no injection ...ECU? 92 tracker 8v TBI

[armchairlonghair]

Hi great stuff here, so much detail. you are obviously mad scientist smart. I've read many of your pages many times.

1992 Tracker 1.6 8v TBI 4x4 just died while driving. no start.

short story it runs on test fuel, TPS 1.1 v, B1 yellow connector ecu 11.65 v key on or 7.5 v cranking, battery reads 12.75v
is it ecu? I have tried 3

Long story.... many tests
fuses dmm tested.
compression ok(50psi) for cold engine sat for weeks in -10 c.
Timing is good checked cam to dist. to crank on #4.watched timing belt its ok.
all 4 spark plugs gapped. spark test ok.
No fuel spray in Throttle.
injector wires disconnect at ecu 1.8 ohms. injector disconnect at TPS connector 1.6- 1.8 ohms.(to high?)
Noid test fail no light.
TPS a-d 5110 ohms b-d 1200 ohms, @ no throttle 1.1v full 4v +.
Tach does not seem to move. tach wire at ecu B1 brown wire 11.65v key on 7.5 v cranking.
remote start installed by me 4 yrs ago all plugs disconnected no joy
runs on test fuel.
ecu flashes code 12.

ECU story complicated.
Mine dies flashes code 12. I replace 2 caps No joy flashes code 12. I find another ecu for sale though he is not sure it works. It has had all 3 caps and 3 transistors changed.mica backed transistors by the way. Tried it, no joy flashed 12. It did register a 42 code when the battery got to low. The code went back to 12 after charging battery.change last cap in original ecu no joy. Found virgin ECU at wreckers Looks fine on inside no joy flashes 12 and also registered and cleared 42 same as other ecu. all caps and transistors on all 3 show no burn marks or suspect markings.

So the main questions I have are: 3 ecu are all bad? the tach needs more attention on your pages. I see some one else has recently asked and you have not answered their question. How do you test the tach? is it the tach guage in the car must run or only that the ECU get a signal (B1?)? The readings seem wrong to me. should a tach signal not be a pulse? Why with key on is it 12 v if not turning? Is the 7.5 v cranking really the pulse and my DMM slow? pages say it should be 12 v is this the problem?what sensor (and where is it) that will throw a code to a 8v TBI ecu? and of course what else could be wrong? thanks for your time and all the effort into the pages.

[fixkick]

you ask such great questions, the car will run soon, i promise.

Hi great stuff here, so much detail. you are obviously mad scientist smart. I've read many of your pages many times.
Im glad to help, im not so smart if my jeep SKIM dies , im sunk.

welcome ./
1992 Tracker 1.6 8v TBI 4x4 just died while driving. no start.

short story it runs on test fuel, Good you have spark.

TPS 1.1 v, B1 yellow connector ecu 11.65 v key on or 7.5 v cranking, battery reads 12.75v
is it ecu? I have tried 3
there are 4 pins.



Long story.... many tests
fuses dmm tested.
compression ok(50psi) for cold engine sat for weeks in -10 c. im sure you meant 150. and is good.
Timing is good checked cam to dist. to crank on #4.watched timing belt its ok.
all 4 spark plugs gapped. spark test ok.
No fuel spray in Throttle. (we will fix this)
injector wires disconnect at ecu 1.8 ohms. injector disconnect at TPS connector 1.6- 1.8 ohms.(to high?) yes. that is injector coil ohms
Noid test fail no light. (im sure its TPS bad or open ground)
TPS a-d 5110 ohms b-d 1200 ohms, @ no throttle 1.1v full 4v +.

Tach does not seem to move. tach wire at ecu B1 brown wire 11.65v key on 7.5 v cranking. good.
remote start installed by me 4 yrs ago all plugs disconnected no joy. (this may be it, need to do 1 test or 2)
runs on test fuel.
ecu flashes code 12.

ECU story complicated.
Mine dies flashes code 12. I replace 2 caps No joy flashes code 12. BAD ECU, you broke the trace or feed thru under corner cap, im sure.... sorry.!!!
I find another ecu for sale though he is not sure it works. It has had all 3 caps and 3 transistors changed.mica backed transistors by the way. Tried it, no joy flashed 12. It did register a 42 code when the battery got to low. 42 means the love battery cause the CMP to go dead)
The code went back to 12 after charging battery.change last cap in original ecu no joy.
This one my be good. we will see later.
Found virgin ECU at wreckers Looks fine on inside no joy flashes 12 (its bad,)
and also registered and cleared 42 same as other ecu. all caps and transistors on all 3 show no burn marks or suspect markings.
no code 12 means the ECU is dead. (this code 12 means , simple self test are ok) if no 12 ,it means the simple self test all failed.
it must flash some code or its a dead ECU.
this is like on new cars the scan tools is dead. no comms. and fuses good.

