MPI 16v injector replacement

[zukitrek]

Hi Fix. Im in the process of overhauling my fuel system and thought about replacing all the injectors along with o-ring set for each. I found some P/N in your hard to find parts list and found this on the net:

http://www.shopinjectors.com/fuel-injectors/mp3041.htm

Do you think this would do the trick? I know I have to send my CORE deposit but it sure beats getting all four new at a $100+. Anything to watch out for when getting reman injectors?

Thanks!!

[fixkick]

just clean them.
http://www.witchhunter.com/

reverse cleaned ultra sound.
with before and after flow rates, on the report.
they do a great job.
id say many do. and some overcharge.
'

[zukitrek]

just clean them.
http://www.witchhunter.com/

reverse cleaned ultra sound.
with before and after flow rates, on the report.
they do a great job.
id say many do. and some overcharge.
'

Sounds good but downtime is 7 days. Lets see if I find a local business who does it. There must be.

---

Witchhunter does not hunt for witch injectors from PR. Let me see what I can find locally.

[zukitrek]

Fix if all my emission/sensors/fuel system components are in proper tune and order and:
1-not having Rolling resistance too high
2-avoiding Poor Driving Habits
3-a not too heavy a car, no 1000 lbs of bricks loaded in the cargo area? nor pulling a heavy trailer?
4-did not drive to the top of any high mountain and expected High MPG on the way up
5-not driving over 3/4 or 75% throttle all the time?
6-Done in flat open road? (not my reality here but..)

In other words I would get those 19-28MPG range?

Thanks!!

[fixkick]

yes, finding local pro injector service can be hard.
many just attach (after removing front rail plug and putting on the adapter.) a mini tank.
this tank holds a special cleaner. (commercial injector cleaner, that burns, they also sell non burnable like what witchunter uses...)
and the tank is connected to shop air and a 30psi regulator. (or has its own extra air in tank, preloaded)
so it runs untill this mini tank runs dry. in the hope the injectors are cleaned. (mostly just a dream,,,,,imo... but cheap fix if it works. sure. (tool in shop paid for.)

i guess you never read this... my first link on my first page
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/orig-sales-sticker.jpg

see this LOOK? 19 to 30, is the official spec. and i have links my MPG page to a major MPG web site, showing 100s. of folks what they get. no lack of data....
and what you get in the city , is anything, city traffic has no worst case and gets worse every year.... more cars, more bad.
every time you stop. the MPG goes NEGATIVE ! see?


open source too....
build the mpg gage. listed on same page.... learn what car does, and how to drive. (highway,, in the city , there is little you can do, avoid it, take altenate routes use GPS live data, for you tomtom and avoid traffic? but MPG is highway thing,.... unless you an electric car or hybrid.
those 2 can use no fuel at all at a stop sign.. (directly or indirectly)

you dont have a scan tool
so you cant even see if closed loop works , at idle, and light cruise? (right no tool)? this is the key factor to best MPG, on all EFI engines.


Cheers..... the above data, is USA data using USA gallons, and newer, imperial gallons that go much farther...(as seen in odd places, in say Canada)
the gallons deal.
http://www.fixkick.com/what_is_a_gallon.html

seen here, Graphically ! on the red can, fuel folks know it even exists. but.... it keeps popping up..... oddly.
so on those cars, 29mpg is. 34.8 mpg, but is the same number.... (fuel rates same)

---

is say that, because some islands still use imperial measure, from the British commonwealth , long ago, in a time warp....aka ."Crown Colonies"
but liters ,never lie.... so.....

---

my mpg page covers , always to get poor MPG, (hope)
ever read it?
huge factors and variables exist.... vast.
even a bad bearing. or a warped exhaust, header flange or leak there.

---

or running low tire pressures, as Oh'bummer said...

---

ever seen the Gauge.

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/MPGuino

there it is,
no better way to learn how to MPG drive. shows the sweet spot in top gear. letting you know, oh .oh, me driving too fast, see the MPG go bad.
in real time... it does that. (instant MPG) (happens in 02 closed loop , only)

---

they'd sell these in stores.....
but there are very few folks driving 1995 cars. or older. (most were retired, or wrecked or the transmission quite and costs more than car is worth, truth being...)
and fewer yet, with cash to buy tools or have time to make make one. (or a Ham buddy to solder it)
it uses the 02 and MAF to reverse calculate the MPG. with VSS sensor.
the 02 and maf tells you live fuel consumed. (stoich rules on he 02 do that)
the VSS tells you how far. (tail shaft speeds)
and then algebra does, MPG = miles/Gallon. / = divide,
the tool must be calibrated to your axle ratio. to make the VSS data correct.

but a scan tool would work better, im my opinion, to see if the engine is running right.
with a scan tool I can get those 3 above data values and log them and do MPG calcs, sitting at a desk.... at home.
my mpg page shows me doing just that, and my MAF page, same data..

