.

http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Che...Converters



Yes, I see how the converter system working much better, I knew about this part, the manual said 'never need to change' in case it broken only..


THe EGR, is opened and NOX is reduced 1st at the source but never to zero in the combustion chamber
same with HC and CO.
The purpose of the CAT is to cleanup that which the EFI can't clean, at burn time.

in the old days they tuned the car to low CO.
nobody tunes to CO2, unless peaking it. see why.?
when burning at perfect combustion, CO2 is max. it's a goal. not a bad thing.

The only way to lower CO2 is lower DISPLACEMENT.
that lowers engine power, and lowers CO2. (the reason for 1Liter turbos)!
(assumes same engine technology , mr, Otto Cycle)

The worst of all IS CO. (people next engine)
CO, makes your red blood cells , GO OFF LINE. (hyperbaric chamber time, is only hope)


I the engine runs in closed loop at 2500 rpm (scan tool shows this)
and the 02 is new.. (we can get them for $30 here)
and the 02 is not getting hit by air leaks, at the header end there. (exh, manifold end)
then the CAT is NO GOOD.

i really look at all 31 scan tool parameters at the 2500 RPM like a hawk.

id love to see your smog chit, (receipts) number speak load, here.
this car will love to fail
for high NOX first. (EGR dead) i bet your car has no code 51 like ours do.
then High HC, (bad cat or engine so rich the cat runs red hot, and cant keep up)
last CO high, CO will be high with HC high , due to incomplete combustion.

CO2 is now not an issue ,but will be too low, on engine running bad.
if you burn all the fuel HC< CO2 goes max.

top lower CO2, you'd have to kill a cylinder dead, (spark and fuel). or lower the compression ratio.
or the easy way like on old race cars (with illegal sized engines. say a 350cubic inch in a 300 cube race. (we did this hard top racing)
the Throttle valve, restriction plate.! (we had to use one)
less air, less fuel, less CO2. (and less power)

Well, for the moment I'll wait to have the vitara again with a new Oxygene sensor, perhaps tomorrow could be..
After that I'll go to the Technical Inspection to pass it..

Ihope that matter about pproblem in hot will be finished about before the end 2016..
I hope that not be a real prophecy of the future..

Cheers!!

---

Great!! PCV valve is posted too..
Before that same photo was not possible to post..
Perhaps,because you shrunk them as you said..

Cheers!!

[fixkick]

yes, there are many 0s sensors
yours must be the 3 wire sensor.
its very confusing whit so many kinds
i did more gallery tests, and it does have a bug... it resizes ok but as a max size. inputted, due to the memory limit of the the server. kinda pain that.

i made a new table that gets all sensor deviants

http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/OxyGen_se...ml#unified

my guess is your car uses 3 wire round pin , 02.

[LuisCarlos]

yes, there are many 0s sensors
yours must be the 3 wire sensor.
its very confusing whit so many kinds
i did more gallery tests, and it does have a bug... it resizes ok but as a max size. inputted, due to the memory limit of the the server. kinda pain that.

i made a new table that gets all sensor deviants

http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/OxyGen_se...ml#unified

my guess is your car uses 3 wire round pin , 02.

Yes, you are right, it use a three wire sensor, it's installed now.. And from Suzuki original $213, you can see it in photo gallery..
I have an appoitment on January 14 to the ITV (Inspection Technical Vehicles)..

But you know, when I was checking the vitara two days ago, I saw that the distributor cap has worn terminals, you can see photo in gallery..
So I'm going to buy a new one and with a new rotor too, because the wires from distributor to spark plugs are new also they have about three thousand km only.. I thought the mech had checking it I told him to do it and engine tuning and everything the vitara needed, but..

Perhaps this worn terminals are involved about 02 problems, the spark pluugs don't working correctly and gasoline doesn't burn well in the engine..
Perhaps, for that the spark plugs have whitish color instead brown color next to spark plugs electrodes.. But that is an idea only..

Well, I hope distributor cap don't need almost two weeks to come as O2 sensor..

Cheers and thanks!!

