1991 3spd auto ""HELP!!!"

[Michtrackerproject]

ok.. so the fly wheel on this truck is pretty wasted. the holes to bolt to the converter are oblong and the metal is worn thin,, has anyone ever drilled a new set of holes in a the fly wheel to bolt up to. ? it seems that as long as its all centered to the converter it should work,. or maybe I could put some washers on the converter side,, , just not sure of tolerances,, don't want to put pressure on the pump or front shaft./

[Michtrackerproject]

new question I see on the fixkick pages that the torque specs for the converter to drive plate are 36.5 to 43 ft lbs but in the automatic trans sub section it lists 62 ft lbs.... http://www.fixkick.com/specs/torque1.html any chance of a second opinion ...other sites reference this table ,, so I cant be sure.

[fixkick]

ok, i can assume this is all 3L30 questions

but can get confusing, here are both pages.
see below for real pages.

the below photo out of last page in 3L30 manual, shows,suzuki and GM run different, torque, it's GM's transmission and flex plate, my guess is suzuki has there own bolts and flex plate? (there is no way to prove that due to GM does not use suzuki P/n,.)
so is 35/47 ft/lbs. why not just go with 47, suzuki wins.... in my book. (gm does in fact have many errors in their books, like this)

it can be very confusing , gm does two things different than SUzuki
one thing is they use only one number for torque, buy a real suzuki FSM and its a low and high. RANGE. after all, no torque wrench is precision.
my joke is GM cant handle that. 2 numbers in their head at same time, LOL
but is correct, all bolts have this RANGE, and there is dry and we bolt spec. onwet is oil threads., in this case its dry

problem 2 is GM uses their one torque's, far different than Suzuki in some cases. and no one on earth knows why. (GM retired people, do?)
keep in mind we are talking, 1989 to 1998 , 10 years, of FSM , no, 10 FSM books times 2, for both gm and suzuki, 20 FSM books to read, and correlated facts. (im not game) lol




we have the suzuki, 3l30 book. online, many places.
let me dig that up.
that 62 sounds like NM metric torque to me.
here is the last page in the trans manual, for 3L30, showing the TC offset "A" gap

the other side, of the flex, i believe is covered in the engine book


photo 2

[Michtrackerproject]

yes 3l30,, as far as I know,, trans is out of a 1991 .. recyclers LKQ yard,,
the link I included has the drive plate bolts torque at 54-57 ft lbs,, I did them at (60 ft lbs,) the coverter bolts I did at *(40-42 ft lbs.) and re drilled the drive plate holes to the converter,, old holes where a disaster converter bolts had been loose...

initial test of the replacement trans ,, stall at around 2500 3000 in reverse then the fuel line sprang a leak at the pump housing .. had to drop the tank and I am trying to get the fuel pump bracket, since the high side line has road rot,, from salt belt state...

[fixkick]

rock sells fuel pump rack (hanger) ,etc

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/suzuk...nger,18136?

if the the tank inside is rusty, there is little hope. it will pack the 10micron screens fast, in the fuel injector(s)

[Michtrackerproject]

tank is clean replaced the hanger issue ,, fixed leak and now truck will not start at all ,, ,, tried to adjust timing,, BIG mistake,, now I cant get it timed right flaming out of the TB<, backfiring,, .. spark is good gas to TB,, and I seem to be getting spray from injector. but will not fire up, cranks fast, but not starting. Checked timing TDC mark 60a. at 12 o'clock, on timing cover back plate,, crank mark at 12 o'clock .. dizzy set for #4 post ,, read the trouble shooting page,, and I cant make heads of it,, fuel leak is fixed and the truck would not start,, with leak it ran but not great. . starting to think I've got to many compound problems to sort out, no place to start.. bad pump? bad motor? ... bad TB? bad evap ? bad electrical? what makes a truck that starts and runs,, not start with better fuel pressure Bad fuel regulator, if anyone can spare the time to discuss this live please call me at (616) six 33 -three 2 zero 1 to many questions not enough time.

