Greetings..and..Transmission

[zukitrek]

crossing fingers for you on 5 gear not whining...

My 5speed whines in 5th gear very softly, but it does. This was happening even before I did my engine rebuild and even before I tore down the tranny. Actually I could not see any damage (to my knowledge) of the 5th gear. What could this be? BTW is my 87 Civic.

Cheers!!

[GeoHacker]

crossing fingers for you on 5 gear not whining...

My 5speed whines in 5th gear very softly, but it does. This was happening even before I did my engine rebuild and even before I tore down the tranny. Actually I could not see any damage (to my knowledge) of the 5th gear. What could this be? BTW is my 87 Civic.

Cheers!!

Mine used to whir nicely too, not real loud but obvious, until I think a combination of low oil and a lot of 55 and 65 mph driving changed something. I don't know what caused my sudden increase in noise for sure, hope it was the bad rear bearing. One fear is that I get this all back together, find it's something else in the drivetrain.

In my case, 1992 Geo Tracker 4wd 5 speed, the 5th gear is (was, until Loctite 660) very loose on the countershaft splines. It's not the gear's splines but the countershaft splines though that are the problem. Reverse area was in good shape in comparison.

The splines where 5th counter gear lives have a kind of a rotational hammer damage, sort of a raised up area in the load direction if looking end on, folded over some. I think this is from years of 5th gear highway driving loading, and unloading with traffic using engine brake, etc, but that's a guess.

Anyway, pondering possible causes of noise, I used a new needle/roller bearing in the smaller 5th on the mainshaft (though it seems less robust then the one that was there) and for the big 5th gear situation, tried the Loctite, in case that hammering back and forth from the slop was the cause of the noise. My counter rear bearing was worn also, and that surely contributed some.

Trail Tough guy, who kindly sold me a circlip I'd lost, told me ok to assemble my big 5th gear without the Loctite, but I felt better with. Again, I am not sure what caused my problem, other than I had a really low oil level (missing a couple rubber plugs and not enough maintenance).

I wouldn't worry about yours unless it gets louder over time, or over a week's time like mine did. Lot of other people have mentioned their Trackers whirring along in places. But when it starts to sound like a banshee at high speed, like a plane in a dive or something, something's bad off. I suppose one option was to add back the oil as I did, and keep driving until something blew. Then I'd have known for sure. If none of this was the problem then I still get to do that I suppose. If it runs after sitting so long.

rc

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In other news, the output shaft rear seal included in my trans kit sure seems to place the sealing shaft-ride area too far back compared to the old seal. The new puts the sealing area mighty close to the clrclip. There's about a 1/8" or more difference in the old and new locations. The original seal rode the shaft about 1/4" out from the circlip.

I ordered a cross-ref'ed SKF 9795 to see if will fit closer to where the other was, but dimension wise seems like the one I was sent already. I don't want it exactly where the other was, it's worn in some, but not that far back towards the circlip, either. I guess I can not pound it in so far, but it's only .394 or so deep to begin with, whereas the original NOK is 0.5".

?

[GeoHacker]

Probably am worrying about that seal too much.

Transmission gear case is all bolted back up, and torqued. That Threebond 1211 is great stuff, thanks for the recommend. Works like Elmer's glue almost.

I smoothed it on, let it set a wee bit, put the cases together and hand tightened (not too much, just slightly firm with the ratchet, evenly all around until the case was set proper), then let sit an hour and a half more, and then torqued to spec.

Hopefully all the shift dogs are in their right places. Levers are still where they were and should be. Went together nice enough. No shafts laying outside that I missed.

I never want to do this again. Somebody's getting a free car if I do.

[zukitrek]

Yes the whining is subtle and low, no Banshee scream for sure. In my case I had detected this in 2011 after a timing belt and master brake cylinder job. In 2013 I took the carb out for overhauling and it all ended 2 years later as total engine rebuild, tranny refresh and initial body work (still doing body repairs). But car is running like a charm (in most part thanks to Fixkick), until I heard the whining again in 5th, which I had totally forgotten it did, way before the rebuild.

