1991 3spd auto ""HELP!!!"

[Michtrackerproject]

issue here is if i set the cam gear as per your pic #1 blow test rocker test fails..i don't have the cover off yet.. so only blow test. but same same,, fails at 60a at 12oclock.. works with 60a . at 6oclock, ...tdc physically checked, with crank at 12oclock and #1 at tdc.. i reset the cam to be #1 passes blow test at 6oclock, tdc crank at 12oclock,,,,stil fails to fire dizzy pointed at #1. but ya i can see 38 bad ways one good makes this a pain..
ok edit here do i want the cam to be at 12 and fail the blow test .. and fire ar 6 oclock...?> while cam is at tdc or 180 of tdc.. engine is all kind of backwards, as i am reading description you say it should pass blow test at 6 oclock but not 12 oclock.....so 6oclock on cam should align with crank at 12.. for #1 firing,...

[Michtrackerproject]

compression is good 150 all 4,,, but now ive got a weird spark issue,, sparks once at start of cranking then once again at end of cranking,,.. possibly a faint spark in duration of crank but to orange to be seen.. initial is blueish as is end spark,, but nothing during cranking,,, so spark then dead then spark at end of cranking. going to test at coil but im not sure do i just connect a plug and wire directly to the coil?

[fixkick]

missed your posts sorry (lots of spam this week)
91 car, 91 ecu, right, i cant see car and know the levels of swaps on old cars.
G16a, engine, 8valve. all stock engine and ecu and harnesses, right? 1991 all.

the crank TDC is for #1 and 4. so if first TDC blows free, then that is not #1 its #4; turn crank 180degrees CW, one full turn, now the spark hole front, can not be mouth blown. facts.
if it can still blow easy, then the lash is wrong on #1 and will burn the valves fast.
60a 12pm is #4 firing (facts all facts of this cam, un bending facts)
60a at 6pm is #1 firing, all totally normal on 4 cylinder 1,3,4,2 engines.. (unlike boxer engines)
now we know the cam is timed correctly ,after all it must or the spark timing and running will be impossible.

the plug to coil is super easy, just a spark wire off car, say #4 removed, and spark plug there to coil directly. (id bet spark is 100% perfect now!!!)
super super easy, ground the spark shell just like all spark tests are done using a real spark plug (best is a fresh one, not 60k miles old)
if this test passes, i bet the ROTOR IS CRAP.

what do we know, cam is timed correctly!
compression above 150, good. proves above is good too.!
next we only need to get spark working correctly, you must again. get TDC #1 at the crank and the cam. firing #1 NOT 4
how to do that, is on find TDC page. blow tests (cheeks puff out is #1 firing) or use the compression gauge at #1, watch compression build as crank moves to TDC from BDC. this is true TDC #1 firing when compression maxs out, on all engines.

super easy to do that, with valve cover in place. no need to remove cam cover either.
what is next, ?
next, is get that dizzy planted correctly. so that the new rotor from Bosch points to #11oclock. (china rotors suck, id never own one, ever, no body needs this pain....)

now take off rotor and dust cover seen in photo above, see that. (after all ive no idea what parts you have , that are not stock)

then with distributor planted correctly show me a photo of your 4 star tone wheel.? as seen below, the dust cover is not optional (rule 10?)
this will tell me , yes Bosch fits(it will) or the china crap rotor IS wrong, 3 don't fit in to 4 at all, 3ways and 4 stars, dig? <hotel hell i call this)
if the rotor is right the star aligns correctly, every time.
if not?, not.
i revised this just for you, its no where else this photo , see the star trip point? and the horror if not?

see this tone wheel, star wheel? this makes the spark, and must not be wrong, if the rotor is china crap, it can be worng 2 ways. and correct 1 way only.
the bosch only fits one way, and means i dont have to tell you all these details of the STAR, see? (but is ok, )
ive seen crap rotors with no steel spring clip on bottom of ROTOR this is JUNK.

