Ecu pull

[Heady]

what is the car doing wrong?

I guess I will start at the beginning.

I bought the car from a guy that new little about it and he said it kept dying and wouldn’t start back up and he replaced the alternator. I hen I seen the battery was 5 years old I knew immediately the battery was junk and probably ruined his new alt so I put a new battery in it drove it home got the alt tested(junk), got a new alt and installed it. I also checked all the fuses they were good, replaced older looking ones for good measure cause I had some on hand and checked the bus fuses. The main bus fuse had a 60amp fuse when it called for 40 if I remember right. It was blown so I replaced it with the correct fuse, changed the positive and negative battery cables and went about my day. I also gave it a tune up. Changed: spark wires and plugs(ngk one specified under the hood), distributor cap and rotor, ig coil, thermostat(has correct paper gasket), upper and lower(2) radiator hoses, temp sensor(gave a code 13), water pump, timing belt, idler pulley, valve cover gasket, water pump gasket, and I swapped out my tps(kept giving me a code 45) with one I had on a 95 8v parts tracker. Whew that’s a lot sorry. Most of this stuff that I did actually need changed either it was past it’s prime or the ecu sent me a code. The car also had a spectre come air filter in place of the stock box. I took the one that was on my parts tracker since the box said SUZUKI anyways lol and installed it as well. I also installed a stock dome light too.

Some of the problems I’ve encountered have been:

My ISC wasn’t working correctly, I believe I’m in need of a new one in the future(beats itself to death) upon inspection of this the wires were cut from a previous owner! So I had to bypass the shared pigtail and just splice them together. It seems to work half the time... I’ve cleaned the grounds for the ecu as best as I can without replacing the stock eyelets. I’ve noticed after it warms up my dash lights all work now fancy that! Not the oil, brake, seatbelt ones, I’m talking about the speedo, tac, fuel, temp/A.C. settings, and everything that is ran off of the dash illumination nob on the far left of the dash. A previous owner also put a new horn button on because I guess the steering wheel stopped working. They also bypassed the key ignition and installed a flip switch to power the car on and off and a push button to crank the engine....and the key is only used for making sure the steering wheel doesn’t lock. Since I pulled the ecu I’m in the process of fixing all of this crazy business so it will be back to normal.

Distributor timing: like I stated in an earlier post the car seems to not want to go over 55mph without a little back fire and the tachometer goes crazy after 3000 rpm. When I checked my distributor timing the other day it was crazy! If I had the dizzy all the way retarded it wouldn’t go under 15 BTDC according to the light and it isn’t hitting the same spot as it should every time kind of bounces around...I also tried pinching the vacuum hose on the distributor to see if this would freeze the timing but it didn’t really help....I’m assuming I’ve done something wrong at some point or I’m not timing it correctly or something idk...


This leads my to my Diagnostic Jumper...I have 2. I have the usual diag fuse in the cab(the drivers left knee box bottom right corner). I also have the white 4 pin connector by the battery box! Very confusing because everything I’ve read on the 89 says it’s supposed to have the one in the cab and that’s it.

There is also another pigtail beside my DTC jumper by the battery box, I believe it is a 3 pin though. Do you have any idea what this would be used for? I know 91 and up the dizzy is different and this other pigtail would be used to freeze the timing but in my case the ecu isn’t supposed to control spark so I’m clueless..

I’m getting 15mpg so I assume I’m in Limphome mode I can get my idle down to 850 now when warm(I had a vacuum leak from the valve cover when I first bought it), and I think the other air filter would mess with it as well. I’ve had the Diag jumper in the last couple weeks when I drive it to try to get running codes and haven’t gotten any besides 12. Like I said earlier when I didn’t tighten the dizzy bolt down all the way while running my codes would be interrupted sometimes. Like it would be repeating code 12 and sometimes blink once and wait a while then continue.(blink...blink,blink......blink...........blink....blink,blink) I’m not sure if it was because stupid me forgot to tighten the bolt and it was messing with it or if that would effect it at all because when this would happen I was going 55mph in 5th gear so it’s not like I was at a low rpm.

I think that is everything

[fixkick]

what is the car doing wrong?

I guess I will start at the beginning.

