Problem to start when the engine is hot

[LuisCarlos]

Hi,Fixkick!!
Well, today I'll go to the mech again, two days ago he said me 'I'll call you when the head oh Santana told me what to do about new ISC', but the new PCV arrived from Santana ii's in the shop Land 4X4 car parts, so I'll take it, and the mech is nearby of it so I'll go to the workshop to know what happen..
I hope before Santa Claus is gone the vitara case will be over..

I bought a new allen wrench 4,5 mm, that's the real measure, I clened the hex screw of all sealed material, and wuth 3x1 liquid to lossen screws, so the hex turn very well now, but I set it as he came fron Factory, waiting the mech will do the cycle duty, or what to do about from Santana says..

Anyway, I prefer to learn how to do duty cycle by myself and other measure as sensor voltage or watt to the next time, I'll get a meter as you have..

You said that ISC is a odd duck, but is a odd and crazy duck, I told you this detail before but I never told you again..
I'll explain you steep by steep..

1- If you start the engine in hot between 0 minutes to 20 minutes after you turn off the engine, the idle will be as we know, i,e rise very high almost 2000 r.p.m and drop to 1000 r.p.m, then with a little bit pedal it drop to 800 r.p.m..

2-But if you start the engine in hot after about 25 minutes that you turned off the engine, the idle is normal, it drop to 800 r.p.m at the moment as if the vitara were new..

3-But if you start the engine in hot after two hours you turned off the engine, the idle will be again like the point number 1-..

For that I say that duck is a little crazy too..
I hope the "doctor" give a good treatment to Lucas..

I'll tell you what happened when I know more about ISC serial..

Cheers!!

[fixkick]

1: 2000 a touch high, but the IAC is pure thermal, and opens more colder it gets, and will race, fast, cold, or colder , they all do. (new)
2: normal the water coolant is above 150F so, IAC is still closed. here.
3: normal if water dropped to below 150f threshold.
all that is normal.... (IAC actions and iSC hot)

some owners never witness this above, (old car) due to other hard failures. or failsafe mode, or lots more failures.
get Rhino tool? (save on shelf full of meters, gauges,etc)
http://www.fixkick.com/hacking/hacked/ad...acked.html

keep that duck happy!

[LuisCarlos]

[quote='fixkick' pid='5210' dateline='1449837367']
1: 2000 a touch high, but the IAC is pure thermal, and opens more colder it gets, and will race, fast, cold, or colder , they all do. (new)
2: normal the water coolant is above 150F so, IAC is still closed. here.
3: normal if water dropped to below 150f threshold.
all that is normal.... (IAC actions and iSC hot)

Hello Fix..
I opened IAC three screws when the engine was cold and it was open, after when the engine was hot I opened again and it was closed, it is new in the new TBI, and the engine has a new thermostat 88º C as you konw..

some owners never witness this above, (old car) due to other hard failures. or failsafe mode, or lots more failures.
get Rhino tool? (save on shelf full of meters, gauges,etc)
http://www.fixkick.com/hacking/hacked/ad...acked.html


First of all I installed a new PCV to get a normal idle as the Suzuki Manual say, the old PCV was cracked i cleaned it with carb clean and blowing air with a hose and blocking down side I saw air bubbles out to outside (you can see that valve cracked in the photo gallery)..
Yesterday, the mech regulates the ISC hex 4,5 mm, as the head of SANTANA told him, he turned backward a lap of thread only in that hex the idle, is a little better,and not so rude as before 2000 r.p.m to 1000 r.p.m, but the problem in hot continue the same..

But he didn't touched the bleed, that meaan they didn't do the duty cycle, you know, there is nothing serious here in Spain, sometimes worse than in India, so I'm going to buy a Meter as you have, I have that link to buy it, although is more expensive than before

New MST 2800B Intelligent Automotive Digital Multimeter ...


A friend will help me to do the duty cycle using DLC.. I read your page about, but is difficult to me because is first time that I¡m going to do it, and second because his mother language is Spanish too..
That is your page I say, I'm read it about duty cycle..

91-98-IDLE DUTY SET and links to earlier - FixKick.com

Then, I took the vitara to another workshop to see how was about CO2, and the idle was 0,5 it is correct to pass the Technical Inspection although the idle is ambalanced for the moment, but when accelerate to 2500 r.p.m the machine gave 0,7, but the correct to pass Inspection is 0,3, so I think and the mech too, the oxygen sensor is faiing, then we callad to the shop 4X4 to bring a new one, they said it will come tomorrow..
I told to the mech two months ago to get a new Oxygen sensor, but he said the OBD mark not problem, but today he told me maybe it is failing .. Crazy story..

You know, today I went to Suzuki selling cars and I saw a new Suzuki Jimmy 1,3 L, 4x4 2h 4H 4L trasmission, A/C, 85 Horsepower.. For me it's more than enough..