So the main questions I have are: 3 ecu are all bad?
the tach needs more attention on your pages. I see some one else has recently asked and you have not answered their question.
How do you test the tach? is it the tach guage in the car must run or only that the ECU get a signal (B1?)?
the tach just shows the coil pulses. the ecu watches the tacho brown wire if it dies it kills the injector, and sets a code 41.

The readings seem wrong to me. should a tach signal not be a pulse? yes it does. in fact 40v pulses. (scope)
Why with key on is it 12 v if not turning? (easy the coil is hot, and the ignitor is off, this causes the line to pull up to 12v. via the primary coil resistance.

Is the 7.5 v cranking really the pulse and my DMM slow? pages say it should be 12 v is this the problem? (the dmm averages the 0v and 12v and gets 7v cranking, this is what a dMM does, the scope shows the real signal. see bottom of post.
what sensor (and where is it) that will throw a code to a 8v TBI ecu?
41 spark, dead, 42, CMP dead. or misfiring.

and of course what else could be wrong? thanks for your time and all the effort into the pages.

ECU , no code 12 or some other code means the ECU is brick dead. (or in backup mode , but is same deal, dead)
no lie , lots of dead ECU about.... and worse every year.


lets look hard at the TPS. the TPS can set DTCs but not all fail modes.
that is its greatest weakness.

what are you 4 pins doing.
key on.
connected, back probing only, and volts.
PIN A must be 5vdc at all times, or the ECU is bad or the line is shorted to ground.
Pin B will be at 1v, idling and more key on not running due to Dash pot vacuum device holding throttle open at tad.
if pin be goes much over 3.0 volts the ECU thinks you are asking for WOT unflood mode and kills all injections. this you?
Bin C, idle mode. (0v idling, but key on, engine off, will be 12, due to above dash pot actions. this pin does not stop injections, ever.
Pin D , is ground 0v. if not you will not get injections and throw DTC codes.

my guess, is PIN B will read wrong. and the ECU only warns on this pin if near 5vdc, (tps too high errors) there is no unflood warning DTC, (weakness)





tacho sigs (key on is 12v, if it was 0v the coil would burn to a crisp with infinite dwell. (im sure this is good on your car as spark is good)

---

the keyffail path there, is Dead NOID lamp.
the ECU is NOT injecting, we need to find out way
and there are only these causes.
1-TPS stuck high.
2-No cmp signal (no its ok you have spark on no 42s)
3: no spark (nah your is ok)
4-ECU power pin dead or ECU not grounded, there are 3 EFI fuses, ig-coil, FI, and dome. all must be good. and ECU grounded and 12s spit out.
4-bad ECU. (some of yours are in fact dead)

---

I see some one else has recently asked and you have not answered their question.

what question, i might have missed it... ill check. thanks.
just the tachometer>?

thanks or asking.. sure....

the tachometer has 3 pins.
one is ground .
one is 12v battery (those 2 pins are just power to operate the tacho electronics board in the tachometer.)

if those are good and the 3rd pin does not look like above scope signals.
if signal is good, tacho is bad. (very common) Some even get the bad caps disease,too.
if signal is dead or weak the ignitor or coil are bad, (or fuse power to coil blown) no spark. supressor missing, code 41s.

[armchairlonghair]

Hi thanks for the reply,
Quote;compression ok(50psi) for cold engine sat for weeks in -10 c. im sure you meant 150. and is good.

No actually 50 is correct this car had sat for weeks after it died. that means no oil left on cyl. walls and the engine temp. was -10 deg Celsius during test. timing check, noid test and it runs on test fuel.no issue here

Quote;remote start installed by me 4 yrs ago all plugs disconnected no joy. (this may be it, need to do 1 test or 2)

what are tests? do you have issue with all remote starts? or just recently installed? this one had been working for 4 +yrs no issue. wires were not cut to install it.

All 3 ecu have exact same symptoms; no injection, flash code 12.
2 of the 3 ecu recorded a code 42 and erased it on correction.

