1994 8v timing belt tension

[Jason977]

I found one other post where someone had a similar issue, but it wasn't resolved.

I have a 1994 Tracker with a 8v 1.6. 104k miles, unknown maintenance but very very clean and stock looking.  I just replaced the timing belt, water pump, belts, hoses etc following FixKick guidance. 
I bought all parts from Rock Auto, and the timing belt kit I got was Gates TCK164.

Similar to the other post I found, the timing belt was difficult to install.  I assembled the idler and spring, but the little hook on the metal linkage that the spring hooks to is up against the water pump housing, so effectively the spring isn't doing anything.  I have the vehicle all buttoned up and I've driven it a few miles and everything seems fine but I'm worried about the long term effects of an overly tight timing belt.  Any thoughts?  Should I just spend another $30 and get another, possibly a Delco or Continental?

[fixkick]

I found one other post where someone had a similar issue, but it wasn't resolved.

I have a 1994 Tracker with a 8v 1.6. 104k miles, unknown maintenance but very very clean and stock looking.  I just replaced the timing belt, water pump, belts, hoses etc following FixKick guidance. 
I bought all parts from Rock Auto, and the timing belt kit I got was Gates TCK164.

Similar to the other post I found, the timing belt was difficult to install.  I assembled the idler and spring, but the little hook on the metal linkage that the spring hooks to is up against the water pump housing, so effectively the spring isn't doing anything.  I have the vehicle all buttoned up and I've driven it a few miles and everything seems fine but I'm worried about the long term effects of an overly tight timing belt.  Any thoughts?  Should I just spend another $30 and get another, possibly a Delco or Continental?

that spring is only for the tensining step.  (in the manual) only
after the stud is tight IT DOES nothing for 60k miles


step 35 and 36

https://fixkick.com/t-belt/tbelt8v.html

[fixkick]

the 16v is 103 teeth
the 8v is 95 teeth count (heck count them before leaving store) if brick.

so is not wrong 16v engine belt mix up. solved that.
so must  be mixed up for other engine in the box
but 95 teeth is a match did measure old to new and be sure both are 95 teeth.

the G13 belt is. 89 teeth,  (6 short) but same pitch (tooth to tooth)

but gee they have  vast suzuki  belts and even toyota's and more (mixing is a horror for sure)
what happens is folks by 5 belts and if one fits use that and the other 4 belts are mixed in to wrong box.
then get refunded.
happens all the time,  find box sealed is best.
for sure count teeth first.

steps only work  with rockers loose or the cam will fight you every step of the way, fully loose not  just a  tad


this is my 8v 91, all were 8v then and lasted to 1995 usa
the tension is set  after all is installed, and the big stud is loose so spring can be used during the 2 turn , tension'ing step.
95 teeth total, see how the tooth pitch fits perfect in the top COG wheel.  that to is  key looking point,
the old belt can be a tad longer (wear) but has 95 teeth I count every one, and never trust any store selling parts,. ever. burned a 1000 times 2000 shy
I used a real camera then 2007,  so is clear. (Nikon) the tang on back of big idler must not be mis-indexed. and is the true only tricky part IMO.

[fixkick]

I found one other post where someone had a similar issue, but it wasn't resolved.

I have a 1994 Tracker with a 8v 1.6. 104k miles, unknown maintenance but very very clean and stock looking.  I just replaced the timing belt, water pump, belts, hoses etc following FixKick guidance. 
I bought all parts from Rock Auto, and the timing belt kit I got was Gates TCK164.

Similar to the other post I found, the timing belt was difficult to install.  I assembled the idler and spring, but the little hook on the metal linkage that the spring hooks to is up against the water pump housing, so effectively the spring isn't doing anything.  I have the vehicle all buttoned up and I've driven it a few miles and everything seems fine but I'm worried about the long term effects of an overly tight timing belt.  Any thoughts?  Should I just spend another $30 and get another, possibly a Delco or Continental?

that spring is only for the tensining step.  (in the manual) only
after the stud is tight IT DOES nothing for 60k miles


step 35 and 36

https://fixkick.com/t-belt/tbelt8v.html

[fixkick]

if the tension steps are skipped the spring is useless.
do not set the belt like you would on other cars and others, accessory belts at 100psi tension, ever. those are completely different belts. and unrelated .

[Jason977]

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself very well. In steps 31-35, the belt is so short that it is difficult to install. Then with both the idler pulley and tensioning stud are loose, the belt is already "tight" without any spring tension at all. The spring exerts a force to pull the tensioning arm assembly clockwise to take the slack out of the timing belt, but with the assembly assembled loosely, the belt is already tight. Spring or no spring, the tensioning assembly is rotated as far CCW as possible, and the spring tension isn't enough to move it.

I feel like either the belt is slightly short or the idler pulley is slightly large. I've already reassembled, but now I'm thinking I better go back in and check.

[Jason977]

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself very well. In steps 31-35, the belt is so short that it is difficult to install.  Then with both the idler pulley and tensioning stud are loose, the belt is already "tight" without any spring tension at all.  The spring exerts a force to pull the tensioning arm assembly clockwise to take the slack out of the timing belt, but with the assembly assembled loosely, the belt is already tight.  Spring or no spring, the tensioning assembly is rotated as far CCW as possible, and the spring tension isn't enough to move it.

I feel like either the belt is slightly short or the idler pulley is slightly large. I've already reassembled, but now I'm thinking I better go back in and check.

I finally got around to looking at this again after driving a couple hundred miles with the Gates belt.  I bought a second belt, a Continental and put that on with exactly the same results.

To recap, it just seems like the two new belts I have are too short. Even with the tensioner at the very loosest (spring not even attached) the belt feels tighter than the old one was. 
Here's a video showing the original belt before I removed it. The vehicle has around 100k miles, I have no idea if it is the original belt or not.
https://youtube.com/shorts/NeAvl16MfhY?feature=share

And here I am with the new belt installed and both the tensioner and idler loose.  Notice that I can force the tensioning mechanism tighter (to the right) but it overcomes the spring force and returns to the left.  The only reason it's not all the way over to the left is because the hook on the spring pushes it over a bit.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Yba7SuQaSMU?feature=share

I'm worried that the belt is too tight and could cause some damage. One good thing that I didn't document is when I first looked at the Gates belt it seems like it had relaxed substantially since new.

Any thoughts on this?

[fixkick]

please now I can not see the belt being installed , and sure it is not obvious and a tad tricky and some parts you buy are just the wrong parts (try advanced out or napa)

the old belt is loose, all belts go lose worn, why say it is tighter sure it is but must do 2 things
it must fit with idler in place and its back tab indexed as my page show under idler
and spring stud loose the spring pushes the idler to the belt. under spring tension, must work, now.
there are many belts. sizes

gates I must use the catalog builder there at gates.
TCK164. is the kit , number
belt only is T164.
16v is T212

now i read the gates full spec. and the
16v is 95 teeth on belt., 19mm wide, 9.5pitch same on both, 905mm long T212
8v is 103 teeth on belk, 25mm wide, 9.5mm pitch same and 981mm long. 2.87 inches longer , t164

I call wrong belt devil be damned box number,
proof is in the spec.
https://www.gates.com/content/gates/us/e...00058.html

the cam on the 8v and 16v are off set, left to right due to 2 lifer rails on 16v, so the belt is no the same.

the tooth count nails this if patch is 9.5mm

[fixkick]

nice video. I can see video 2 best, and seems ok.
just turn crank 2 times and the tension is now set and then lock the stud (cw turned)
when done the belt is not loose nor tight it will be just right.