But I'm going to wait a little more to see what happen, because I'm a little tired about all of this, I know very well that if you, or an Argentinian Forum member than I consider friend also as you were hrere, the vitara would had been already repaired, from at least two months ago, I know that very well..

But as I say you there are nothing serious here in Spain, not to mention about polit...l issues..

At least when I left that mech I will have a new TBI half price, and a new oxygen sensor installed, itis dificult to removed the old oxygen sensor it's hideen under the exhaust manifold as you know, maybe they will raise the vitara to removed it..

And of course knowing about Electronical Injection very much, thanks to you and to that friend member from an Argentina Suzuki Forum, I'm very grateful both of you..

I'll tell you in the next chapter oanother odd story about, entitled "Nothing is serious here in Spain"..

Your friend..

Luis Carlos..

[fixkick]

welcome again, and glad to help you,
yes, the duty cycle must be set, with any changes to the air leaks, and for age the iSC will leak a bit and we correct that with the bleed, (Cw turned to attain 50%)

CO2? really they do CO2... the least harmful smog gas of them all. ? wow.!
not HC? (unburnd petrol)

not NOX (nasty of the big nasty, acid rain, and burned lungs, horrid stuff) was almost killed on boat a large ship by this gas... (blacked out)
not CO (deadly of all, carbon monoxide, like breathing BBQ fuses , death...)
that is really crazy , as and engine that burns every drop of fuel, leaving no OXYGEN left , has MAX CO2, (that is why smaller engines are the cure to high CO2 and cure to GLOBAL WORMING (sic, pun intended)

then, I took the vitara to another workshop to see how was about CO2,
and the idle was 0,5 it is correct to pass the Technical Inspection although the idle is unbalanced for the moment, but when accelerate to 2500 r.p.m the machine gave 0,7, but the correct to pass Inspection is 0,3, so I think and the mech too, the oxygen sensor is faiing, then we callad to the shop 4X4 to bring a new one, they said it will come tomorrow.."

0.7 grams per mile or KM, my guess. not percent.


see this chart, See CO2, this is a fact..... of life.... CO2 is the peak on all stock cars.
best test is 5 gas, shows them all, and we can judge what's UP.
http://www.fixkick.com/oxy-sensor/AFR-GAS.JPG

I told to the mech two months ago to get a new Oxygen sensor, but he said the OBD mark not problem, but today he told me maybe it is failing .. Crazy story..

The 02 may be bad. if old it probaby is. bad.
or have exhaust leak.

post your full smog station report, please. I can read them well.
also , you can replace the CAT, and this can hide a dirty engine (smog)
the stock cat is 3way cat. and cuts 3 forms of smog.

what folder is your new photos,, would love to see them as I have the others...?


the chart above is before the CAT, after is way less. but not CO2.
normal CO2 emission on 1.6L gas engine is tad below 200gram/mile.
note when accelerating C02 drops , then the engine wastes fuel.
then CO rises, the most deadly of all gases (related to burning petrol gas)

love to see the smog fail paper.

all things equal the best MPG gives you less CO2.
more fuel burned the more CO2
but if you burn at at STOICH, the C02 is less, like in closed loop at 45mph.... bang. less co2. and 28mpg. in this car.

now the cat,
when the cat receives excess HC, or CO, it converts that to what, CO2, so my chart is wrong at the end of the CAT, if the engine runs rich.
when HC is too high so is 02, and is used to make Co2. at he CAT.

are you sure they are testing for CO2?
to pass the CO2 test, one gets it to max, with 02 lowest.
most G16s running poorly (smog wise) are rich. and some even make extra power doing so, that fools many a person.

---

to pass test at 2500rpm (here is 25mph and 15mph)
get the ECU into closed loop. at 2500 steady throttle (means the 02 sensors is holding STOICH Air to fuel ratio )
and it will pass.. his tests.
if not, the CAT is bad. (or o2 bad , it can seem to work but is poisoned and biased. and is good cause to put in a new one well before the smog man looks.)

---

http://www.fixkick.com/smog/smog.html


this is a passing sidekick
HC is tad high but that is weak CAT but passed by a hair.
note the 14% CO2, totally normal and totally high.!!!

---

note the real low CO
and low 02.
a good burn.
wish i had pre CAT data but dont. my guess HC is high because cat is Cold or weak.
don't do the test until you get that CAT good and hot.

[LuisCarlos]

welcome again, and glad to help you,

Thanks Fix, I'was waiting to see what happen about the new Oxygene sensor..

yes, the duty cycle must be set, with any changes to the air leaks, and for age the iSC will leak a bit and we correct that with the bleed, (Cw turned to attain 50%)


Yes, I'm going to get a meter as you have, and not chinesse but from EU, but for the moment the vitara is in the mech, the new Oxygene sensor came yesterday so I took the vitara there, because CO2 problem could be from that sensor I told to the mech about two months before 'change oxygene sensor' but he said the OBD don't see error code in it, but now he sais maybe is failing..
And after that I'll do the duty cycle by myself with multimeter, of course..