I bought the car from a guy that new little about it and he said it kept dying and wouldn’t start back up and he replaced the alternator. I hen I seen the battery was 5 years old I knew immediately the battery was junk and probably ruined his new alt so I put a new battery in it drove it home got the alt tested(junk), got a new alt and installed it.
I also checked all the fuses they were good, replaced older looking ones for good measure cause I had some on hand and checked the bus fuses. The main bus fuse had a 60amp fuse when it called for 40 if I remember right.
see page 12
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/89/1990-scan-...lpages.pdf
the 60amp blows when the alternator shorts. or someone changes out the alternator and not pull the battery NEG lug first.
boom blows.
60,40,30,30 are the 4 fuses , last one 30 is only for AT/ manafold heater PTC that you do not have.


It was blown so I replaced it with the correct fuse, changed the positive and negative battery cables and went about my day. I also gave it a tune up. Changed: spark wires and plugs(ngk one specified under the hood), gaped to 0.028 " right>?

distributor cap and rotor, ig coil, thermostat(has correct paper gasket), upper and lower(2) radiator hoses, temp sensor(gave a code 13), water pump, timing belt, idler pulley, valve cover gasket, water pump gasket, and I swapped out my tps(kept giving me a code 45) with one I had on a 95 8v parts tracker.
the TPS must be calibrated to work,.. more later

Whew that’s a lot sorry.
Most of this stuff that I did actually need changed either it was past it’s prime or the ecu sent me a code.
The car also had a spectre cone air filter in place of the stock box.
I took the one that was on my parts tracker since the box said SUZUKI anyways lol and installed it as well.
I also installed a stock dome light too.

Some of the problems I’ve encountered have been:

My ISC wasn’t working correctly, I believe I’m in need of a new one in the future(beats itself to death) upon inspection of this the wires were cut from a previous owner! So I had to bypass the shared pigtail and just splice them together.
ISC love to fail this old. and even make noises, it moves 200 times a second and after 25 years dies.(gets loose, jams ,rattles and fails)

It seems to work half the time... I’ve cleaned the grounds for the ecu as best as I can without replacing the stock eyelets. I’ve noticed after it warms up my dash lights all work now fancy that!
but? not? see page 11 same PDF, use voltmeter to find the deal lamp power feed. if power is there the lamp just burned out.
Not the oil, brake, seatbelt ones, I’m talking about the speedo, tac, fuel, temp/A.C. settings, and everything that is ran off of the dash illumination knob on the far left of the dash. (dead? lamps all those?) pins 19/20 run the illum lamps in cluster.(dimmer) if 0v across those pins the dimmer is bad, or not wired.
do the park/tail lamps work, and the tail fuse not blown?




A previous owner also put a new horn button on because I guess the steering wheel stopped working. They also bypassed the key ignition and installed a flip switch to power the car on and off and a push button to crank the engine....and the key is only used for making sure the steering wheel doesn’t lock. Since I pulled the ecu I’m in the process of fixing all of this crazy business so it will be back to normal.

Distributor timing: like I stated in an earlier post the car seems to not want to go over 55mph without a little back fire and the tachometer goes crazy after 3000 rpm. (tacho crazy cam be bad distributor or coil ,set the VR gap in the distrib base? VR + Igniter inside is there. know to fail.

When I checked my distributor timing the other day it was crazy!
If I had the dizzy all the way retarded it wouldn’t go under 15 BTDC according to the light and it isn’t hitting the same spot as it should every time kind of bounces around...
the car the ECU is fuel only ECU.
the ECU never sets more changes, spark advance, ever.
so all distrib bounces is from IT ,or its bad.
the mech, and vacuum advance , is centrifugal, and vacuum (both can fail side if parts loss or wrong)
the spark should not fail, as in distrib signal dropping out, if does, the VR (reluctor coil, ignitor ,or main spark coil is bad)

I also tried pinching the vacuum hose on the distributor to see if this would freeze the timing but it didn’t really help....I’m assuming I’ve done something wrong at some point or I’m not timing it correctly or something idk...
you did nothing wrong, but if the timing light at say spark one wire or main coil wire, is seen to misfire, the distrib is bad.(or main spark coil)

http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/89-timing.html

This leads my to my Diagnostic Jumper...I have 2. I have the usual diag fuse in the cab(the drivers left knee box bottom right corner). I also have the white 4 pin connector by the battery box! Very confusing because everything I’ve read on the 89 says it’s supposed to have the one in the cab and that’s it.
not ture, there are 3 cars here, Japan made, Iwata, the suzuk cami and tracker cami cars.
the tracker is very different in many things even cab fuse box way diff rent and no diag jumper fuse in the tracker.
here is tracker
http://www.fixkick.com/power-elect/gm-fu...9-p1-1.JPG
here is sidekicks
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/89/Fuse-with-diag.jpg

both cars have the BATTERY DLC,
why ? because there are other pins on the battery side DLC. for Dutycycle is one.the solid violet wire is DC pin called check therminal. blue-yell is DIAG jump.'
the under hood connect DLC 2 two features not one.
i do not know how to use or set the Duty cycle with the Violet wire, connected to a duty meter in the shop.
my guess is you find tune the stop screw to 50% duty on the meter. hot,