[fixkick]

bosch sells o2 for $25-50 USD and they invented it. $200 is stealer ship prices.. we have same here.
bosch sells, cap and rotor too, both very affordable.
the inside, outer terminals do wear, it's not a problem at all from electro-migration effects, and is a gap there at rotor to terminal , and it arcs there as it spins,..all very normal..
what matters is bad plastic there, if it carbon tracks. that is bad. Usually caps and rotors list until the plastics fail. not the metal..
a new 02 can give you better cruising MPG, (fuel economy)
white tips spark plug, is great. the unleaded fuel today burns clean. let it... some brands are super clean burning....
white or very light gray or very light cream colors on old spark plugs. are normal.

find a store that stocks NGK or BOSCH part,s they are both fantastic parts, ISO9000 rated too.
i never buy parts from suzuki if the after market sells them... why make suzuki rich? for zero gain.?
including SMP, company sensors.

but im here and you are there.
and ive idea what's sold in your car stores,

---

I looked your cap
some one either:
1: installed rotor, not fully seated
2: wrong rotor.
3: wrong cap, id hope not.
that is gross , having the rotor act a buz saw.....

the real rotors only fit 1 way (has metal key) seen on stock(Mitsubishi) and Bosch (they even say, fits on one way, like the new rotor did)
if someone attempted force it on wrong, wrong, this can happen but would not start. 120 degrees off time,
but they might have cranked the engine over manically for 1/2 hour until they discover, omg, 120degress off time. (that cap must have great story to tell)

grin!

---

some one needs to tell that rotor maker, wow, nice quality , can be used as buzz saw and survive.. totally, amazing....

[LuisCarlos]

bosch sells o2 for $25-50 USD and they invented it. $200 is stealer ship prices.. we have same here.
bosch sells, cap and rotor too, both very affordable.
the inside, outer terminals do wear, it's not a problem at all from electro-migration effects, and is a gap there at rotor to terminal , and it arcs there as it spins,..all very normal..


The Market is very similar to this World getting crazier everyday, at least 90 %..
Well, ay least the vitara has a new 02 sensor, expensive one but what to do?.. Perhaps original spare working much better because engineer calibrations..

what matters is bad plastic there, if it carbon tracks. that is bad. Usually caps and rotors list until the plastics fail. not the metal..


The carbon seem right long and flexible, you can see in a new photo in the gallery, plastic doesn't have cracks, has a small crack next to the set screw you can see it in the right side of the photo, but I think is not important, it's not in the real cap..


a new 02 can give you better cruising MPG, (fuel economy)
white tips spark plug, is great. the unleaded fuel today burns clean. let it... some brands are super clean burning....
white or very light gray or very light cream colors on old spark plugs. are normal.

Right..

find a store that stocks NGK or BOSCH part,s they are both fantastic parts, ISO9000 rated too.
i never buy parts from suzuki if the after market sells them... why make suzuki rich? for zero gain.?
including SMP, company sensors.


The spark plugs are NGK as vitara documentation said, they have about 3000 km only..

but im here and you are there.
and ive idea what's sold in your car stores,

---

I looked your cap
some one either:
1: installed rotor, not fully seated


It's good seated I removed it and set again all the way, you can see it in a new photo..

2: wrong rotor.

It'i as you can see in the Rhino manua in GF 1-9l

3: wrong cap, id hope not.


This cap has four wire only they are to the spark plugs (photo), it's differnet from the manual, but the vitara have been this model all the time, by the way, I don't know where is the ignitor coil, high voltage come to the distributor from a conic piece inside it..

that is gross , having the rotor act a buz saw.....


I think it's original as the manual show, I claned a little bit with iron sand, one of the three frontal contact was complety dirty, is better now..

the real rotors only fit 1 way (has metal key) seen on stock(Mitsubishi) and Bosch (they even say, fits on one way, like the new rotor did)
if someone attempted force it on wrong, wrong, this can happen but would not start. 120 degrees off time,
but they might have cranked the engine over manically for 1/2 hour until they discover, omg, 120degress off time. (that cap must have great story to tell)


It'i Mitsubishu and have only one way, I started it after checking and clean it and not problem at all..

grin!