During the rebuild I said: why not disassemble the tranny for inspection and cleaning? Magnet was so covered in metal dust that actually it looked like a totally different part. Now is all cleaned up and fresh oil in. Writing this I did remember the whining upon inspection of the 5th but saw nothing peculiar or damaged about it. So, so far all good and smooth, except for the low whining.

Regards and thanks!!

[GeoHacker]

So, so far all good and smooth, except for the low whining.

Regards and thanks!!

You're welcome, thanks for dropping in.

Fixkick would know better than me about all of this (his encouragement and tips have been a huge help here too), but minor metal is ok from what I've read here and elsewhere. Chunks though, are indications of something more serious going on.

My transmission had a bunch of magnetic fuzz around the plug, nothing major really.

Next check may find black lab dog hair remnants impaled in bearing remains. Tried to get it all out, succeeded mostly I think, but that stuff sticks to grease and oil like nothing else, particularly that fine insulating fuzz.

"Dog hair kills Geo transmission in only 2k miles! New world record for futile efforts in category: animal sabotage."

Because I've lost my mind at this point, I added some bling (gold paint) to provide a little charm to the box, so the clutch has something nice to look at, and to give the car a little bling in case somebody gets to visit it again someday at some parts yard. (2k miles I reckon, thanks dog) All mating surfaces are nice and shiny before sealing, not like the rest of the dirty old thing.

Seals have grease applied so no dry startup. Next up…bell housing…then spacer and transfer. Need to locate some more GL-4.

[zukitrek]

My friend I have followed your ordeal and I must say Hats off to you. This is not an easy task and you took it on like a champ and of course with Fix help.

Best of lucks and keep us posted!!

[fixkick]

nice job.
finding all parts that have zero future in a box is not easy. blued gears are one, or loose fit.
the fuzz on the mag is normal , but not large chunks, all trans do that as the gear wear in , (them wear and get kinda married)
super nice job.... hats off, trumpets blare... TAADAH !

[GeoHacker]

super nice job.... hats off, trumpets blare... TAADAH !

Thanks. Is nice is is going back.

Um…back before I read this site better, I took off that clutch pull lever you're not supposed to remove (it was hitting the undercarriage during removal)), and though I marked both pieces, the weather kind of unmarked them a little. I think I have it back where it was now though.

If you eyeball along the release bearing prongs, and the lever itself, they are parallel with each other, aligned.

So I am thinking I have it right, and it does align with the remaining visible scratches in the 2 places I put, so that's more assurance. The other assurance is that if it's off by one spline, doesn't slide down easy, but if put where seems right, slides on down easy all the way.

There's a dimple-dot in the shaft cross section, but I don't see as nice a matching mark on my lever. However, if the tiny pit that I see is the remnant of a dimple-dot on the lever, then it is aligned correctly based on the other dot. I just can't tell if it's a corrosion pit, or a dimple on the lever It's a smaller dot than the dot on the shaft, but it is opposite it.

I think it's good though.

r

[GeoHacker]

I am about ready to seal up the spacer case, with the end cap and output shaft seal.

The dry area outside those has no drain slot or weep hole that I can tell. So how would one know if the seals end up leaking or not in that area?

OK to drill a 1/16" weep hole at bottom perchance? Not counting on doom but just wondering how to know if any leak arising is from there? So I know to fill it up full of ATP AT-205 seal polymer goodness (planning ahead)?

[GeoHacker]

Is it OK to fill up the transmission and transfer case with the gear oil before installing them back? I know it would add some weight, but seems easier to fill while outside the vehicle, long as I keep the assembly parallel/level as when in the car.

Manual says caution: add oil after installation, but not sure if that is a caution note as to oil itself, a reminder, or if it needs to wait for some reason.

Thanks for any input.