There is also another pigtail beside my DTC jumper by the battery box, I believe it is a 3 pin though. Do you have any idea what this would be used for? I know 91 and up the dizzy is different and this other pigtail would be used to freeze the timing but in my case the ecu isn’t supposed to control spark so I’m clueless..

I’m getting 15mpg so I assume I’m in Limphome mode (YES)
but does the ECU flash 12s? if the , ECU is lost we say, not in limp.
eCU can go to limp mode, (CEL flashing any code but 12s, ) or CEL lamp dead, or ECU normal but is lost. (sky high fuel pressure can do that.
as can o2 sensor stuck at 0volts.


I can get my idle down to 850 now when warm(I had a vacuum leak from the valve cover when I first bought it), and I think the other air filter would mess with it as well. The air filter will not change idle speeds (unless solid packed in mudd)

a vacuum leaks means below the throttle plate valve (TV) or the plenum below. and in all cases you get too high idle and full engine power
if the ISC is dead, the idle has lost control of idle speeds, did you turn the throttle stop CCW yet?

I’ve had the Diag jumper in the last couple weeks when I drive it to try to get running codes and haven’t gotten any besides 12.
good ! nice way to do this too.
are the injector wires unmolested? red and yellow, just wires to the ECU no other things violating those 2 key wire?


Like I said earlier when I didn’t tighten the dizzy bolt down all the way while running my codes would be interrupted sometimes. Like it would be repeating code 12 and sometimes blink once and wait a while then continue.(blink...blink,blink......blink...........blink....blink,blink)
Id say the ECU has ground missing , such that when playing with distrb, it has ground too to the ecu and now you interrupt it and make the ECU reboot. or bad caps in ECU. with bad caps, weaker grounds cause the eCU to go nuts.


I’m not sure if it was because stupid me forgot to tighten the bolt and it was messing with it or if that would effect it at all because when this would happen I was going 55mph in 5th gear so it’s not like I was at a low rpm.




I think that is everything

very good report, very clear the issues.

Off top of head.
fuel pressure stuck high?, bad FPR?, does its vacuum nipple leak fuel?> bad.
02 senors 1 wire, try new o2 yet, ? one that is not stuck at 0vdc.?

map hoses ok, no clogs end to end or cracks, it must flow good vacuum down that line, end to end. (the MAP blocks the end but vacuum must be live and active at the MAP nipple.
if engine misfires only , I bet the VR in the dissy is bad. use the strobe lamp (timing lamp) it must flash in prefect beats no skips ever.
mpg will be bad with misfire. each miss is wasted fuel.
engine reaches 180f? water temp, rad hose top, hot, hand goes there and flies off, ouch, is just right.
cheers to you.

[Heady]

I can’t remember what the fuse was. If the first one is actually a 60amp the P.O. had an 80amp in its place I changed it when I changed the battery wires and haven’t had a problem since.

Yes gaped to .028 and confirmed the gap recently when I checked them after changing the timing belt, torqued to 20ft lbs per Suzuki spec so I can rule out that they are at fault.

I have attempted calibrating the tps. By attempted I mean I followed the page on your site to the T so I’m thinking it is good now.

I could really hear the ISC beating itself to death before I installed the factory air box now I’m certain it needs cleaned or it has failed entirely. $200 purchase here I come lol.

The lamps work. But it seems I have to flip a switch to the light bar, turn the headlamps on then flip the light bar switch back off and they come on.

I did not set the VR gap! I have forgotten this step. I will read and set it immediately

This is interesting about the dizzy. Is there any more tests I can do to make sure it is good??

The ecu will flash 12’s all day yes.

I have turned idle speed screw CCW to set 750-850 rpm at idle hot. Is this the same screw as throttle stop screw? Or am I lost?

I will check the injector wires asap and report back

I pulled the ECU and it is in great condition it does have big rubicon caps on the corners though so I know they need changed. I did pull the ecu ground cable off the dizzy and by the thermostat and wire brushed the connectors to make sure they have a good connection. Could this be my problem?