---

some one needs to tell that rotor maker, wow, nice quality , can be used as buzz saw and survive.. totally, amazing....

Today, I'm going to buy a MST 2800B Multimeter by eBay there is a point to delivery items purchased online, because I never buy by Internet some flight tickit only.. In a shop informatic thay show me how to buy that Multimeter, because I don't know exactly how to do..
This is I want to buy, as you show me before..


Digital Tachometer meter TACH DWELL Tester ... - eBay

I'll tell you what about everything..

Cheers!!

[fixkick]

the cars in Europe
if you look at a real EPC, the real electronic part cats, they have many different distributors there, unlike our ONE. (one per 8v, one pre 16)
but not so there, and then there is the specter of Santana's.... more distribs?
rotor is clearly wrong, for that cap, but in truth, wrong for that distributor, (cap/rotor/dist,) must MATCH. and many DONT there. (same with other parts)
let me get the correct parts numbers for a Santana and then cross them. for you.
now.


to use EBAY here, you must have Paypal.
and that takes a Paypal activation to checking or VISA, or MC etc.
once set up, its a click and go. pay, now.

vsig
Vitara JLK (not a Sidekick )with G16A engine 8 valves, by Santana of Spain mfg plant
the engines there are called TYPES, and they have many types. some with unique distributors and ECU.
finding parts that fit can be hard, aftermarket. do to variances.
ill now get the real suzuki numbers for that engine. DISTRIB.
and see how many suzuki it fits, (can help cross refr, parts)

---

what to do?
to see fair prices, go to rockauto.com
see choices , max and price.
there is no reason to get ripped off.... with those facts known....
400% mark up over retail is wild scalping , IMO. (like dealers do)
then using those part numbers google search for locals that have fair prices....

---

the clue you see is the connector is different on the side of the distributor
this is your clue as to it being so very different inside , too.
i have the SUZUKI parts catalog, world wide. (and book versions,. all very rare now.)
and includes the santana.
more soon,

---

This cap has four wire only they are to the spark plugs (photo), it's differnet from the manual, but the vitara have been this model all the time, by the way, I don't know where is the ignitor coil, high voltage come to the distributor from a conic piece inside it..

i cant understand this.
are you saying the cap is not 5 high voltage wires? that means the induction spark coil is in side the distributor casing.
the coil inside has this tall plastic rod and brass tip, it is the spark coil
ours did this in 1996, the 1995 and older are FIRE WALL Coils. descrete
how many pins on side of distrib base.

[fixkick]

im looking now at all 8v Santana setups.(parts book)
it is not indexed by year, over there. for this car. (small pain)
ok, I found why this is SO hard there. seen it before.
here are the facts,
Santana, in their great wisdom, decides to run a 16v distr, in a 8v engine, starting in 1996. no coil on fire wall. (that would save them big money no lie, 1 distrib 2 engine)
they used the same distrib used in England (E02) and Germany(E22) market codes.... I told you market codes are LAW. and this case proves this fully.
parts number below
Suz, all # (yours and 11 other markets and for sure Market 53 =Spain)
33100-70e00 whole distrib, end to end) (note the 70e code)
33321-70e10 cap
33310-70E00 rotor
QOD: question of the day?
is your dust cap below motor missing? if missing?, spark can flash over and wreck all that lower electronics. there.

so my guess is you are running (pretty sure with that damage I am)
non Santana parts , running Suzuki 8v parts, on a santana does now work..... sorry. thus the huge damage there.
running suffix numbers below are dead wrong on this car.
-56bxx
-60axx
parts, that are all 100% wrong for any 96 + santana.
95 santana even more oddly runs 58Bxx distrib ! ouch.

i guess im the only santana expert,? LOL, not hardly,
but your vin code some where shows the market for your car, SPAIN market code is E53, or code 53, BTW, by the way....

the next year,? ? shows (more horror)
same parts as yours. called the Santana E-III
and last the 1998
omg , Santana reverts to Standard Suzuki distributors the 60a1 ( flip.flop.flip) ouch.

now that IS a tough act to follow..
so if you by the 1996, German 16v cap, it fits. see>? E22 is Germany and fits.

buy a cap and rotor from (bosch) 1996 only. 16v only... not 8v.
in SPAIN,
or England
or Germany
Switzerland
Belgium (4-wheel)
Holland
Portugal
Italy
Austria
Greece.

or take original cap
and ask for 1996 vitara 16v cap, it will match.
to any auto parts store above.
I examined every Santana distrib.
good luck !


btw2
our 1996 engine is 16valve
and no 8v
and the same distributor in ours fits yours, same part numbers. just checked.