[fixkick]

first off you don't need fuel fuel tank, fuel pump, or even and injector to start any engine, it will run on test fuel , hand sprayed.
and no top air pipe on top of TB is needed on 8V , engine, NO MAF on this engine.
it will start and run for 3 seconds, and sound perfectly, if timed right. and can be repeated, or even sustained with (human injector, if you get my drift)

sure it's timed wrong. that back fire is the clue.

to get it correct is easy.... (keep in mind there are 10 ways to mess-up, and that timing page attempts to cure all 10. )
the 7 steps are here. STATIC TIMING. is first.
none are any good, unless the engine compression is 150PSI + wide open throttle, if it is , the cam is timed correctly and must be so.
do not look at the distributor ever, when timing the cam, or you will be doing it all wrong, after all the distrib. is probably set wrong,

ok got 150PSI, crank cog mark at12pm , cam key down, 60a mark up 12pm mark on back pan.

step 1: crank pulley can be wrong if firing at #4 , this is seen as #4 valves loss. so trun the crank again, CW, unit 0 degrees is found.
see that the #1 valves are loose. (or cant blow air in the #1 spark socket with a hose an lips....)
#2 just says, make sure #1 is right.
step 3 is drop the distributor.
if its already planted, then the rotor is at 11-oclock. if not and is between rotor top cap terminals, then it was installed wrong.
if it point directly to other terminals, then someone time it to another terminal, and will run like that for ever, but you need to know what the other guy did first.

since i dont know what you have going here at this step we can not progress.
I say timing it like the book says, that way, later on you dont get confused, as we all would doing other proceedures that ask for this 11pm rotor location.
there are in fact 4 ways to static time this distrubutor. only one is the factoryway

the 7 steps.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/8v-pro...#fastplant

mark the top edge of the distrib, cap on, or 11 pm term location, then cap off move mark to its easy to see like this.

look close see my white markes,


most folks dont know the crank TDC is really #1 and #4 firing, both. the pistons on 4 and 1 are in sync, perfectly.
so timing the distrib this is the most important step.


the first 8 steps below work to find true TDC in this case here but not 7. due to it wrong now.

http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/TDC/TDC.html

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G16a 8valve engine, (I guess)
QOD , I only have questions.... and are all 100% key (no pun) to the problem
1: engine compression over 150psi?
2; does you key look like this.

http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/16v-crankkey1.jpg

this is very important. , as it must be. or the distributor is based off all that. the distrib is at the end if the mech, line.
so...

now diagnostic, there are 10 + errors. possible.
ill list them in order of badness.

1: crank key wrecked,
2: cam not timed right. like magic, 150psi , compression test passes if valve last set to spec, is it? does it?
3: distributor not planted at 11oclock per real photo above. or was planted with cam at #4 firing, oops, TDC #1 firing is at #1 valve lash is loose !!!
4: wires not routed and places, on distrb cap in the CW clock wise Direction.
5 :wire not routed, 1,3,4,2, order. CW.
6; and last set timing running with timing freeze jumper inserted.

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sorry I have no trouble shooting pages, on this.
lots of pit falls. very very hard to make such a page.
including rotors from china that fit on 3 ways, (pure crap rotors. real rotors never do this and if you have it , all hope is lost unless timing it 3 way is fun.)
one guy had removed the distrib, bottom gear and was timed wrong.
the above 6 ways are 99% of all.

this is very normal now, don't feel bad or wonder why it is confusing , it IS.
many workers in shops now never seen a Distributor. (heard maybe)
as most cars now are DIS fired.
and timing fixed, hard.

[Michtrackerproject]

ok so I know it was timed to the wrong cylinder ,.. i looked at the position of the dizzy rotor . BUT i didn't even consider the fact this would be the only way i would get it running again,, and yes ive got a rotor that fits 3 ways in Both of the dizzies i have,, so complications galore,,, my first mistake was i did not try and mark the rotor position when i had the chance,, i just moved it after finding tdc on #1.. BUT also #1 tdc was not right.. blow test of 60a at tdc failed,, its 180 off blow test on #1 successful at 180 from tdc , 60a at 6oclock...and no mater if i adjust rotor to #4 post or #1 post ignition fails,, hopefully doing compression tests today. but again truck ran before i moved the dist... so my mistake in my haste to get the truck running for trans tests i lost ignition timing..