First, the mech said 'no problem because 0,7 grams you could pass technical inspection'.. But I told him, that this is no the real problem, the problem is environment, but for the most people environment is nothing.. The ignorance is very high in this crazy Word..
I¡ll do duty cycle by the bleed at 50 % by DLC I have the ground cable service as the manual show and all information ready to do it..

CO2? really they do CO2... the least harmful smog gas of them all. ? wow.!
not HC? (unburnd petrol)

not NOX (nasty of the big nasty, acid rain, and burned lungs, horrid stuff) was almost killed on boat a large ship by this gas... (blacked out)
not CO (deadly of all, carbon monoxide, like breathing BBQ fuses , death...)
that is really crazy , as and engine that burns every drop of fuel, leaving no OXYGEN left , has MAX CO2, (that is why smaller engines are the cure to high CO2 and cure to GLOBAL WORMING (sic, pun intended)

I'm studing about environment since long time ago, I know all of this, in Kolkata, India for example, 10.000 people died two years ago because lung problem, they were bus and autorisckshaw drivers, I was there because I'm going to India since long time ago..
And there was an island named New More, and Indian Government and Bangla Desh Government fought for belong to one of them, but you know, the problem is over, because the Global Warming expands the waters of the Seas, so that island don't exist now..
There are so many troubles in these areas, especially in Indonesia, so many island are being invaded by the Sea.. Not to mention deseases as malaria, dengue, olive trees desapearing in Nouth Africa, or the China situation, whee almos 75 % rivers no longer have fishes, the most people have to use mask to go to the streets..
But, the industry don't stop, I use the vitara as little as possible, normally I use buses or walking to go to any place, for that it has after twenty years 140.000 km only..

guess. not percent.

Yes, is not percent, are grams by km..


The 02 may be bad. if old it probaby is. bad.
or have exhaust leak.

post your full smog station report, please. I can read them well.
also , you can replace the CAT, and this can hide a dirty engine (smog)
the stock cat is 3way cat. and cuts 3 forms of smog.

Sorry, I don't knw what is that CAT in station, this is system to load petrol in pump station ?

what folder is your new photos,, would love to see them as I have the others...?

Last time when I went to upload a photo in the gallery it said "your excded your limited quote" so I'll tried three times more to upload others, but I couldn't do nothing..
Then, I thought maybe there were too much photos in gallery, so I removed some photos not too much important, to upload more new photos but never succssefully..


the chart above is before the CAT, after is way less. but not CO2.
normal CO2 emission on 1.6L gas engine is tad below 200gram/mile.
note when accelerating C02 drops , then the engine wastes fuel.
then CO rises, the most deadly of all gases (related to burning petrol gas)


I see the chart, is not easy for me to understand it but is an explanation about to avoid smos and others gases..



are you sure they are testing for CO2?
to pass the CO2 test, one gets it to max, with 02 lowest.
most G16s running poorly (smog wise) are rich. and some even make extra power doing so, that fools many a person.

---

to pass test at 2500rpm (here is 25mph and 15mph)
get the ECU into closed loop. at 2500 steady throttle (means the 02 sensors is holding STOICH Air to fuel ratio )
and it will pass.. his tests.
if not, the CAT is bad. (or o2 bad , it can seem to work but is poisoned and biased. and is good cause to put in a new one well before the smog man looks.)

---

http://www.fixkick.com/smog/smog.html

this is a passing sidekick
HC is tad high but that is weak CAT but passed by a hair.
note the 14% CO2, totally normal and totally high.!!!

---

note the real low CO
and low 02.
a good burn.
wish i had pre CAT data but dont. my guess HC is high because cat is Cold or weak.
don't do the test until you get that CAT good and hot.

Yes, the vitara is hot when I pass that test because I have to go long to the Technical Inspection..
Here in idle the gasoline vehicle has to have 0,30, and about 2.500 r.p.m has to have 0,50 in CO2..
I don't konw exactly what they are measuring, they put a machine connected to exhaust tail pipe, I tjink is about CO2..

I think when the Oxygene sensor be installed all everything about will change, and more when I do the duty cycle by myself, of course..
I think the mech must to start to install that oxygene sensor from the beginning..

Well, friend I'll try to upload a new photo about PCV cracked that I removed fron the vitara installing after a new one..

I wisch to you and to your family a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 2016..
Feliz Navidad y próspero Año Nuevo 2016..

Your friend

Luis..

---

Sorry Fix, In the gallery is in the same situation..

I removed a photo with 365 KB because this.

Quota Limit 19.07MB
Quota Space Used 18.89MB
Quota Space Left 192.86kB

But after I deletd it the same continue..

