G16A Main Bearing Caps

[Nunapitchuk]

Thanks. So for your information:
I was not able to find measurements for "standard bearings" from the Federal Mogul site you suggested. King bearings and one ebay seller did give their measurements.
No surprise: They both had different measurements for "standard" size.
No one else will tell the measurements. Seems so strange.
Selling main bearings without giving the measurements? I don't get it, but I can tell that "standard" is not standard.
I will take some time and see if any of the original bearings from the cracked block or my other cracked block will give me the proper clearances on this block.

[fixkick]

the 96full engine manual is here. just to see how crazy 9 bearings sizes are.
standard at suzuki is not same as USA bearings
that is because no USA maker does the crazy 9 sizes, that be nuts on 2019 precision ground cranks by hand,



suzuki has no true standard bearing,only 5color codes base off those cazy grinding wheels. (9 codes)
the had way to precision grind any factory crank,ever.


1996 (off post one, this forum sticky, see page 6a, engine,,g16b are all the same.
http://ge.tt/6gvplbp2

6a is 20mb pdf doc
6A1-46 Shows standard size.and up to page 50 ,on mains and the 9 codes.

this only works in japan at suzuki and all those parts are not sold now,
the only use of the above is stock worn cranks you read the above page and check your 4 journals for 9 possible sizes and check clearances.

.
.
all this oddness is for the crude factory gang grinder. (9 sizes just on mAINS.)
later one can grind the crank to suzuki spec and use suzuki bearings but now, the cant deliver them.

but nobody does this now, for cost reasons and suzuki does not sell all sizes,now, discontinued, on many sizes so forget them.

what happens is if the clearances are no good, with the stock bearing to matching crank. (if is still stock)
if clearances are wrong,
then the crank must be ground, .010 or .020 ( and then finished ground the exact size, in the data sheet from say king.

the word standard has no meaning, on the king end, really but guess its the most loose suzuki standard 9 size.
id you read the mogul data sheet it does spec out all bearing it sold 100%, ask them get it.

how can one king bearing 1 size standard fit the 5 Suzuki standard cranks, it can not,unless super loose.( im sure this is true and nobody buys those)
The new bearings from mogul will never fit any stock suzuki crank made, ever. (unless ground)


but lets go there now,,, you do know that cranks can be sprayed with liquid hot iron and then ground to king,trw or fed mogul spec, right?
same story on cams , for sure cams that are not to be found on earth now.

http://www.rapowersolutions.com/Rebuildi...Spray.aspx

see vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeBpF84Q9M


for sure new bearings have full complete spec, for all sized, so you didnt ask them for the data sheet. is why. (china clone crap ,notwithstanding are junk)
after this they grind the crank to new standard, NOT japans metric, but to say Fed Moguls data sheet, PRECISION ground and polished.
Japan is now out of the loop or picture, one is grinding the crank to USA bearing spec, Precision ground.

when you let the machine shop do all this? they buy the bearing too, and use the sheets with them to do this right
the do not read the PDF above, at all, after the first bearing clearance measurements.
...

simple :
if the clearances are wrong, the crank must be ground. and king/mogul/trw spec and bearing precision fit.
if not, put the bearings back exactly like you found them. in the correct ORDer
AND NO you cant mix caps and make any of this work ever.

[fixkick]

step one, you mark all bearings as the come out, do not mix up any. 9 sizes just on mains, ok?

2: we check all clearances to susuki spec, both ways, mike/bore gage and with Plastigage
3: if it passes, then I have my crank polished, makes it stronger, and lubes better.
4:if fails the cranks is ground, to .010, if not clean, .020 inch undersized for over sized bearing matched.
5: new bearing fitted at time of grind, the bearings are perfect and crank is ground to this new perfection that suzuki could never do.

at step 2, you might discover anything, even journals ground in the USA, and using USA bearing,so takes skill discovering this, and deciding what you have.


https://metallisation.com/applications/r...asmaspray/

[fixkick]

once the crank is ground, all steps now USA steps
using USA tooling and USA, bearing and imperial measurements ,not metric. as it was new.
using uSA king/mogul,TRw real data sheets. to USA spec.
that is how this is done.

some cranks are sold rebuilt for $300 fully ground and perfect bearings prefitted/
so that is choices, 4
machine shop
you do? how? IDK,not me,
or rebuilt turn key crank
or find a 25 year old crank not worn out.good luck here.

or plastigage it and say good enough and drive it like you stole it...,,, I will not judge this, it's your buggy.