How do I check if the fuel pressure is stuck high and if I have bad FPR? I have not seen any leaks on any hoses whatsoever as of lately. I have installed a new 02 sensor with new wires and all.

I’m certain you’re correct about the VR gap! I will research and check ASAP and yes I do not have a temp gun but I do it the old school way. Hand to top rad hose “Ow Mother F$#%$r” and take hand off lol

Thank you for the timely replies and the wisdom.

[fixkick]

the car has extreme wiring hacks, who knows how bad , no?
Is there any more tests I can do to make sure it is good?? dissy.
the distrib. works just like all pre EFI cars did .
Vacuum advance, mech. (ever seen an old distrib test machine in a auto shop? it spins the distrib and you test the advance,pure mechanics there.
centrifugal advance mech, actions on rpm
and the VR and ignitor pair, if the timing light does now flash steady , (you said it has issues at 3000 RPM) and if not consistent flashing , the VR/ignitor pair are bad. (and as always, bad power and ground to the distributor) It must advance per the book on the car.

the RPM setting device on this car, is the TV throttle stop screw, there is no other screws to play with here. see on the Idle page i sent.
here (the actual manual pages are here for only your car) with photos and diagrams
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/89-90-idle-air.html

just 1. if you CCW that and if the rpm can not be set (all electrics off) hot engine, , is it hot? then there are vacuum leaks. or the ISC it self leaks, but that too is a vacuum leak.
all 8v engines race fast with any kind of vacuum leak that the ISC can not control.
I have turned idle speed screw CCW to set 750-850 rpm at idle hot. Is this the same screw as throttle stop screw? Or am I lost?
1989 Rubicon caps are no good. now. there life has ended, 20 years is par, but these failed way before now,, the corner big cap is the worst offender.
the fuel pressure tests is covered on the pump page, type pump in the search box? yet? fixkick.com
the pressure is checked with a tool called a fuel pressure gauge. at the filter test port, there is no engine side test port. on this car. none.
The FPR is a regulator on the side of the TB throttle body, it is for altitude, it sets fuel pressure with altitude. only,'
if the vac hose is detached, engine off, it must not leak fuel there, if yes it is bad. (the pump page.)
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/pump.html
off this page, and 89 it shows.
1989/90 = 34.1 to 39.8 PSI. Key on cranking and idling. (keyon does not build pressure 89/90 years only))
GM shows this spec. as: 34-41 PSI. (do not exceed 41 )
This ECU can not work correctly at all of pressure is too high. or too low. it must be inspec. (in specification) this means that if too high , (say) the ECU will over inject fuel.
This ECU is blind here, it can not know if pressure is wrong, (like all modern cars can) so does the wrong thing, when wrong.
at lower altitudes the PSI will be closer to 41PSI.

the ISC is Idle speed controls
hot engine only,. 180f is hot, is yours hot? using 160F thermostat wrecks all this fine tuning the ECU can do. use the correct 180,192,195F thermostat.
the ISC when hot, engine, tries its best to hold 800rpm l this is a computer ecu regulated action, the IAC is just a fast acting air valve solenoid.
The ISC opens more as you add electrical loads.
the ISC opens wider with headlamps turned on, there is DIODE block under the dash that turn up idle RPM called fast idle mode, for 45 reasons
1-Head lamps on. +) eash of the below tells the ECU to go to 1000 RPM mode.
2- dash heater blower turned on.
3 rear window Electric heater grid defrost on.
4 P/S overload (ever hear your Power steering squeal when over cranked. bingo overload. (all cars)
5 A/C on. some cars have A/C as an option. (all cars)
this is why they say all electrics off to set idle speeds.
The ISC will fail for many reasons .... like the below.
1: the ISC is bad. or even has bad gaskets or leaks inside.
2: the ISC is not calibrated correctly per the links above. i bet you cant due to the below.
3: vacuum leaks rendering it useless. the ISC closes 100% with vacuum leaks and once at 100% closed, it can not regulate RPM with it stuck closed, fix the leaks first.


the VR gap (variable reluctor coil) is just that a spec, gap. if too wide or narrow might cause it to misfire.
you can see it misfire with the timing light.
I can not hear the engine run so cant hear misfire, if you have misfiring this is s first thing first issue.
do you? if yes spark actually is bad, then the distrib and its main SPARK coil are bad.
you did a tuneup on it I see but skipped the 29 year old spark wires, why skip that, those are in the HOPELESS pile there, (we run mag wires here, the best for weak spark like that)

The ISC will not make the car run better,
all it does is keep rpm at 800 , that is it, (well mostly)
this EFI system runs mostly off the MAP, (and 02 sensors) are you running a 29 year OLD 02? (that too is hopeless if that old, totally not possible it good if that old.