Quota Limit 19.07MB
Quota Space Used 18.89MB
Quota Space Left 192.86kB

Always said the same never mind how many photo I could delete..
Anyway, when all be OK I'll upload all photos again to the gallery, of courss..

Luis..

[fixkick]

yah it's not CO2, (a bad running engine has low C02 , high HC, or high NOX,(egr dead), or high CO, i bet your mechanic meant to say if fail CO.
CO is not CO2. not at all.
you heard wrong or the mech, said it wrong. sorry but lacking the real failed certificate, we get errors in translations.
CAMERA's , my camera takes 75" wide photos, ELEPHANTS, the file sizes are HUGE. [5Mb] and would fill up our database SQL (free) fast.


all photos posted to the net need to be resized, called desk top size or web sized)
the cure is simple , use "PC paint" any graphic editor made, and click, (keep aspect ratio) then resize to 1020pixels, wide.
the save as jpg with 25% compression.
now photos are tiny. and all load , doing so you can have 1000 photos here.

does your smog station us a 5 gas machine (or some 1980s CO meter?)
the 5gas machine (tool) is best shows whats happening best.
are you running win10? (i think this works 1995 to now)
click start then in the run box type, paint (old pc paint still works)
paint runs
now open the photo the size of elephant. (click file , find it) then
next click , the resize icon.
click maintain xxxxxx [x]
click pixels
type 1020 in the horz. box.
click file , save-as, new name (i mark mine as 1w, for web size)
or use this program.
to do a batch at once
FS resizer
http://www.faststone.org/FSResizerDetail.htm
i keep a desktop folder called photos.
then use FSresizer to size the them all in one fell swoop.

the gallery has a built in resizer, but can not handle, elephants. as seen on most new camera's

the quota limit is 20MB.
I run ezgallery pro upgrade (paid for)
but has limits. (ill see if I can , set them to better scales)

[fixkick]

the new limits are now 30mb quota
the mix inputted file size is 4mb per photo, the system will auto shrink this to 1024 x768 Wide,tall or less.
the max inputted pixel input is 4000 wide or tall. (the server has limits PHP& SQL, that ezgallery can not violate ). (<i cant change)
4000px max is 35" x 37" (less than a yard wide. grin) stay below this limit please.
the exgallery resizer, crashes (dies) above that. (sad face.)

i also corrected a bug , (x), this x , turns on , medium file sizes, that will now make all added photo files sizes very small and not fill up the quota so fast.
more testing now.

[fixkick]

im going to rebuild your photo sets.

[fixkick]

i shrunk all your photos 5:1 at least.
what is your quota now?
you now have room.

[fixkick]

when your 1.6L engine runs perfect, in closed loop , you will see that
the CO2 is at max. at perfect burn and a CAT that is hot, working like new, makes more (adds) to total CO2 emitted. "NORMAL"!

do you understand why? the below equations show this clearly.
then the CAT makes more.(killing HC (raw fuel) and lowering CO. and NOX.

http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Che...Converters




THe EGR, is opened and NOX is reduced 1st at the source but never to zero in the combustion chamber
same with HC and CO.
The purpose of the CAT is to cleanup that which the EFI can't clean, at burn time.

in the old days they tuned the car to low CO.
nobody tunes to CO2, unless peaking it. see why.?
when burning at perfect combustion, CO2 is max. it's a goal. not a bad thing.

The only way to lower CO2 is lower DISPLACEMENT.
that lowers engine power, and lowers CO2. (the reason for 1Liter turbos)!
(assumes same engine technology , mr, Otto Cycle)

The worst of all IS CO. (people next engine)
CO, makes your red blood cells , GO OFF LINE. (hyperbaric chamber time, is only hope)


I the engine runs in closed loop at 2500 rpm (scan tool shows this)
and the 02 is new.. (we can get them for $30 here)
and the 02 is not getting hit by air leaks, at the header end there. (exh, manifold end)
then the CAT is NO GOOD.

i really look at all 31 scan tool parameters at the 2500 RPM like a hawk.

id love to see your smog chit, (receipts) number speak load, here.
this car will love to fail
for high NOX first. (EGR dead) i bet your car has no code 51 like ours do.
then High HC, (bad cat or engine so rich the cat runs red hot, and cant keep up)
last CO high, CO will be high with HC high , due to incomplete combustion.

CO2 is now not an issue ,but will be too low, on engine running bad.
if you burn all the fuel HC< CO2 goes max.

top lower CO2, you'd have to kill a cylinder dead, (spark and fuel). or lower the compression ratio.
or the easy way like on old race cars (with illegal sized engines. say a 350cubic inch in a 300 cube race. (we did this hard top racing)
the Throttle valve, restriction plate.! (we had to use one)
less air, less fuel, less CO2. (and less power)