ECT your link in pages takes you to a picture of valve covers, scrolling below on that page you find sensors, no 8v ECT. I found it here; Full 8v motor PDF parts finder.

with my ECT,IAT,& MAP disconnected no codes are registered with 10 sec of cranking

Quote; lets look hard at the TPS

pin A 5v
pin B 1.1v, with pot vacuumed = .98v
pin C 5v, with pot vacuumed = 0v
pin D ground good @.5 ohm

Quote;ECU power pin dead or ECU not grounded, there are 3 EFI fuses, ig-coil, FI, and dome. all must be good. and ECU grounded and 12s spit out.

all 3 fuses checked again with DMM no issue

all 3 ecu give 12 code so power has to be there

ECU grounds etc...
green connector
B2,B10,=0 ohms to batt. neg.
B1 =12 v
yellow connector
A4,A24 =0 ohms to batt. neg.
A11 (crank sensor) =9.82v cranking

I never found that Tach diagram before. so much info so many links. index?

the question is in jjgolf's post No injector pulse.... Is dead tachometer causing this?
you mention brown wire with no detail, then he asks again about tach and this wire. In your defense it turns out his ecu will not throw codes so the focus of the thread changes.

Thanks again for all you have done and do.

[fixkick]

hello and welcome back, nice report. all very key facts !!!!
50 is bad, on all 4 cylinder? ?????????????? no other things need checking
no injection problem i real but 50 is catastrophic bad,
my guess, is you didnt use wide open throttle? , and the poor engine was trying to suck 1600 CCs of air through the tiny air bleed idle hole (pencil eraser size) ?
Compression must be down W.O.T..
the worst compression is about 150. the EFI system can NOT operate with no injection, sure test fuel works, but the EFI CANT run with no air flow. it cant.
the ECU only can compensate for normal wear, and if you thought the rings were dry ( the were not) you could put 2 squirts of oil in the cylinder and if it went from 50 to 150 then the rings
are like paper thin, useless.... end of life on rings....
if it stayed at 50psi then the valves are gone.... keep in mind the test fuel test will run any lawn more engine with 50psi , my vw bug is 100 psi new. my motor cycle same. 1966
but EFI does not run total dead motors. , this is because the VE tuning tables do not go that low (full answer) what happens is it floods.
The 8v ECU just hates VE radial changes, all Speed density system do. MAF , systems love it. (16v)
with low compression the VE is all wrong.. volumetric Efficiency (ablilty to pump air) wrong. causing the MAP to lie, big time.


my guess is that not done WOT, or gauge is bad. very bad.
if all 4 are 50? the gauge is bad... ill skip this.....

Remote starts, it's not stock, and aftermarket RS are a wild card, (no 2 are the same, and no 2 installed same or correct,) after all it over-rides the primary ignition and start system of the EFI
and can cause the the ECU to go nuts. The ECU monitors all those signals. and must be connected correctly.

no problem, we leave it there and work the problem to the true cause. if the wiring is bad, so be it, we can find all bad wiring. Use a volt meter. not ohms.
(unplugging a remote start conn. in most cases can kill all starts) (if not a true parallel system (design)
case in point (in Texas, this is illegal) so mfg have to have all doors locked, to allow remote starts. if not it fails. (laws)

that tach diagram i made, it's very accurate to the point i stopped, the rev. engineering... the only key part there, are the huge BACK EMF induction spikes the ECU watches.

the tachmeter sure can short out its , input line and cause DTC 41 and not fueling for sure. disconnect the tachmeter, speedo head connector behind cluster, (sorry a pain that.)

Pin B (tps) is 100% OK.
i have not ever tried to put wrong signals on all pins of any 8v ECU, (have done so on all sensors. to may levels)

lets review them all.

first off is the start pin, after all the remote start might mess that up, id bet.
how ever, push starting my 8v starts car with the start pin false. 0v
BTW1 your ECU fails my test 6, (dead sensor tests)
BTW2 the ECT is located 4 places on 4 engines, 1.6 to 2.7L, so i link only to the finder page. but yes,, can make this better, thanks, !!

This dead test 6 means the ECU is not running the software (firmware) called Catastrophic monitors, the monitor is OUT TO LUNCH, that is a dead ECU. its in some deep backup mode.
that makes spark. the spark is a software sub process. as is fueling and CAT monitors. Dead ECU;s can have good spark, as it is the #1 primary process i think.
I suspect the cam sensor is always monitored no matter what goes wrong, (power good)
unplug dizzy, spark dies, and the monitor must tell you the CMP is dead, or the ECU is just a brick.
it only take power on 2 pins to get an ECU to work. (not go to backup) works right,
ive removed the ecu vast times, and bench tested it.
see photos below.
the power pins, and CEL lamp 4 wires. and 1 Diag jumper to ground pin, 6 wires.
and it flashes every cat code in the book. ECT , IAT, TPS, map dead, all sensor open are spit out 1 after the other, never ending.
sounds like you need a good ecu from Cardone 1>? the can do R&R too, and all are tested 100%
the ECU links for bad 8v ECU.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU-8v.html
this shows every pin, what its function.