---

the tool is here.
http://www.rhinopower.org/diag/sdl_if.html

the only one on planet earth.
not used off ebay called a tech1, for $400 to $800 bucks, USD and OLD. and a hope that a tool that old still works.

i gave up hacking it long ago. (went 100% jeep when suzuki went chapter 11 here, a pain getting parts now , here)
http://www.fixkick.com/hacking/hacked/ad...l#NEW-wave

---

Suzuki never published the protocol , nor interface signaling rates or levels.
it's all a big secret.
only tedious reverse engineering works,
except to Tech1 maker, long ago, Vetronix, now owned by R. BOSCH.
they may have plug-ins for the newer Tech2, but that tools is way more expensive,
like here
https://suzukipitstopplus.com/Category/1...-tool.aspx

[zukitrek]

so it runs untill this mini tank runs dry. in the hope the injectors are cleaned. (mostly just a dream,,,,,imo... but cheap fix if it works. sure. (tool in shop paid for.)
Well I asked if getting new ones would be better and you suggested the cleaning service which could be hard to find, well again it is not better to get reman ones?

i guess you never read this... my first link on my first page
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/orig-sales-sticker.jpg
Oh I have read lots and lot of your pagas but that particular link no. BTW your site being very comprehensive and informative it is very overwhelming in terms off how info is presented, links in sentences all over the place and so on and so forth. Just last night I spent 40 minutes reading on about differents things. But don't get me wrong it is the best site Ive seen as how to really fix cars.

see this LOOK? 19 to 30, is the official spec. and i have links my MPG page to a major MPG web site, showing 100s. of folks what they get. no lack of data....
and what you get in the city , is anything, city traffic has no worst case and gets worse every year.... more cars, more bad.
every time you stop. the MPG goes NEGATIVE ! see?
I know that. I have a friend that has and in dash MPG calculator (stock) on a 2001 Passat and Ive seen how is affected in slow traffic and cruising.


open source too....
build the mpg gage. listed on same page.... learn what car does, and how to drive. (highway,, in the city , there is little you can do, avoid it, take altenate routes use GPS live data, for you tomtom and avoid traffic? but MPG is highway thing,.... unless you an electric car or hybrid.
those 2 can use no fuel at all at a stop sign.. (directly or indirectly)

you dont have a scan tool
so you cant even see if closed loop works , at idle, and light cruise? (right no tool)? this is the key factor to best MPG, on all EFI engines.


Cheers..... the above data, is USA data using USA gallons, and newer, imperial gallons that go much farther...(as seen in odd places, in say Canada)
the gallons deal.
http://www.fixkick.com/what_is_a_gallon.html


seen here, Graphically ! on the red can, fuel folks know it even exists. but.... it keeps popping up..... oddly.
so on those cars, 29mpg is. 34.8 mpg, but is the same number.... (fuel rates same)

---

is say that, because some islands still use imperial measure, from the British commonwealth , long ago, in a time warp....aka ."Crown Colonies"
but liters ,never lie.... so.....

---

Here we uses liters, price is for liters, but no Brit standards here. They tried to get in but failed.

my mpg page covers , always to get poor MPG, (hope)
ever read it?
huge factors and variables exist.... vast.
even a bad bearing. or a warped exhaust, header flange or leak there.

---

or running low tire pressures, as Oh'bummer said...

---

Actually the thing not to do from my post question is a copy paste of your page on how to get better MPG. So that answers that.
ever seen the Gauge.

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/MPGuino

there it is,
no better way to learn how to MPG drive. shows the sweet spot in top gear. letting you know, oh .oh, me driving too fast, see the MPG go bad.
in real time... it does that. (instant MPG) (happens in 02 closed loop , only)

---

they'd sell these in stores.....
but there are very few folks driving 1995 cars. or older. (most were retired, or wrecked or the transmission quite and costs more than car is worth, truth being...)
and fewer yet, with cash to buy tools or have time to make make one. (or a Ham buddy to solder it)
it uses the 02 and MAF to reverse calculate the MPG. with VSS sensor.
the 02 and maf tells you live fuel consumed. (stoich rules on he 02 do that)
the VSS tells you how far. (tail shaft speeds)
and then algebra does, MPG = miles/Gallon. / = divide,
the tool must be calibrated to your axle ratio. to make the VSS data correct.

but a scan tool would work better, im my opinion, to see if the engine is running right.
with a scan tool I can get those 3 above data values and log them and do MPG calcs, sitting at a desk.... at home.
my mpg page shows me doing just that, and my MAF page, same data..
I guess like you say car being that old makes it more difficult.