why not buy a real rotor. and not fool about using junk parts.?
the rotor dizzy shaft has a long flat. only this flat tells you where the tip goes if hell bent on using crap rotors.

if this is correct, and the star is correct, and crank marke is at TDC #1 and valves closed on #1 and the rotor at 11oclock and the wires laid down like below, then it runs. (and star pointing correctly too.) The star deal is not covered in any books, because they assume, that you buy OE certified parts.

this photo is clear, no way to confuse this....
the wires are layed down like this, only this way

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since the rotor turns CW, (clock wise) that star tip, you can see, that the leading edge of that STAR, files the coil.
well not really, it tells the ecu to charge the coil(there), and the ECU releases the coil in 2mS (Dwell), and it fires then, to be exact.

using the wrong rotor, is pure hell.
if you move my arrow i made (my pretend rotor) and move it to the wrong flats, you see why the spark will be hopeless.
that is because the rotor will at 1# firing but firing does not happen at all, until later, dead wrong. this is why BOSCH says OUR PARTS FIT,
cuz they do
and so does, BECK and Delco fit.
but not MR, SOM TING WONG.

now we have a fix , not covered in any book on earth, how to fit up wrong rotors.

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and will fire ok , with rotor aligned with any leading edge of any star, after all the star no ecu can know which star is used.
only the trigger point matters, and that the wire routing is correct from cap.
that is why the distributor can be timed 4 ways to 4 cap terms. it's cant tell you did that.

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the 2 other flats wrong. causes.
wrong 1, fires way too late
wrong 2, fires way too soon,

this causes the spark to jump inside the cap a huge distance (1/2 inch?), causing the most odd spark effects imaginable. weak and intermittent.
seen like 100s of posts on just this topic in 10 years.
its not new.
its only new to folks buying parts on fleabay (junk)

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and double wrong
if the rotor is wrong
then the distrubutor is now planted wrong, it not really 11oclock and is dead wrong. 2 ways from sunday.
yes, double hotel hell ,

and also means if the rotor is corrected after the pLANT,
then its still 1 way dead wrong

the fun never ends on wrong. with distributors, we have more, someone removed the gear... .omg,....

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the dust cap must not be missing
why
because it keeps spark from ever reaching the CKP and blowing up the CKP and ECU in 1 nanoseconds.
it's not a dust cover only....
i blind here, so can see whats really there.

[Michtrackerproject]

all this info follows what I m seeing ,, odd spark,, not firing in time and backfires .. so I got a oem fitment rotor,, seems ok,, cap is fair, wires are correct order, I will check the star alignment against the rotor since I now have correct part not the other.... but to clarify.. cam gear at 6oclock and crank at 12oclock is #1 firing tdc,, it was 12 and 12,, until I moved it so im thinking truck was set to fire on #2...and why im having this puzzle. would also explain some of the not running quite right issues. before I changed the dizzy.. wishing now I had left it be.
much thanks for the extra info, other sites reference this one,, so all the same info was not getting me anywhere.

[fixkick]

"but to clarify.. cam gear (60a) at 6oclock (down is ok ) and crank at 12oclock (wrong)is #1 firing tdc,, it was 12 and 12," (12 and 12 is #4 firing)
12 and 12 is for belt installation only.

12 and 12, is #4 firing and wrong , the crank fires every 180degrees. cam every 90, the ratio is 2:1, crank to cam, exact ratio,
firing on #2, is (1,3,4,2 is the order) , #2 fires next after #4, so that works out to,
#2 is cam mark 60a to at 3pm. (90degrees from #4 see?) and crank mark at 6pm. (180deg from 5)
did you ever check to see if the coil >>> wire >> spark-plug , connected directly works, i will but when you see this work then you know the distributor is timed wrong.
the error you are making is not putting the engine at #1 firing, and then installing the distrib.
i can write instructions to time it on #4, its easy, but no point to it...