pin B11 tells ECu you are cranking this allows better fueling with overloaded batter.
pin B12 tells ECU if you are starting in gear or not, way bad to do so with remote starts. and good remote starts watch this pin like a hawk or get sued big time... does yours?
if B1 is hot (12v) and B2 is ground its good to go.
BTW2, the ohms dont help me, only volts under normal conditions works for me, ohms is done under NO load. and lies. (it has value, if infinity only)
pin A21 is good, the TPS is sending low throttle angles, perfect. 0 to 1v (about)
it must inject , if no , non 12, DTC are present. It must or the ECU is bad.
with the stipulation that the 3v pulse to the ignitor is good, and the ignitor fires, and makes full spark (yours does) and the pulse comming back is good, tachmeter, and no code 41./42/
if that happens the injections are going to flash the noid lamp.
see my 4 pages of FSM ECU pinouts and voltages. its horsed up with new ASE/SAE names, ECT, IAT, CMP, CKP. etc.

besides a bad compression gauge. (im ignoring it, if real the T-belt did slip)) and a box of bad ECu, we can fix this.

work Test 6 failing.
Test 6 is very common to fail. bad caps. and acid it leaks kills major power traces in the motherboard (main PC), and kills major functions on the ECU. very very common the acid deal..!@!!!
does all ECu have 5vdc on the 5vref pin? this is the first test on all ECU, if dead, the ECU is useless.



Ive never seen ANY ECU fail to report a dead TACHOMETER line, not ever. id not expect it to lie.
but yours is dead, test 6 fails so how could it report anything?, the monitor is vacationing in Cancun.

pulling sensors causes the input s to go to VCC, 5vdc, and must fail, 5v is an illegal input. and reports either open fail or too high voltage fail.

the ecu watches the coil if it don't see the spikes happen , say 10 out of 10 times, it will throws DTC. (good ECUs) book say 6 pulse rule. here.

keep in mind, dead ECUs have degrees of dead. no spark , no injection, or limphome, or backup mode.
my guess is yours is below backup. no injections, ever.
if all tests pass but injectors are dead, noid dead that means the injector driver transistors are dead. (1 or both) keep in mind lots of wrecking year smart guys blow up more 8v ECU than i can count, hot wiring a 1 ohm injectors.


now this... that sir is a DEAD ECU. dead as a door nail, as they say.

with my ECT,IAT,& MAP disconnected no codes are registered with 10 sec of cranking

a good ecu will see ECT open ,even key on.
my guess is your ECU is in backup mode?
or the remote start is killing a critical voltage or signal to the ECU.


on the bench: no car needed to reject the DOA , ECU, not at all.
power wired up (ground too)
CEL wired
Diag pin grounded. jumper to ground.

must not flash code 12s, or its bad. ecu. must flash a code for all sensors disconnected, not 02. not spark yet and not CMP yet.
to get all codes to flash out, put a square wave in the CMP pin, then you get, no spark code. 41.
ive done this many a time...

below the NOID flashes, perfectly. I even have an INJECTOR dummy load to stress the INJECTOR DRIVER FULLY (i used to run major ATE )
I started with the 6 wires and worked up. The ECU monitors MUST OR the ECU is TOAST.

---

one more key 8v fact
the CMP can lie like a dog (time wise) (but makes prefect wave form (square) and the ECU will INJECT all day, as the above photo proves.
the ecu must believe the CMP, there is no CKP (crank) sensor to prove its a lying dog.

Injection rules
1: power (12vdc) good.
2: spark good.
3: TPS at 1v or lower, or near. good. 3v (or above is fail) all ball park, WOT cuts fuel , on all EFI cars.
4: no 41/42 allowed. (same as #2 really)
It must inject, you can make it do that on the bench. (no need to, but shows the truth of it)

the ECU does start the engine push stated in gear, with no starter signal. sure does.
so those pins can float.

Test 6 failure ,makes step 4 , DOA (blind)

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my jeep, oh boy, like 10 things to stop injections... a small horror.
but this 8v is dirty dog simple.