1: tuneup done., partially, no spark wires replaced.,
2: idle is not regulating I bet. but this in and of itself is no crysis on any 8v sidekick or tracker , even from JAPAN not CAMI, yours is the first ones made ever. (like prototype? lol)
3: unknown fuel pressure.
4: no 02 replaces (im guessing ok? blind )
5: map hoses and ports clean to it yet, this is a key service here, never to be skipped, the MAP is the heart and soul of of this speed density fuel injection system, as is #3
6: no vacuum hose leaks, minor leaks will not cause engine to misfire, ever, infact runs faster and makes more power is what leaks do on on the unique 8valve engine EFI.

btw 800 rpm is same as 850 , its in spec. 750 to 850 is spec, ok? what matters is regulation at that rpm. it must regulate.
one way to test this is to turn on head lamps, the DIODE pack sees you do that then the ECU raises rpm to 920 to 1000 rpm, (a 200 rpm) if this works the ISC is NOT DEAD.


ever do spark tip checks.
if the engine misfires,
stop engine,
take out a plug or 2 and read the tips. the tips must look clean, if not bad.
this was done from year 1910 on all cars to now.
EFI burns all the fuel and is a no lead clean fuel so the tips of spark plugs burn clean today, (means 1989 to now in your case)
add to the photo below, green tips , antifreeze leaks, (or as the color of your coolant may be)

my wild guess is.
engine misfires, heard and felt and even seen engine to shake.
Caused by, bad spark.
or cause by gross rich fuel mixtures, as seen in carbon fouling above.

[Heady]

I haven’t been able to work on it the last couple days but I will do these tests


I did replace the spark wires, I forgot to mention that

I also replaced the 02 sensor as well, when I got the car the flange after the exhaust manifold was all messed up and the gasket was tore up. I replaced the gasket and studs and made sure it has a good deal while running so I knew I had to replace the 02 sensor since for who knows how long the massive exhaust leak was litterally right under it.

[fixkick]

ok, you really did replace everything.
lets talk misfire.
i bet this engine misfires, i can't hear it run only you can tell this.
it must not misfire.
the engine will misfire for 2 reasons, (engine compression ever checked? ) bad spark or running way to rich.
id never touch a 29 year old engine lacking step 1, compression tests.
ever do that? ever? to any card.
warm engine best or hot.
all sparks out. (plugs)
hold open throttle, to 1/2 or full, ,never do this throttle closed.
and connect the gauge,1,2,3, and 4th spark hole.
do not count seconds as some do. let the needle peak, and take a reading, then release the valve , on the tool , release pressure stored on tool.
170PSI cold, most do 180PSI warm. all 4 cylinders. at sea level, are you at sea level? if not use this charge on my compression page to adjust readings. expected.

http://www.fixkick.com/compressiontest.html

symptoms.
89 8v, engine rpm limited to 3000 and sucks fuel like mad. and flashes code 12 all the time, (12 means not in limphome mode)
a 29 year old car, no spring chicken for sure.

[fixkick]

can I presume you have tools?, timing light, compression gauge, fuel pressure gauge.? all 3 sold at Harbor Fright (pun) cheap.

[Heady]

I do have tools, quite a bit of them but not those lol. That was the plan to go up to harbor freight they just got one a few months ago in a neighboring town about 20 miles away. It’s pretty exciting.

[Heady]

I didn’t see your first reply sorry. I have not had a compression test done yet. I actually bought the compression gauge and everything right when I got the car but had a little lack of funds so returned it to buy some parts unfortunately. I’ve also never done a compression test before but I’ve studied your website quite a bit and am confident I’m able to do one. I also am lucky enough to live next door to a mechanic that’s a buddy so if I’m stumped or think something is over my skill level I pass it on to him.

I know I know, I NEED to do a compression test asap, I wanted to do the tune up first for some god awful reason and have learned that the hard way. Lol I will get it done and post my results.

[Heady]

Had a little time today to fiddle with it. I started at the distributor and noticed that there is definitely something loose underneath the rotor..like a thin flat metal piece. VR gap was good though lol!