[fixkick]

king diameter , 44.000 / 43.983 mm , cold not find a data sheet there.

alternates
ACL
CLEVITE
FMOGUL
KS
NDC
NPR
OEM 12100-60820 suz.
king CR4056AM

the king catalog (ecat is useless) the PDF is huge 1000 pages
page 474 is it,
they have data sheet I can not find, showing the many sizes.

see the 7 sizes here, std, up to 1.5mm cut




Id call king and ask for data sheet. CR4056aM If that yours, they have like 4 grades up to burning nitro methane (fuelers)

[fixkick]

did you buy the bearing and open the box, its inside the box, if not the machine shop sends them back
each maker decides what sizes they use,
each makes knows the crank was ground for sure. to as spec.
no usa maker ,makes bearing for any stock crank. see why,? that gang grinding crude in the factory.
only susuki used to, not now,,,,
so if the bearings you have are too lose, the the crank must be ground
ask your machinist this, buy one lunch and get the scoop here

what the machinist does is, if bearings dont fit and more (loose), now. (300k miles)
he mikes it to see if .25 or 0.5 or 1.0 mm will clear the damage. just like boring cylinders. 0.25mm is 0.00984252 inches
as you can see they have inches and metric bearings, and the crank grinder uses the data sheet to get the exact grind.
he orders the beariings opens the box and there must be a data sheet inside, showing and telling the grinder man what to do.
that is it.
the goal is.0008 to .001" CLEARANCE, 12 TO 6PM ON THE JOURNAL. THAT IS WHAT HE DOES. AT FULL MAIN CAP TORQUE AND ATTENDANT CRUSH.

[Nunapitchuk]

OK. Thanks.
I will measure the rest of the main bores today and see what I can figure out.

[Nunapitchuk]

I have been studying hard and think I have my answers now.
The point that I think Fixkick was making is the same that a machinist just explained to me, that is:
Machinist orders the bearings that are a little too big and then makes the crankshaft & housing bore fit the bearings.
Still strange that bearing sellers do not always post the size info for their bearings.
Anyway, after careful measuring I find that my crankshaft journals are all the same and within specs and not out of round. Also, all of my housing bores are exactly the same to within less than 0.0005". They are all just a tiny bit bigger than the biggest size in the service manual chart.
After comparing carefully the 9 size combinations, I have decided that if I get the "yellow" bearings (all 5 the same) then they should work without having to do any machining to make them fit. Important to me because I don't have machine shop.
Then I did a lot of online shopping (hours and hours).
I found that Suzuki does still make the color coded bearings because they are used in a variety of engines on cars, boats, and motorcycles. Problem is that they changed the part numbers for these color coded bearings. Searching for main bearings does not work well, but searching for the part number does work well. The Suzuki color coded main bearing are sold individually (not in sets of 5).
I will attach screenshot of my study notes along with my shopping notes. They might be useful to someone?
   
   

[fixkick]

ok the original bearings were lost and shell color codes lost with them but the crank has block stamp code for each main. so 1./2 the 3x3 code are known on all 4. mains.
the sells are round on the inside
outsides are line bored on the factory and are all the same, exactly, and the shells are a crush fit, all are.,even the rods
its much more easy to tell this then type, it.
the big engine builders books cover all this.
the suzuki bearings to not use the USA or European standards, at all and use suzuki only based on the silly wild inaccurate gang grinding machined.
and sure, if the crank is not worn sure suzuki bearings fit,(if crank was not ground here)
I did not know, the bearings have new numbers, how odd is that, that the official page fails to show corrected number that all other parts on car have (vastly)

I may be useful but really now many stock cranks are not worn out or reground.? very very rare that.
worst of all are cracks. cracks love to crack more, just like earth quake faults do, and is (later)both vibration causes but thermal cycling, that is why the are rejected out of hand.
nice chart for sure better than the poor GM book the Suzuki books are better but omg rare.(now)