---

note im even running a home made ignitor , and still i can fool the ECU. (back EMF signals)
custom ignitor and a dummy coil . i run this dummy coils so i dont get nailed with 50,000 volts, (im gun shy, hit 100s of times)

limphome does not kill monitors in fact the monitors CAUSE limphome to activate.
Backup mode is not documented by SUzuki, ( but on most cars, its a single chip the makes crude spark and fueling, as crude as one can imagine, it is)

to the tech's out there, it's like two 555 timers, synced up, and firing the coil and injector.(yes crude, and have a buddy that made one for fun)
simular to a monkey pouring fuel down then TB and a model A ford coil making spark. (does work can demo)

---

new post, (for your box of ECU;s)
say you do all tests, and test 6 passes on say 1 ECU, and caps are not RUBYCON, but newer.
so you have spark ! no 41/42 DTCs. allowed.
TPS 1v. (not 3v) (no TPS DTCs allowed)
and the noid is dead. (this dumb ECU has no injector monitor, its TONTO, stupid) dangme.
i connect up the noid direct to ecu pins, (it works ! flashes., the 2 wires to the engine bay are bad, cut)
it's dead, no NOID direct.
so, i replace both drivers, (no scope to see who is bad, so must shot gun the drivers)
bam , injections, done many, too many.
now you can retest all the other ECU , see they are dead. with one good one to compare.

[armchairlonghair]

50 is bad, on all 4 cylinder? ??????????????
the gauge is bad... ill skip this.....

IT has 255000km on it but I don't believe it is that bad.It was at WOT. I will post the final compression hot after we get it running.
re: The VE issue and the MAP is the starter rpm enough for it to sense something? or must it not get started first

that tach diagram i made, it's very accurate to the point i stopped, the rev. engineering... the only key part there, are the huge BACK EMF induction spikes the ECU watches.

So the ECU is looking at the spikes?

the tachmeter sure can short out its , input line and cause DTC 41 and not fueling for sure. disconnect the tachmeter, speedo head connector behind cluster, (sorry a pain that.)

I have no code 41. I will try tach connector

Mine used to push start as well

BTW1 your ECU fails my test 6, (dead sensor tests)

Yes I thought that, but 2 ECU reported 42 when the voltage got to low for the CMP.

unplug dizzy, spark dies, and the monitor must tell you the CMP is dead, or the ECU is just a brick.

I just pulled dist. connector. After cranking got code 42. replug and crank code goes away. All sensors and solenoids disconnected crank and no codes other than 12. It seems the ECT is the one to try for a guaranteed code. My ECT has 4.75 v at connector. What are the sensors that will throw a code cranking. I will reinstall another ECU and retest. or try a bench test just for the codes.

pin B12 tells ECU if you are starting in gear or not, way bad to do so with remote starts. and good remote starts watch this pin like a hawk or get sued big time... does yours?

Yes the clutch pedal sw is monitored. Worked for years but then so did the tracker, actually my second ecu failure (2 yrs ago) so tracker not winning that battle

does all ECu have 5vdc on the 5vref pin? this is the first test on all ECU, if dead, the ECU is useless.

with 4.75 v at ECT and IAT,5v at MAP I must have this referance voltage at pin A23

pulling sensors causes the input s to go to VCC, 5vdc, and must fail, 5v is an illegal input. and reports either open fail or too high voltage fail.

what is VCC?

if all tests pass but injectors are dead, noid dead that means the injector driver transistors are dead. (1 or both)

back to the drawing/soldering board...

on the bench: no car needed to reject the DOA , ECU, not at all.
power wired up (ground too)
CEL wired
Diag pin grounded. jumper to ground.

new post, (for your box of ECU;s)
say you do all tests, and test 6 passes on say 1 ECU, and caps are not RUBYCON, but newer.
so you have spark ! no 41/42 DTCs. allowed.
TPS 1v. (not 3v) (no TPS DTCs allowed)
and the noid is dead. (this dumb ECU has no injector monitor, its TONTO, stupid) dangme.
i connect up the noid direct to ecu pins, (it works ! flashes., the 2 wires to the engine bay are bad, cut)
it's dead, no NOID direct.
so, i replace both drivers, (no scope to see who is bad, so must shot gun the drivers)
bam , injections, done many, too many.
now you can retest all the other ECU , see they are dead. with one good one to compare.

do the transistors show signs of failure mine look normal? I will try later tonight, thanks again

[fixkick]

your compression gauge was dropped, and is no good, im sure, im sure it 3x greater, and is wall of shock to any tech, seeing 3x lower than normal. its Horrid.
when you pull the ECT , the input goes open and to 5v, +- .25v so 4.75 is on the low end. is ok. and the ECU sees that in 100 microseconds.
and sets the ECT open DTC.
you can do this on any car, EFI and all do that. fast.

VCC/VDD is 5v dc power inside the ECU for logic devices. CC is collector DD is drain (mos)
yes, my clutch switches all got bypassed, its no big deal , i have cars and bikes that never heard of such a thing...