[LuisCarlos]

the cars in Europe
if you look at a real EPC, the real electronic part cats, they have many different distributors there, unlike our ONE. (one per 8v, one pre 16)
but not so there, and then there is the specter of Santana's.... more distribs?
rotor is clearly wrong, for that cap, but in truth, wrong for that distributor, (cap/rotor/dist,) must MATCH. and many DONT there. (same with other parts)
let me get the correct parts numbers for a Santana and then cross them. for you.
now.

But these pieces, distributor cap, and roto, are the same that the vitara have been since I bought it in 1996, Santana made some model of this vitara only, has different parts as are normal in another vitaras, as DLC next to the headlight instead next to the battery, ignitor coil inside distributor or the glove compartment in the dashboard different from other model..

to use EBAY here, you must have Paypal.
and that takes a Paypal activation to checking or VISA, or MC etc.
once set up, its a click and go. pay, now.

I bought this MST 2800B from U.S.A by eBay using PayPal, it will come next week..
I'll do duty cycle, r.pm and all kind of measurements I can do..
Thanks for recommend also that device..


http://www.ebay.es/itm/Digital-Tachomete...Dh0EgR2TbQ

vsig
Vitara JLK (not a Sidekick )with G16A engine 8 valves, by Santana of Spain mfg plant
the engines there are called TYPES, and they have many types. some with unique distributors and ECU.
finding parts that fit can be hard, aftermarket. do to variances.
ill now get the real suzuki numbers for that engine. DISTRIB.
and see how many suzuki it fits, (can help cross refr, parts)

---

what to do?
to see fair prices, go to rockauto.com
see choices , max and price.
there is no reason to get ripped off.... with those facts known....
400% mark up over retail is wild scalping , IMO. (like dealers do)
then using those part numbers google search for locals that have fair prices....

---

the clue you see is the connector is different on the side of the distributor


Yes, I did some photo of this distributor cap to compare before buy a new one distributor cap and rotor..
I have been researching in Google but i couldn't find any.. In SEKIDO japanese parts I found them but when I use these references to find in Google appear only all kind of distributors caps in the Market but with five wire, and the rotor are different too..
The drawing you can see in photo gallery is fron SEKIDO page but these reference don't MATCH with these pieces..


this is your clue as to it being so very different inside , too.
i have the SUZUKI parts catalog, world wide. (and book versions,. all very rare now.)
and includes the santana.
more soon,

---

This cap has four wire only they are to the spark plugs (photo), it's differnet from the manual, but the vitara have been this model all the time, by the way, I don't know where is the ignitor coil, high voltage come to the distributor from a conic piece inside it..

i cant understand this.
are you saying the cap is not 5 high voltage wires? that means the induction spark coil is in side the distributor casing.
the coil inside has this tall plastic rod and brass tip, it is the spark coil


Yes, distributor has four wires only, and the spark coil is inside and the hidh current come to the carbon across that rod brass tip..
You say in one of your page that some vitara model in U.SA has that system..

ours did this in 1996, the 1995 and older are FIRE WALL Coils. descrete
how many pins on side of distrib base.

The connector has seven pins or at lees seven wires, you can see it in photo gallery..
I think that rotor is worn, and you can see a small crack next to that set screw in distributor cap, I removes cap because I saw that crack, perhaps there is not problem for the moment, and for that I thought to buy a new onw cap too..

