coolant flowing between iac and isc ?

[john110]

"id never change any starter unless it fails the hot wire test."

If I can make the old one to work, I`ll keep it for all tests for sure. However , jan & feb are really cold months in my area(last winter many -30C!). I would rather taking 3 hours for the swap than be left stuck somewhere in those cold days. Doing mechanic in the cold isn`t easy !!

[john110]

Fix, yesterday I didn`t close the hood completely. so there were some snow under the Hood. I took a small brush to clean it before using air pressure. The plastic top of the VSV valve(the red one) moved away(even if I did it carefully). I could saw that the little plastic tube is broken(so can`t replace the top filter). I don`t think I could have problem running the engine without it, couldn`t I ? it would be just for few tests with engine running.

I`ve got spares from autom and manual. I`ll test those(with specs that you gave somewhere) and I`ll replace it but would like to test the starter first.

[fixkick]

ohhhhhhh -30c, burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,
the starter, if really bad, might work if cleaned. the solenoid, could use cleaning and re-lube on its back side, rust, filth and ice, all make it jam. use cold rated grease.
same with the spark, i clean them lube em then try them.... (use oil based paint solvent, sold in walmart cheap. by gallon, this is old name Stoddard solvent..)
the vsv can break many ways.
some have 3 vacuum tubes.
my photos show all this,
there a 2 red ones.
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/cover.jpg
depends on which one, and what tube broke, photos work best, so I can SEE it.
in this photo ,
left (facing engine) is EVAP VSV
then front red= dash pot. fast idle.
and rear blue.. EGR

in all cases,
if the input vacuum brakes engine sucks air, and races fast and that feature is dead. races even parked.
if the output nipple breaks, that feature breaks and if active driving, as all 3 are, engine races driving...
i think the 8v has only 2 way valves.
one hose bottom , and one top.
here they all are.
http://www.fixkick.com/engine/8v-Show-bo...ge_53.html

now the vent top with filter
this allows the output port to go open , when vsv is not energizes,
this prevents trapping air in the output line. so is 3 way in that regard.
open
closed and vented.

tell more get more. need which one?
and what damage exactly.

---

the top filter missing will not kill the valve. (now)
the filter ois so it dont suck in dirt (in vent mode). and jam it later...

---

evap open running
egr opens under running and under load for sure. and never wide open throttle.
the dashpot pulls in 3-30seconds after starting, ending cold fast idle start time. if you lose vacuum to the DASH pot , it slams the throttle open. and on mine hunts like dog, surges.

[john110]

It`s the dashpot fast idle vsv. there`s a "hat" on top of it(probably a filter in it)... the little plastic tube(on top of the valve) broke so no possibility to replace the hat/filter. However, I just took off from a spare TBI both valves with the piece of metal to attach those. I tested those with my multimeters and they are good. So I`m going to replace both valves as it seems easier than trying to remove only one of those from the metal attachment/(bracket).

Indeed, I`ve read from your internet site about the dashpot. I had no idea of its utility before... same thing with iac, isc etc.

About those, I`m still wondering. As iac and isc aren`t really related(as isc is electric). Is that mean that isc can begin to open before iac is closed. there`s a time frame where both are partially opened ?

[fixkick]

all 3 are air valves
DP is cold start extra air for 3 to 30 seconds, heard every start up
the IAC is thermal air cold start idle air, 1500 to 2000 rpm, i know for fact it opens even more, at -10C, (i ran out of cold air there?) closes at 150F. all do.
the ISC is the hot air valve, that controls idle speeds at 800 rpm, this is just an air valve that the ecu modulates to get idle speed correct. (800 or 1000)

The ECU uses the ISC for many other reasons. , fast idle mode (1000 rpm) and cut throttle it opens to prevent passenger neck snap , discomforts.
they all work together, at all times, the ECU is in charge of this at all times.
the iSC may open too, for cold starts adding more air. (the ecu knows this and add fuel based on known cranking air. and when started that too..
the 8v is nasty wet manifold system that dont run good cold, to cure that and pass smog, they run faster idles in the TBI , cold.
to get cold wet fuel to vaporize. and not puddle up.

yare not related physically but are in software.
the ECU, controls both but never the IAC,
the ecu is hard coded for IAC thermal actions (tables), if it it messes up, so does the ECU.
case in point my iAC stuck open hot. *(a bad IAC)
the engine screams hot. like 2500 RPM or more.
the ECU can not lower it, with ISC action. so screams or screams and hunts as the ECU goes, nuts.

if engine idles at 800 rpm hot.its good.
if engine rpm does not drop, with head lights and blower fan on high same time. then ISC is working
if measured duty cycle is 50% hot, accessories off, then the ISC is happy. if not calibrate it.

[john110]

all 3 are air valves
DP is cold start extra air for 3 to 30 seconds, heard every start up
the IAC is thermal air cold start idle air, 1500 to 2000 rpm, i know for fact it opens even more, at -10C, (i ran out of cold air there?) closes at 150F. all do.
the ISC is the hot air valve, that controls idle speeds at 800 rpm, this is just an air valve that the ecu modulates to get idle speed correct. (800 or 1000)

The ECU uses the ISC for many other reasons. , fast idle mode (1000 rpm) and cut throttle it opens to prevent passenger neck snap , discomforts.
they all work together, at all times, the ECU is in charge of this at all times.
the iSC may open too, for cold starts adding more air. (the ecu knows this and add fuel based on known cranking air. and when started that too..
the 8v is nasty wet manifold system that dont run good cold, to cure that and pass smog, they run faster idles in the TBI , cold.
to get cold wet fuel to vaporize. and not puddle up.

yare not related physically but are in software.
the ECU, controls both but never the IAC,
the ecu is hard coded for IAC thermal actions (tables), if it it messes up, so does the ECU.
case in point my iAC stuck open hot. *(a bad IAC)
the engine screams hot. like 2500 RPM or more.
the ECU can not lower it, with ISC action. so screams or screams and hunts as the ECU goes, nuts.

if engine idles at 800 rpm hot.its good.
if engine rpm does not drop, with head lights and blower fan on high same time. then ISC is working
if measured duty cycle is 50% hot, accessories off, then the ISC is happy. if not calibrate it.