Your ECUs seem like sack of rocks, to me...
the ECUs that are dead, that is dead monitors.
code 12s, and
or failure to show sensors removed.

the monitor will show all sensors here.
keyon and for sure cranking
ect,iat,tps, or map pulled. 14,23,21, 31or 32. DTC (each bad force ecu to limphome fast)
other sensors need driving, EGR test, VSS,
the INJ transistors can look ok and be bad, easy.




all inputs good, and no injections. (the driver can be bad, but only if ECT pulled throws its DTC error.


i wonder what the ECU does with a melted cat,,, the map read wrong. no vacuum so the ECU might not like that.
my guess is flood. Low vacuum = max injections rates.
but the ECU has special cranking rules, that dont pay too much attention to the map until started, say over 500RPM faster than any starter can spin.
it know the air flow by RPM and IAC and ISC air flow tables.
it the cat is melted, it would try to start, the flood and stall.
one of the cat melted test is vacuum and sure compression.
that is why compression is so important, it connotes air flow. is ok. not just good valve ring sealing..
one guy here had low compression and racked the exh. manifold back 1/4 inch at the studs and bam, compression 150;
limphome loves to melt cats. (rich AFR and retarded timing, roasts its brick to slag.) (you can see why bad compression gets me worried) in this case whats the point if run time is 1/2 second. and it floods...
if you told me the cat was new, sorry, i forgot.

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the tacho input to ecu , i think that pulse is rectified, to DC, then if the voltage is low , no spark and if normal high then yes spark.
its not too important the how, but it does, and will cut fuel if the pulse is not there, i wish i had reduced the pulse bit by bit to find its threshold now, that would have fun.

point 2, im not so intimate with the software that i can not discount. that the ECU might do WOT unflood mode 2 ways, TPS over 3v OR, map stuck at atmosphere full time.
but i did it 1 time, i pulled the map hose running and it flooded in 1sec. or 2. and went to limphome, using throttle angles as air flow rules, crude it is.
I think it would not start, or wanted to flood cranking, IIRC.

[armchairlonghair]

Your ECUs seem like sack of rocks, to me...

I believe you are correct! I was able to return one I have mine and the virgin from the auto wreckers

ect,iat,tps, or map pulled. 14,23,21, 31or 32. DTC (each bad force ecu to limphome fast)
. all inputs good, and no injections. (the driver can be bad, but only if ECT pulled throws its DTC error.

I bench tested both for codes so symptoms are;
In Car both flash 12,dist. connector off crank and 42 flashes, reconnect crank turn key off then on and 12 flashes
On bench both show no codes,& have ref voltage on pin23, was there a special check engine light wattage I remember reading?

i wonder what the ECU does with a melted cat,,, the map read wrong. no vacuum so the ECU might not like that.
my guess is flood. Low vacuum = max injections rates.
but the ECU has special cranking rules, that dont pay too much attention to the map until started, say over 500RPM faster than any starter can spin.

Just for fun I tried to apply vacuum to the MAP and start it, surprise no difference. What would MAP vacuum values be?

limphome loves to melt cats. (rich AFR and retarded timing, roasts its brick to slag.) (you can see why bad compression gets me worried) in this case whats the point if run time is 1/2 second. and it floods...
if you told me the cat was new, sorry, i forgot.

This Exhaust is new to me but in great shape. I've run it for 3-4 yrs now. The vehicle has never been in limphome since I've had it.(5-6 yrs). It always dies quiet. The first time it drove normal to the store then no start when I came out. This time driving at 60km just dies like a wire cut no chug chug.

the tacho input to ecu , i think that pulse is rectified, to DC, then if the voltage is low , no spark and if normal high then yes spark.
its not too important the how, but it does, and will cut fuel if the pulse is not there, i wish i had reduced the pulse bit by bit to find its threshold now, that would have fun.

I found the "test" pay attention when test fueling engine. when it coughed the tach jumped enough to verify that it works. starter rpm was inconclusive.
So I am going to change caps on virgin ECU just for a under $5 miracle. Then get one exchanged or new from your sources. Thanks again.

[fixkick]

POST RUNS on test fuel only!
yes, and many Tachometers are very old and have trouble reading 250 RPM.. and with low battery impossble.. if it twitches there is something there, but you have spark so , its good.
i only mention the tacho because, many users have scope, and cant figure out how to see flash codes. its first check, thing. simple. but not conclusive, by any means,
the ECU will tell you if the tacho is bad. it is very reliable that way, (primary side) it can not tell that HV is good, at all.