when timing the cam with a new belt its done at #4 firing.
1,3,4,2 then to get ready for the dizzy, you spin the crank 360degrees 1 full turn.Clockwise going 1 full turn skips #2 firing. see? landing on #1 firing.

btw ,you do know the spark test light strobe works fully well on a non running engine (pull fuel pump relay to cut fuel), if not, the distrib is timed way off.

here is my crude photo of the cam cog, (i must only assume the cam cog wheel was never removed from the cam, or the key can be wrong)
it can be confusing, firing order is 1,3,4,2 but after inserting the belt, order is 4,2,1,3 (due to now you begin at 4 not 1) see?

as you can see 60a (x) is at 6pm, and the crank is at TDC mark at 0deg 12pm) and 0 + 180 means crank is at 6pm marks down for 2 and 3 to fire.



study this cam wheel carefully, your post showed me that the cam was at #4 firing, this wrong for inserting the distrib.

if you had done that wrong at #4, then move all wires on the distib. and it will run. if you install wire#4 first. CW 4,2,1,3 order
this is why the blow test works, or compression gauge works so well ,it tells you, you have the wrong TDC,

or remove valve cover, to to find true #1 TDC, true TDC is #1 last loose. (if lash never gets loose, the engine valves will burn up)
or remove cam cover, #1 cam 60a is 6pm. down. totally. and crank at 12.

it is possible to time a distrib from #4 it's not hard, but means you blow test #4 or look at the cam wheel . but rotor should be at 5pm not 11pm.
see? doing it wrong, (and still right ) makes all other documents wrong, and painful.
11pm is #1 firing, this is the factory way, and all pages related to #1 firing use this page as starting point.
we can time it from#1 or #4
and be aware there are no crank marks for #2 and 3, so we'd never attempt that with out an attached crank shaft pulled DEGREE wheel attached.

why not just do it the book way?
crank mark up 12pm (means TDC #1 or 4 firing)
cam 60a mark down , lash on #1 is loose, cam lobe on #1 are on there heels.
then install distrib, with a real rotor, such that the rotor lands on 11pm mark you made on distrib body (body mark is the 11pm cap terminal for #1)
if real paranoid, (i trust zero so am) i then do all that with the dist cap off, and see if the STAR is wrong.

my comments are for real USA and Canada, 8v , G16a engine, not Europe as they of different distribs there.
or distrib p/n is. -56bxx distr, min is 56b10 this is the usa distrib. marked on the side,
also if some one removed the gear and put it on backwards all rotor location are now 180deg, off. (messing up rotor to star relation ships)



on modern cars none of this matter,s with a matched marks on flywheel and machined in place CKP sensor all this works like magic."precision"
on dizzy engines, all timing must correct or sparking will be dead wrong. (it is not flexible, it must correct)
my guess, right now, move all spark wires 180deg CW and it run. due to timing it on #4 and not 1

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and that the that the crank key is good
and cam cog key is in the correct 60a slot, not the wrong key slot.
the correct cam key is
60a up, 12pm and key down for G16a
if keyed wrong,the cam is not keyed for the 3cylinder swift engine, DOOMed.

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there are huge ways to get it wrong.
key wrong (swift engine timed) or missing keys,
cam belt timed wrong
distributor, gear removed, and now on wrong.
china rotors from hell. (2 ways wrong, 1 correct)
timing distr at #4 not at proper # 1. (at 11pm rotor location is factory way, for #1 firing, ) not locking at cam cog or lash (or lobes#1), to prove #1 is firing....
laying wires down wrong. wrong direction and wrong order.
yes, lots of pitfalls.

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this photos above is on my lash page.
helps set lash using the suzuki cheaters way of setting lash with only 2 turns of crank. not 4.)

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the above photo works for 16v, change 60a to "E"

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cam key up is #1 firing.
yet another fact.
in fact, cam key up and crank key up is #1 firing. if not , it's all wrong and doomed.
all depends on what you can see (or saw), or not. at time the job is done.