---

the tool is here.
http://www.rhinopower.org/diag/sdl_if.html

the only one on planet earth.
not used off ebay called a tech1, for $400 to $800 bucks, USD and OLD. and a hope that a tool that old still works.

i gave up hacking it long ago. (went 100% jeep when suzuki went chapter 11 here, a pain getting parts now , here (and here) )
http://www.fixkick.com/hacking/hacked/ad...l#NEW-wave

---

So is it time for me to get a Jeep?
Suzuki never published the protocol , nor interface signaling rates or levels.
it's all a big secret.
only tedious reverse engineering works,
except to Tech1 maker, long ago, Vetronix, now owned by R. BOSCH.
they may have plug-ins for the newer Tech2, but that tools is way more expensive,
like here
https://suzukipitstopplus.com/Category/1...-tool.aspx

Well just to get an average on my MPG since my options are few. Would the mileage at instrument at fill up vs miles driven and next fill up calculation that I see a lot on web sites, would at least give me a number close so I would have an idea?

Gracias!!!

---

Are these still available?

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/MPGuino

[fixkick]

please be aware that the real world is analog.
and wear and contamination, varies, by age of car and use or abuse. and pure luck (bad gas)
nobody can tell you what to do with any injector. (cept to get them cleaned if suspect)
injector have many failure modes...(im not listing them all) partial clogging of tiny spray nozzles, sticking? or will not flow 100% at wide open throttle?
mostly when all things are checked first, we then check the injectors, they can also leak.

tuning any car lacking a scan tool is and exercise in pure grief..... and takes full set of meters and a scope.
in may causes i've had to connect wires to sensors and then to my logging DMM meter, drive and log data to find problems.
it's a long and tedious job, the cure is buy a 1996+ car ,, solved. ($10 scan tool saves day and most all that excess work)
same with MPG, no scan tool, means you never know engine is running right?, until MPG looks good! and if not?, we know zero, as to why.

the older car is not just more difficult , is very difficult.
In fact, that is why they invented OBD2, (1/2 the reason,smog is other) was major mech. shops complained to Congress. (we need a standard tool to scan, so we can stop guessing and stop wasting 3 days on endless manual testing.... endless.....
the lack of tools meant that the engine issues were not corrected, or only in part and this too increased smog in the whole fleet.
motor.com has the history of that...

http://www.motor.com/articles.asp

Why not buy the rhino tool.. ? its not expensive. (software free , buy cable)

I'd not run pre 96 with out it. (did so back in 2007 but there was no tool then)

[zukitrek]

Thank you. Will read on for sure. You dont know how much I have learned with you even in my limited knowledge of electronics and lack of of precision tools. Lets see how can I improve myself in getting my truck a bit better.

Gracias!!

[zukitrek]

Good day Fix. I was looking all over that motor.com link you sent and did a search but could not find the article related to the OBD2 article or so you mentioned.

Fix will doing a swap to a whole obd2 engine+tranny work backwards in my 94? or too much ha$$le and waste of work? Just saying.

The MPGuino is not possible for my 94 right?

Javier

[fixkick]

that link is a bottomless topic, i have like 100's of old issues of the mag, in my library. one of those pubs, even on EFI testing....
teaches how to test sensor, and to make simulated sensors,,,, (even maf or map , )

no, just saying diagnosing NON oBD2 cars, takes lots of time and money and a shop with tools to do all tests by hand, 1 by 1,
no, sorry the MPGuino works on any car with 1 or more injector (electric)
all it does is take injector pulse-width (measures it in real time ) and speed, VSS sensor. and calculated, MPG. it's just 2 inputs. a tiny processor and some simple code. (and a scaling factor for your car) the scaling factor is (the flow rates of you injector) FUEL Flow rates and speed, = MPG.
It is a very simple device, you can even read the programming code, and learn that. (a very in demand skill that)

On modern cars, we have this data in OBD2 streaming data. sets.. your car does not have this feature, (but we can scan PIDS 1 by 1)

so, the maker of the MPGuno , solved that,,, the hard way, the same hard way that all tech. know , about OBD1.
measuring all sensors by hand, or worse while driving, (imaging, distracted driving and accidents) so is done with 2 persons, 1 driving one doing measurements.

nobody takes a old car and upgrades to 0BD2

working on OBD1 cars, is not easy , ever. (unless we have the luck of he Irish)?
A real scan tool can be had, if you want to save all that hard work....
case in point, what if the 02 Closed loop is dead..???
case2: what if the ECU gets lost, while injection (obd1 has no, IM lost. DTC ,like OBD2 has)
by lost I mean , the ECU has no full control or injection rates. and is guessing, or hunting endlessly to do that.
The ECU has no redundant sensor, so must trust them 100% (it does , dead sensors , im talking accurate sensors that are not biased)
the ECU reads a sensor and if its , not open or shorted, believes it.
this is where a scan tool Shines.
The human looks at the data and sees, omg, that it totally wrong,
say ECT reads -10f when its really 50F..... see how humans are 100x smarter than any ECU on earth??
same with the MAP or MAF, and IAT, and 02.
same with fuel trim.
and all data in to the ECU.

no scope
no duty meter.
no mpg gauge.(to solve mpg problems )
no scan tool.
this is called working blind...... and all results will be hard earned if at all.