[fixkick]

all top brands of spark parts make rotors that fit.
Bosch fits, their , web page even states that, says, see this, " notice this locking clip fits, and fits only one way"?
just like the OEM Mitsubishi fits. having this fit wrong , allow the CMP hall sender in inside, fail.
it's not just the rotor fitting wrong , it causes the internal HAL reluctor tone wheel, to mis-align. ( you cant divide 3 into 4 and get a good fit)

bad bad to the bone are those trash, china no name rotors. (ah but only cost $2)
you have made no mistakes, the maker of this junk are guilty, a small horror , really.
first the cam must be timed correctly (DO NOT LOOK at the Dizzy doing the cam, or fail)

then with cam timed correct, turn the crank, 180 degrees CW, to TDC 0deg mark again, this is 1 firing, note the 60a mark on the cam cog is now at 6pm , 6pm is #1 firing.
now note the valve lash adjusters are loose on #1 (front is #1)
now we at #1 firing, if you blow test #1 it will, pass the blow tests. (no need really as lash is loose so how could it blow, unless valves burned up) , nah there ok...... you know they are...

now and only now, can the distributor be inserted.
mark the dissy base rim for #1 (can be marked with dizzy out of car, and best to do that be cause we are going to insert it the correct way, 11pm.) my photos above are very clear, (only a small parallax error )

next step mandates a real rotor. not those china crap rotors.... or all this is just a wasted doing this 3 times, would not be fun.
now insert the dizzy, it has 13 teeth, and the teeth are spiral cut, so as you insert the dizzy, the rotor will land in the wrong spot, (naturally)
no panic, its normal....
so remove it again and now back the rotor up, so that when you drop the dizzy in the hole, the rotor lands at 11 pm. (keep base screw slot about center.)
as you can see , this can be wrong 13 gear ways, and with the 3 rotor junkers, 3x13=38 way wrong and 1 correct. (of 39 ways)
the rotor is now at 11pm, lock the base.
put the cap back on,
now #1 is firing at 11pm, insert wire 1 to rotor 11pm post.
#1 is now working, next is 3. then 4, last 2, CW order, do not wire it like any G16B 16v)
start engine and do the running way to set timing correct with the timing freeze jumper inserted into the DLC connect next to battery.


The cam is timed here, doing this , this way below , is unambiguous, (im sure you have it this way) 60a up. TDC,



real rotors, not from maker, "SOM TING WONG" below is ADVANCED AUTO, NAPA has good parts too.

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the cam is in fact timed at #4 firing, 60a up, means just that. you cant do it any other way, the engineer, made the cam this way.....
the distributor is timed at #1 firing, ( if put a crank degree wheel in the crank pulley i can time it at ,1,2,3,4 , any. ) but the engineer used the mark for #1 and also works for #4 firing, if you move the strobe clamp to #4 HV wire.
see?
the distributor can be timed 39 ways. only 1 works.
i can also make #1 fire on the distributor be on any cap terminal , but 11pm the primary harness fits best.

one way to discover if the last guy timed the DISTRIBUTOR to the other 3 cap terminals is easy
put engine at TDC #1 firing, blow test #1 (if cam cog is not in view)
look at rotor, behold , what last guy did,,, there are 4 ways to time the #1 rotor stop point. 4 ways. all run perfect, only the harness gets upset, (fit)
11pm is factory way, see my distr, page and the suzuki drawing, its clear. This way matches the harness, design...

the real deal this drawing.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/slides...age_7.html



here are more photos. i have this on my main timing pages
it shows how to correct the CHINA, malarkey (S,S,L) , i made this photo for the folks hell bent on using WRONG ROTORS, this drawing is useless to all BOSCH fitted cars. totally.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/dizzy-end1.jpg


more?
here is my painting 11pm marks using the cap terminals for exact locations.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/slides...ge_22.html


the crank fires every 180degrees.
the cam every 90degree
one can use this degree wheel and check timing, markes or time any cylinder or cam, as you wish
http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/284...reeing.jpg

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I also use a degree wheel to see if the crank pulley marks are not wrong. the damper pulley guts can strip out. (rubber goes loose inside)
I use a TDC finder tool to discover this little horror.
when i build and engine , I assume all factory marks are wrong, and prove other wise. for sure that funky pulley.

[fixkick]

more, watch out , SUzuki uses engine VIN code 0 for both engines, so buying parts for engines, are a coin toss, A royal PITA./
BOSCH 04273
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/suzuk...rotor,7136


all comments USA engines. 8v.
1991 usa was only 8v, and is my trick in getting good listings on 8v motor, and excluding 92+ 16v.


the BOSCH works.
and is not hard to find.

https://www.google.com/webhp?gws_rd=ssl#q=BOSCH+++04273