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all this is clear
this is #4 firing, it's totally clear. see that key,?

http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/8v-cam-cog-close.jpg

nothing else matters cam wise. but proper lash.

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if cam is timed wrong, compression falls to very low values. (common ways to do that, not all) 80psi is wrong.

[Michtrackerproject]

..ok after finding the REAL problem today.. truck runs again even better then I had hoped...issue was ground wire at distributor (three wire plug) was broken, but not noticeable, and 12v was cracked badly, had only one strand passing current,, so rewired plug new wires and reconnected to main harness and bam,, fired right up even with out #1 plug installed,, in fact I was just trying a test crank and it fired up in half a rotation. SO lesson today kiddos ,, look for the simple answer .. not sure how I missed that ,, aside from each time I unplugged the dizzy I let the plug fall back behind the rest of the harness, not surprised the condition of the wires considering the rest of the chop job on the harness. Ill try and get some pic so you can see what a mess I inherited, SO yea truck is running drove it a little down the block today, trans stall test 2500 -3000 in drive passed stall in revers 2500- 3000 in passed, felt like it shifted into 2nd.. but I still need to adjust the linkages,, and fine tune the shifter, but its running.. I did find also the crank is a mess keyway is smashed pretty badly,, and I had to replace the crank gear. .. as it was smashed as well ,,, key was rolled on its side for a long long time,, and had left an indentation on the crank keyway as well as the crank gear... I may locktite the crank gear,, to help hold it all in place,, BUT first I need to find out what the crank bolt should be torqued to .. I am seeing in the specs (94ft lbs.) .. retroactive but 57 to 65ft lbs for 89 -95 years....so need some clarification before I plant the crank gear indefinitely .
Much thanks for all the pics and help with clarifications.. have a happy wife right now being as im am one step closer to getting her little blue tracker on the road.

[fixkick]

good news.!! (i suspected multiple probs, most old cars have it)
there is flash code for that wire breaking. code 42 cranking,,,, the CMP dead, that is always the code, (or even goes 42 , 1 pulse in 10 missing)
and the direct from coil tower to spark plug test would have failed. too...


the crank bolt , was revised in 1996 (retroactive to all years G16) all years that is what retro means, all the way back to first year.
94 ft/lbs, that key was destroyed because nobody reads the TSB sheets. nor uses fly lock to get it right. for sure on a/t transmission cars, as you cant lock with shifting like we can on 5sp, in 5th gear.

the key is only used for timing it, (crank) after 94ft/blts only that torque, hold the cog from walking , the key is not strong, to do that.
btw all books in print get this wrong, GM , chiltons, haynes rags, but not 96+ suzuki books. (suzuki reads their own TSB what a shock (not)

there is lots of forces at bay on the crank cog, imagine at 5000RPM that...

my cheat sheet on topic
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/damage/index.html

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good to hear it sputters to life and the 3sp, starts working, (what a lucky break that) !!!

[Michtrackerproject]

yes that link on the repair is basically what I have on the crank,, replaced crank gear , epoxy puttied next to key,, .. but I think I am going to remove it and do the Miata 242 locktite fix as well.. .. But to be clear ,, ( 94ft lbs here is the spec,...) .. nothing lower...

[fixkick]

94 , is the #
the hard part is finding the lost TDC , slot damage.
then getting it to hold TDC for the torque application.
the rear if the cog needs to be still flat
and the crank boss it hits,same, or i can slip.

[Michtrackerproject]

Ok hello after some time away.. back to transmission questions finally got to drive the 91 tracker on a proper road,, But I have no idea what normal is for these 3spd transmission it seems to not being shifting into 3rd<> and the rpms at 55 are about 4k, what should I be looking for here as for shift points / rpm and final run out at speed .. ie can or if I will be able to drive freeway speeds at what rpms,>?