---

Fix , I jumped the starter with a screwdriver, I still can hear ONE click. So even if the Sidekick is the snow(as it`s not cold today -5C,) I decided to jack it up and remove the starter. The top bolt is 12mm(removed) but the underneath one is a little bit bigger. I`ll find the right size (prob 13mm or 14) and then going to remove the starter on the Tracker. I was wondering if it was easy to remove the starter underneath bolt from the upside of the truck, but don`t want to lose time trying this way.

I`ll try to reinstall the starter on the Sidekick this pm or tomorrow and confirm you that the fit is perfect.

Btw the bat is at +12v.

[fixkick]

one click
so if the battery is charged and good (try a known goodbattery?) , that means
1: engine siezed. If you cant turn the crank pulley by hand it is siezed.
2: starter bad.

in that order...

when you took the starter off the main ground is on the top bolt mount of starter. was it? and was it nice and tight>? must be.

remove parts in snow, ive no idea, ive always used a garage. whole life.
or rented on, even for short time.

you dont have known good battery available? off a running car to try>?
that takes almost no tools.
jump starts need donor car, and good cables, as most cheap ones are useless.... (tiny copper gage is)
no voltmeter?

one click
battery discharged
battery weak.
battery totally bad.
battery not at 12.6v rested. (why not try a known good battery not or have yours tested in any shop or autostore in town, or charge the battery, with a charger,)
battery lugs loose or green
battery cable ground end not on top starter bolt , like new car had. or loose.
battery cable not tight, all 4 ends.
bad battery cables, see cracks in side, and green running out? bad. it is..
engine seized. (takes but a moment to hand turn any G16, it moves and the gets stiff, (compression stroke)
starter bad. (always last ) most do it first, then get angry. ($125 for no cure..... avoid this)

batteries are weak technology, some can fail in 3 short years, unlike most other parts on car, that is way we look there first.

1: jumper cable starts.
2: swap in a known good battery
3: TEST YOUR BATTERY.

We now know the key line is not dead.

---

we could save a ton of hard work and cash with a voltmeter.
sure could.
why work hard, use the meter..

here are live tests.
below 11v bad battery. (or 10v in alaska)
12.6v good battery resting, not cranking, not charging...
i crank and volts drops to 11v, sunny day, this is NORMAL. with full size battery , spec for car.
same i crank volts drop to way low say, 8v. bad battery ,shorted starter or seized engine.
I crank and volts are above 10v, or 11v, the starter is bad or cables open/or rusty.
i check voltage at the starter too, to see if my cables are bad. (huge voltage drop from battery to starter is bad cables.)

---

shorted starters are hard to diagnosis and are rare.
battery volts falls way too low cracking.
and my ammeter pegs at 500 amps, oops that is a shorted starter. 1 click. or chatters load. if voltage falls below 8v the solenoid chatters like mad.

[john110]

Back at home today, and as I found a used starter for $40, I decided that I`ll buy it and use it until spring. This will allow me to move the Tracker if I need to. It will also give me time to decide if I try to save my Tracker of if I use it as a spare parts for the Sidekick. The starter on the Tracker is new from last year.

The engine of the Sidekick isn`t the problem, it was running very well and I can crank it by hand. The battery was also tested and it`s good(new from last year). There`s rust all over the old starter so it was prob dead. however I`ll test it this week so I`ll know what was the problem with it.

Too cold today or tomorrow to install the starter (-25C with winshield) but I should be able to do it this wednesday and then bring this little 4wd in the garage for more work/test on it.

Can`t wait to see if IAC,ISC,DP, EGR system etc are doing their job correctly. going to make many test then I`ll know the list of things to do.

[fixkick]

yes, i just listed all possible failures..
the voltmeter proves the pudding.

the starter can jam too.
in many ways. so can a solenoid jam if it rusts inside.
we can also bench test a starter
with battery and 2 walfart cable.s,
i do this all the time, not wanting to put a dead used starter in a car. a pain that.
i spin it up.
under load in car is best test but if bench test fails. all is a waste.

[john110]

A good idea to test the one I`m going to buy this pm before to install it. it is garanteed 3 months but a test only take few minutes.

I was wondering if your selling some kicks parts like sensors or whaever else ? I`ve seen in an other thread that you said you`ve got pièces. Also do you have a favorite OBDII code reader that can also read real time data that you can reccomend to me ? I got a little code reader that I paid $30 but would like something way stronger on which I could read a lots of real time datas. I known that my Sidekick(and Tracker) aren`t OBDII, but it would be useful on my other vehicule, 2002 gmc sierra z71 5.3l, Toyota yaris 2010, 2007 dodge caliper. it would also be usuful if ever I buy a 96+ sidekick. If ever you`ve got some suggestions, I`ll read those with strong interest.