NO codes, is a bad ECU (DOA)
ECUs that can not tell the ECT is unplugged is a bad ECU.

when changing caps be real sure you do no rip the plated through holes out of the PCB, called VIA's if you do , the PCB looses 1/2 its power and goes to backup mode.
what i do is probe every digital chip for 5v (VCC/VDD) pins for 5vdc, if not present the , power line was cut. or etched through with acid, leaks.


you are doing everything right. and 19inchs vacuum is normal for idle speed. or 10 cranking (shooting from hip) good test, the MAP is not stopping the NOID from flashing.
I assume each test is with a NOID, as it is dead, id keep it connected until, it does flash, after all the injector could be clogged or jammed. theINJ coil reads 1 ohm. so is not burned to crisp.
DEAD NOID:?
the cat will not cause the NOID to go dead. (it can only cause the engine to pump no air and have near zero vacuum cranking)

only TPS TP angle pin wrong (yours is not) 1v ok, over 3v bad, 4v is max. 5v is ground wire cut.
only code 41/42, kills the NOID. (next)
and cut injector wires. (sure) or injector hot wire grounding to frame.

and bad ECU. (injector drivers 1 or 2 or both bad) they can be open ,shorted,or weak , and good. they are both superbeta (high gain) Darlington transistors and are easy to test. (bipolar transistors are)
The are designed to run inductive loads and just hate wire shorts. and burn up easy. (shorted only)
the hot side will burn up easy , with a short (can do so and not split the transistor case or turn it to carbon,etc)
the low side burns up if the injectors shorts and high side at once, or someone hot wired the injector.

i have a transistor tester, so can check the beta easy. but you can use and ohmmeter to see if they are open or shorted, easy. (using diode selection on the dial of DMM) some meters do have Transistor tester socket on top.

put your efforts in ECU that flash codes good, after fresh caps, just the ruby's go bad, never seen other brands puke acid in suzuki ECU.

---

i use the noid lamp just in case the car has 2 problems
get the noid working first. i use a low current incandescent lamp. (easy to see it)
Some folks can not see 5 milisecond flashes of a very fast LED, lamp.... so use a real NOID lamp.
the lamp makes the flash seem longer, and works best for all humans....
BTW, i can see LED flashes that fast.

---

cap pulls
there are 2 ways, on a production line, (spent too much time there...)
a PACE de-soldering station..... but not in your shop.
way 2.

Soldering pencil, tip to cap lead, and pad, use as little heat 700F (mine has a dial for temp.) and time as possible.
get the lead straight up., not bent over if found that way.
then using a solder sucker, (spring type not bulb) and heat it,for 3 seconds and suck.
then try to wiggle the cap wire lead with solder iron tip.
repeat , suck, wiggle, at one point it's free. lead floating in hole.
this way protects, the Plated Thru hole from damage, the corner cap has such a feed thru's. it feeds DC power to the other side. and must do so.
rule 2 do not ever drill this PCB.
if you wreck the VIA, feed thru, then run a wire from top to bottom around the side of PCB. it can be fixed, if damaged.
Do not use the heat and yank trick or it will wreck the via's

[armchairlonghair]

NO codes, is a bad ECU (DOA)
ECUs that can not tell the ECT is unplugged is a bad ECU.

with 3 ECU with the same symptoms am I risking it buying one. Is it the tracker that is frying them? Can I trust to put a new one in?

when changing caps be real sure you do no rip the plated through holes out of the PCB, called VIA's if you do , the PCB looses 1/2 its power and goes to backup mode.
what i do is probe every digital chip for 5v (VCC/VDD) pins for 5vdc, if not present the , power line was cut. or etched through with acid, leaks.

which is the 5v pin on these chips?

you are doing everything right. and 19inchs vacuum is normal for idle speed. or 10 cranking (shooting from hip) good test, the MAP is not stopping the NOID
DEAD NOID:?

I used about 12 inch vacuum.

i have a transistor tester, so can check the beta easy. but you can use and ohmmeter to see if they are open or shorted, easy. (using diode selection on the dial of DMM) some meters do have Transistor tester socket on top.

I guess after the Cap change. I didn't really want to pull them off the board and heat sink just to test. will wait till I have one flashing codes

put your efforts in ECU that flash codes good, after fresh caps, just the ruby's go bad, never seen other brands puke acid in suzuki ECU.

---

i use the noid lamp just in case the car has 2 problems
get the noid working first. i use a low current incandescent lamp. (easy to see it)
Some folks can not see 5 milisecond flashes of a very fast LED, lamp.... so use a real NOID lamp.
the lamp makes the flash seem longer, and works best for all humans....
BTW, i can see LED flashes that fast.

