timing freeze

[barnbiketom]

91 1.6
When I jump the connector the timing isn't "jumping all over" but if I rev it up it still advances..is that wrong.
Seems like no difference jumped or not. Mark stays same when jumped
No codes..unless one there in the hour before I tried to time it. CEL proves out. Then always off when running...
It starts and runs nice but just need to confirm base timing and my lower balancer is off ( slipped) by 4 degrees..so need to get timing sorted out.

[fixkick]

good question, and the trick is , in the spec. see it says hot normal idle which is 800, and if idle is bad, the freeze fails. as does hot, and all these.
the FSM does not cover these.... (partial)
see freeze fail here
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/IGN-FREEZE.HTML
see all 10 ways.

im sure there are others,.... I think they do this to cut smog if you leave the jumper there... and cat burn out. in 1996 it throws a code, jumper left in error.


i see you are checking it close.
no freeze jumped, the timing can bounce like crazy hot 800..
this is normal, if it dont, id expect the TPS switch is not closed, does the FAN and Head lights turn on
together (nofreeze) keep the idle steady, at 800 rpm. and not slow down, (dead ISC)?

the Cel will glow if the idle switch fails , (it watches RPM and map to see if switch (idle) is incongruent or contradictory.)
eg max air flow an switch closed? or rpm 800 all the time but switch not closed. and 19inchs vacuum (idle)

it might be the ecu and closed loop is so good, it dont need to play with idle timing. possible?
I always thought the timing bounces as a result of the 02 swings. the hunting of it. lean, rich,lean rich and as it did that, the ECU made minor timing tweaks to make it even more better.
all theory that...
trouble is , the 91s we can not see closed loop directly. (no scan tool) if i saw it out of closed loop CL, id be fixing that first. at idle and light cruise.

[barnbiketom]

OK no codes.. cept 12...12..12...
With no freeze.the timing IS MOVING around slightly..maybe 2-3 degrees...
With freeze jumped it IS STILL. Except it does advance when I rev it.. I am thinking it is OK...
Also set the tps earlier to correct spec and switch is under 300 ohm at idle
BUT tonite i notices the idle air bypass screw under the rubber plug on TB IS ALL THE WAY IN.. IF I UNSCREW IT..IDLE GOES UP. I SCREWED IT BAC IN
Sound good????
Maybe I just drive it

[fixkick]

i suspect one other input to ecu is wrong, but id drive too. (id not let idle issues.,stop me,)

all way in, on the TB air bleed, means there is an air leak,
might be real (eg. cracked hose) or ISC does not close all the way , under command.
finding small air leaks is very hard.
any air leak will cause RPM to rise if the ISC closes down 100%
what happens is , add one small leak , and RPM rises, the ECU sees RPM rise above 800 and then the ECU closes the ISC to attain corrected 800 RPM idle (regulation)
if say the EGR leaks and RPm drops ECU , opens the iSC to correct this drop.
maybe your ISC leaks, like most old ISC do... most guys, just screw that screw in and get near 800 and say heck with it.
good luck to you.
your freeze is not working, it must hold steady, but may be the steering switch is stuck, in overload.? or IF A/C is on , (even with compressor missing, the dash lamp needs to be off or Idle is
1000 rpm. and youd have to screw the TB bleed all the way in. to get 800 )
is this an A/T car?
a A/C options?
and last is ECU P/N matching, A/T or M/T actual
i ask that, because many old kicks are running the wrong ECU.
56B30 - m/t
56B40 - A/t
the A/T has a PARK line that causes fast idle , not in park/neutral ( so engine dont stall as you select say, Drive (huge load)

[barnbiketom]

Mt with ac....ac off ..defrost off.. no dash lite when off, no compressor either.. I'm going to find the PS switch.. maybe stuck on like you say.. there's not a surge now when I hit the steering against the lock. I know how it should flare up. I'll look. later

---

Also I better check ecu very good point...been wanting to see if I should find caps and re do it

[fixkick]

yes, the stearing stops, close the switch and idle goes to 1000 , flare, and is only for preventing stalls, in extreme conditions, like stuck in a snow bank, mud,etc.
im sure you know that.
if all that is ok, and seems so then its a small air leak. or ISC fails to close 100% most dont, after all this time,
the ISC piston is a can and seats in a rubber base ring, most rings are chopped up and ugly.


my naked ISC see seat on right , rubber ring hard to see.
i had to add more spring bias on mine to get it to close better, (factory adjustment, but can be tweaked)

[barnbiketom]

AWESOME STUFF! well i had no time to play.. actually i ran OUT OF GAS 3 times ( DAMN GAS GAGE runs out at 1/4 tank thats another story for ANOTHER DAY HUH. i keep running out of gas daymit.
HERE'S ANOTHER CLUE to this pzzle.. in the morning, the PS WHINES like it's out of fluid.???? NO PS till the engine runs for 15 seconds?????? looks like PS FLUID?? belt tight..
KEEP TUNED same time same channel....

all in all i love these things hahahahaha

[fixkick]

air in P/S pump, fil it and cycle steering like mad to clear.
sorry about your gage/sender for fuel , RIP

my fuel guage page shows what end is bad.

http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/fuel-gauge-tests.html