[fixkick]

ok found all your photos.
in actuators
that is a 70E distrib, the side of same will have plate with 70E on it.
its Santana distrib.
the 7 pins on the connector are on 3 like our 8v.
the coil is inside, unlike any here, on 8v with ignitor.
the rotor is undamaged

so the maker of that cap machines it like that. very odd and means the casings are crude, never seen anything like it, but fun to witness this.


why does that list of parts, show no 70E distrib.? for your 8v santana?



sorry i retact my statement.
if that rotor shown was with that cap its whole life, then the cap is normal.
keep in mind see many rotors installed wrong or wrong index as our G16b loves to do, not seated and does same deal, eats up the cap, vast times.... so
so its cap made in a crude way, and extra machining step. that most never need.

---

the distributor side on all real suzukis shows its partnumber
mine would be
33100-70e00 (last 2 or 3 digits can vary for revisions)
means
whole
dist.

---

here is our 7 wire. 70Exx

see the 7 wires.?

---

see all my drawing mod's to show exactly how it really works.
hall sensor.
a real ignition. transistor and comments.

---

the short answer
is a Santana is not a Vitara. as the world uses.
its got mod;'s

they should of called it SanTara. LOL, or like in Canada, the Sunbird,

[LuisCarlos]

ok found all your photos.
in actuators
that is a 70E distrib, the side of same will have plate with 70E on it.
its Santana distrib.
the 7 pins on the connector are on 3 like our 8v.
the coil is inside, unlike any here, on 8v with ignitor.
the rotor is undamaged


Well, I noted in my notebook 70E distributor if I need to buy any later on, for the moment I think it's good..
I'll look if there is any plate in distributor to confirm it..

so the maker of that cap machines it like that. very odd and means the casings are crude, never seen anything like it, but fun to witness this.


why does that list of parts, show no 70E distrib.? for your 8v santana?


Because these reference number are next to the distributor and rotor parts and the drowing is showing the same that 70E distributor..




sorry i retact my statement.
if that rotor shown was with that cap its whole life, then the cap is normal.
keep in mind see many rotors installed wrong or wrong index as our G16b loves to do, not seated and does same deal, eats up the cap, vast times.... so
so its cap made in a crude way, and extra machining step. that most never need.

---

the distributor side on all real suzukis shows its partnumber
mine would be
33100-70e00 (last 2 or 3 digits can vary for revisions)

I noted this reference too, for the moment I'll go to Suzuki parts shop and to 4X4 Land shop to see what they have or say..

means
whole
dist.

---

here is our 7 wire. 70Exx

see the 7 wires.?

Yes, I see them they are in the down side and on the left corner, inside of that rectangle..
I can see the Igniter and ignition coil too..

---

see all my drawing mod's to show exactly how it really works.
hall sensor.
a real ignition. transistor and comments.

---

the short answer
is a Santana is not a Vitara. as the world uses.
its got mod;'s
they should of called it SanTara. LOL, or like in Canada, the Sunbird,

Yes, some parts are from Santana and other from Suzuki, the mech told me that, he told me too that Santana bought all Suzuki parts when Suzuki leaving Linares Factory some years ago..


Well, I have another good news I did CEL with DLC, I used a service wire from Diagnostic Request Trminal to Ground Terminal, and the result was No. 12. without faillure.. But when I went to post it in Gallery it said quote limited again, but that photo has 373 KB only less than the lasts photos I posted'..
And I have a video of flashes of that test showing how Check Engine Light work, that video last 8 second only and has 14,7 MB, but Idon't know how to post it..

Sorry for that, but I think it will be very usefull and to help other people..
The only way I can do is sending that video to your mail address if you give permission, of course, then I'll send you it..
I sent it to a friend and he saw it very well..


On the other hand, we konw now there is any faillure in the Electronis System Injection, rest only to wait MST 200B come from Las Vegas to do the Duty Cycle to regulate that duck idle we have long term..
Anyway I think and after that Check Engine Test, the idle problem can be from a differnet part outside of TBI, but this idea, because is an idea only, came me after that code No. 12. test means witout faillure..
I'll tell you a crancking historial that I have ready to tell you after you tell me about this last test..

So, I'll wait your reply and comments about video and photos too and no hurry, of course.


Cheers!!