EGR Issues Part II

[cosmic_splatter]

Fixkick,

Here's where I am at with my EGR repair....

I removed the sidewinder and egr main valve and cleaned everything very well. Diaphragm is moving nice. Air is flowing through everything up through the top of the sidewinder.

While doing the cleaning on those two parts, I noticed this pinched vacuum hose on the egr solenoid. I put everything back together and the check engine light went off. Good news, but not totally fixed.
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/g...53_48.jpeg

I am still seeing several issues.
1. The EGR valve tests fail to stall the engine. Both diaphragm and vacuum test.

2. When on a test drive, Rhinoview shows that the EGR never activates and the engine never goes into closed loop. I'm not certain how long it takes to go to closed loop, but I drove about a mile or two down the road. Both things seem odd.

What should I do next?
1. I'm thinking I need to remove the throttle body to clean that orifice so that the stall test passes. If you have to remove the throttle body are there any things you need to know? Or, do you simply remove the 4 bolts and remove it?

2. I'm not certain why the ecu is not calling for the egr to activate. If I take the line off the EGR modulator, there is no vacuum to pull the valve open.

3. What's up with the closed loop function? Why is the engine not going into closed loop?

Any suggestions?

[fixkick]

keep in mind 500 and 400 rpm is a stall. a very very strong engine, can run very slow, and many do just that.
it can stall or nearly , see it shake like wet dog, bingo that is a passing stall test.
that pinch is real bad,but does not effect the stall test.
does the EGR main open and close by hand fully?
the EGR main has valve in side, does it move freely? and not stick?

yes, on new cars, closed loop can happen in 15second from cold start but that is OBD2.
on this car, im nut sure, it needs heated O2 sensor, and the heater must not be open , on 0bd2 car the ECU tells you, heater open but not this car.
so for sure closed loop happens some time from 150F to 180F coolant temp.

air is moving, you mean exhaust is moving right, barking>? by barking i mean the exhaust pulse can be felt. running.
if yes, then the 11mm hole needs to be cleaned. in the TB.
see my slide shows on EGR.

if the EGR is defeated we can still get in to closed loop fast.
and i for one trouble shoot closed loop first.
the EGR activates never at idle and when the TPS idle switch opens (goes high) the EGR is activated, and flows EGR gasses up to near WOT then is cut. off.
on 1996+ car, you must be moving,
tricky , huh?

hey, your doing real good job here. you got the EGR off with out breaking those 6mm screws, use anti-seized compound on them so they NEVER DO.

The idle switch is a very important part.
it must be closed at idle or the IAC (electric) will be dead.
if must open , if not, the EGR will never enable. ever.


seems you are here.
btw2, my car had flat spots it EGR dead. this confuses the injection rates. egr dead. and was the strangest feeling if ever seen in throttle response (full tuneup and all else new stuff)
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html

hole #1 , the mono port EGR injector port
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-horror2.html

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i was hoping all along that hole 1 only is bad, it easy to fix. super easy compared to any pre 1995.5 16v

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hole one is a big time , service, easy but it does get dirty fast.

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at spark plug change is use gum brush here. 9mm the 11mm done.

[cosmic_splatter]

Fixkick,

I used marine grease on those screws. Should I redo them with anti-seize?

Also, I didn't notice the engine doing anything different during the egr tests. No throttle drop, no shake...no nothing. Like it wasn't having an impact. EGR valve worked very well! BTW...PO put one of those boxes on the IAT to fool the sensor to run richer I believe. I feel like I should cut that thing out of the circuit. Here is a photo. For some reason PO also did some splicing on the MAF too. Not sure what was going on there. Maybe the connector went bad in the past.
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/g...35_45.jpeg


I did notice that the computer was now showing a historical code of 45. That speaks to some of the things you were talking about above with idle circuit.

However, I am not currently getting a CEL.

How bad of a job is it to pull the throttle body? Is this a 2 hour project? 15 mins?

thanks,
John

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ps. Here is a pic of the valve. It really wasn't in all that bad of shape. Valve works very smooth. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary.
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/g...41_00.jpeg

I wanted to pull the sensor out and clean it too, but it wouldn't budge with a bit of force and I didn't want to break it.

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Here are the other values provided by Rhinoview...
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/g..._59_49.png

Not sure the Idle circuit measurement is here in the diag data.

[fixkick]

ok marine grease. far better than factory dry, !!!!

the OP is dumb, the 16v mpi car the IAT does near nothing , in fact the 1992 has NO IAT at all.
on a 8v sure it will change fuel time.. open loop only.
the MAF sets all power from the engine and is self temperature compensated, see my schematic of its guts...???
the maf reads true air flow at all times and never lies. the ECU then reads the MAF and injects, per grams per second air flow
if in closes loop , the ECU then corrects the mafs reading %5 high as most do.
that is how it works.
easy huh? and fun./
yes put those hacks buck, they are USELESs, did you know the ECU runs perfect rich conditions WOT, 100% perfect for POWER, not smog, most dont know that.
but does. it runs say 12.5: 1 AFR, the power band.
messing with that only invites, going lean burning valves or too rich wasting fuel for no reasons at all.
the persons selling it are clueless, sharks.

yes, to get code 51s, you need to drive fast, and to coast from fast, say over 45mph, then all EGR test are done, on 1995 they happen faster.
does the ECT ever read 180F? 82c or more>? it must.

nice photos and the egr looks new.... envy.
it can be cleaned for snappy action with finger strokes.\
nice photos thanks and of page to Rhino, never seen it.
great.

all looks ok, but CTS (ECT) its way too low and if it is , new thermostat time or it will suck gas like crazy,

thanks for sharing!!!

[cosmic_splatter]

Thanks for all your help fixkick!

The dash dial is going about 1/2 way up, so I think the engine is heating up normally. Not sure why it says 67c since that's about 153 degrees.

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Here is a shot going 24mph. It appears the ECU is sensing that idle position is open. When I let it go to idle it goes back to closed. I'm starting to think I have a bad 02 sensor preventing it from going into closed loop. See the display to the right in the below photo.

http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/g..._18_48.png

[cosmic_splatter]

UPDATE: Aquanaut20 on the suzuki forum said engine needs to hit 170 to go into closed loop. So, that's a ringer for my issues. It's either a bad thermostat or bad sensor. Also, which thermostat should be run in these vehicles? FSM says 180 degrees was standard, but Beck Arnley's website says that 190 degrees was standard. Not sure which one to purchase. Most of my driving will be in hot weather. I have to also add that without the Rhino software, I would have never known there was an issue. Only that my fuel economy sucked.

[fixkick]

the top hose on rad, gets so hot hand flies off. touched,
150 is cold.
190s saves fuel. and even causes the radiator to expel more heat, (more efficiently) but neds a good cap, and hold pressure and 50% AF mix.
the old thermostat also will be slow, and that wastes fuel .

the ect may be dead on, its about 300 ohms hot.

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/temp-sensors.html