The Noid light tests fine with 12 v applied. I was only able to find L-6 / 8v 35mA lamp. Radio shack is not in Canada anymore.I found an old catalog and cross ref the part # with no joy. You could mention on your pages that these lamps are for doll house displays and may be found at hobby stores

then using a solder sucker, (spring type not bulb) and heat it,for 3 seconds and suck.
then try to wiggle the cap wire lead with solder iron tip.
repeat , suck, wiggle, at one point it's free. lead floating in hole.
this way protects, the Plated Thru hole from damage, the corner cap has such a feed thru's. it feeds DC power to the other side. and must do so.
rule 2 do not ever drill this PCB.
if you wreck the VIA, feed thru, then run a wire from top to bottom around the side of PCB. it can be fixed, if damaged.
Do not use the heat and yank trick or it will wreck the via's

I have a solder sucker but perhaps could have been more careful. The VIA repair seems odd does the pin of the cap not do this as it goes all the way through? the solder in the hole same question? How can I attach to the via's to wire around the board?

Most importantly I am only able to locally source 63 v or 35 v caps is this a problem and which would you use if you had a choice?

Thanks for helping me through this frustration.

[fixkick]

NO codes, is a bad ECU (DOA)
ECUs that can not tell the ECT is unplugged is a bad ECU.

with 3 ECU with the same symptoms am I risking it buying one. Is it the tracker that is frying them? Can I trust to put a new one in?
great question, if the injector wires are not shorted the ECU;s are not being blown up. in car, (not withstanding, other outputs shorted to12v, like iSC, or any VSV solenoid, ) but just focusing on NOID Flashes, just the 2 wire, on the injector must not be shorted.

when changing caps be real sure you do no rip the plated through holes out of the PCB, called VIA's if you do , the PCB looses 1/2 its power and goes to backup mode.
what i do is probe every digital chip for 5v (VCC/VDD) pins for 5vdc, if not present the , power line was cut. or etched through with acid, leaks.

which is the 5v pin on these chips? (each one has a datasheet and VCC/VDD is stated there. ( i just check some TTL chips there, and the processor.)
(ill make a list, tomorrow.)

you are doing everything right. and 19inchs vacuum is normal for idle speed. or 10 cranking (shooting from hip) good test, the MAP is not stopping the NOID
DEAD NOID:?

I used about 12 inch vacuum. good . sign

i have a transistor tester, so can check the beta easy. but you can use and ohmmeter to see if they are open or shorted, easy. (using diode selection on the dial of DMM) some meters do have Transistor tester socket on top.

I guess after the Cap change. I didn't really want to pull them off the board and heat sink just to test. will wait till I have one flashing codes.
yes, id not fix a driver transistor with no code 12, or ECT not showing DTC code failures, cranking. very savvy that....

put your efforts in ECU that flash codes good, after fresh caps, just the ruby's go bad, never seen other brands puke acid in suzuki ECU.

---

i use the noid lamp just in case the car has 2 problems
get the noid working first. i use a low current incandescent lamp. (easy to see it)
Some folks can not see 5 milisecond flashes of a very fast LED, lamp.... so use a real NOID lamp.
the lamp makes the flash seem longer, and works best for all humans....
BTW, i can see LED flashes that fast.

The Noid light tests fine with 12 v applied. I was only able to find L-6 / 8v 35mA lamp. Radio shack is not in Canada anymore.I found an old catalog and cross ref the part # with no joy. You could mention on your pages that these lamps are for doll house displays and may be found at hobby stores, yes,,,,will do
yes, radio dial (old) lamps are weak or use a CEL lamp, it to is s weak lamp. 100ma or less. should work good.
i like to keep it low to see leaking transistors. I key on and the lamp must be out. overheated transistors love to leak, C to E pin.
any weak 12v lamp is a go..

then using a solder sucker, (spring type not bulb) and heat it,for 3 seconds and suck.
then try to wiggle the cap wire lead with solder iron tip.
repeat , suck, wiggle, at one point it's free. lead floating in hole.
this way protects, the Plated Thru hole from damage, the corner cap has such a feed thru's. it feeds DC power to the other side. and must do so.
rule 2 do not ever drill this PCB.
if you wreck the VIA, feed thru, then run a wire from top to bottom around the side of PCB. it can be fixed, if damaged.
Do not use the heat and yank trick or it will wreck the via's

I have a solder sucker but perhaps could have been more careful.
The VIA repair seems odd does the pin of the cap not do this as it goes all the way through? (yes but now you must top and bottom solder each pin.
and then you must keep cap real high, and yes, have done that.
the solder in the hole same question? How can I attach to the via's to wire around the board?
the pad has trace, we scrape it, then solder tin it, then attach (solder) wire to that , then around to other side and same.
you ask the best questions..!!!!

Most importantly I am only able to locally source 63 v or 35 v caps is this a problem and which would you use if you had a choice?
63v, and many ecu left factory that way, go higher.

Thanks for helping me through this frustration.

you are on a roll, good luck to you...!!!