Could really use some help

[gc73]

I have attached a picture of the tag off the ECU

[fixkick]

that is the most common ECU in the USA for.
8v
manual trans. (mt) US means for USA spec, regulated EPA smog rules. (not from Canada, or other countries)
from 1991 to 1995, used.

[fixkick]

drive with the jumper in place, the DLC, jumper called DIAG.
see if it throws codes, driving , the jumper is pure harmless. same on new cars x10 better, and still a valid test.
there are many tests to do, to fix any car for drive-ability symptoms. (poor)
first are basic engine tests.. after all EFI can not run a wrecked engine, it can do ok on a weak engine, but not a wreck by wreck i mean loss of all compression on 1 more cylinders.etc
seems to me its running real rich, and when cold rich added to bad rich give syou what?, way TOO RICH, and misfires more....

if engine is good, and cat not melted.
it's only these caused. (mostly)
1: bad fuel.
2: injector 1/2 clogged. up ,clean it? Bogging it will.
3: low fuel pressure. (will bog) not misfire but BOG ONLY.
4: bad map sensor. (lots of ways to fail, even the hose to it blocked with crap or inline filter to it packed in junk, or hose leaks)
5: BAD SPARK. (CAP/ROTOR/HV WIRE SET/PLUGS, GAPPED TO .028INCHES NEVER AT .045" AS ALL COME NEW IN THE BOX, GAP THEM OR IT WILL MISFIRE HORRIBLY.!!!!
spark timed wrong, did you even check this yet?> using a $20 timing light with the freeze jumper inserted? at 800 RPM hot, can I presume it even holds 800 RPM hot, AC off?
6: ECT DOES NOT READ 300 OHMS HOT. A HOT Engine remove ect wire plug , ohm meter at (DMM) to ECT sensor pins, 300 ohms, (0.3K ohms ) if this is wrong the thermostat is bad, stuck open
we use and IR thermal gun ($20 tool) to see omg that stinking rotten(failsafe), thermostat latched open, gee get rid of it, never use those ever. 180f good. not below, 170 hot
the IR gun reads about 10f deg, lower than what is on the inside of the thermostat housing.(gun pointed there) fully hot engine,
If water is 180f or more and sensor not at 300 ohms the ECT is BAD, No not dead, but bad, its now no longer calibrated and at spec, its BAD. it has 2 pins not 1. 91+

the map readings are on my map page, type map in the search box. we use a voltmeter to read the output, keyon, idle and WOT for 1sec)
http://fixkick.com/

is idle vacuum steady, hot, 19" of HG on the gage (yes $20 gauge)
is the engine misfiring?, do you know how that sounds is is felt, its not a hesitation only, its heard too. and felt, (a short hesitation only is a whole other problem set)
does it misfire under load, up a hill say..... ever heard a chain saw misfire?, that un even 2stroke beat of the exhaust note?
that is misfire. classic, and is major symptoms,if present. in any driving mode hot.
does the engine misfire or only bog going up a hill wide open throttle. held.,
misfire is violent.
bogging is like dragging heavy boat up that hill, or a 2000 pounds dead weight.,
i cant drive your car, so words do not tell me how it drives, words are weak, (not yours any words in any language weak on engine performances...)

ever consider a new O2 sensor,? sorry if did already/
the old 8v loves to go super rich with a bad 02 (this is by design, not accident, this is Bosch's fail safe rules) (the sensor die and ECU goes rich,on purpose , rich is safe, lean bad burns valves)
you can even unplug it to see car run better if the 02 is fibbing (did you?)
the 02 loves to lie if there is any form of exhaust leak near by, like the exh manifold header gasket bad, sucking in fresh 20 % atmospheric, air, between each PUTT.!!!!
yes IT CAN SUCK AIR THERE< for SURE. (ask , we have nice pressure plot to show you)
unplug it. that O2, as a test...

this ECU is Dumb and Dumber, just like the movie... it's brick stupid , in our modern world,there is ZERO "AI" inside. (my jeep has over 200 DTC errors , by comparison. )
the 56b30s series of ECU have great limits, one is the 02 sensor reading wrong allows the ECU to inject way too much fuel, (corrected in USA in 1996) T
This ecu love to burn CAT up, red hot and melts them, it loves to...
the same ECU can get lost. and not post any codes (gee it is stupid so.... cant fix stupid as they say)
the same ECU will never tell you if a sensor reads wrong, only dead sensors are reported, unlike new cars.

let me explain lost.

The ECU does not monitor spark for misfire ever, until 1996
so that means if it does misfire, the ECU does the wrong thing, it adds fuel, ( we used to say leaning in to a left hook, boxing, yes dumb....)
yes this is a stupid act on the ECU part but is REALITY.
the 02 measures oxygen, not fuel! so makes gross errors during those misfired air slugs passing by at each and every misfiring spark plug going down stream now..

The ECU gets lost other ways, too.
if it tries to add fuel and runs out of trim range, it does not report it, like 1996 and newer cars do...so well.
so it slams rich and is happy there, but never us.

that is about it.
tell more about bogging and misfire.
elaborate all that fully,

bogging with misfire is just misfire. All misfires reduce POWER< all do. and wastes tons if fuel doing so.
bogging only is bogging, (means lack of fuel) in most cases no loss of fuel due to you can never go fast enough to burn it. (in your mind imagine a 1/2 clogged injector) and be here.
or fuel pressure not in spec.

Misfiring is violent, is your car misfiring.?
we can start there, really.

[gc73]

What would you define as a misfire? I would say no backfiring at all. It runs very poorly at low rpm's but when they get above 3k it smooths out and runs better.

[fixkick]

sorry ,
I am not talking about backfiring , back to the air clear box. (is it?)
nor the other backfiring, called muffler explosions,

ONLY misfiring.
Misfiring means the spark plug failed to fire and burn the air fuel mixture , each time it happens.
that is mostly bad spark, no spark no boom.

it's heard , an felt. both, and is violent.

this is a gas engine, and spark must be good, compression good, an fuel rates good.
if all that is good misfire does not happen, unless fuel is super rich. then it does too rich misfiring, spark plug tips turn black too, as proof. (and can smell it)
it is very hard to explain misfire to some one that never seen or heard this,before.

ever have a lawn mower, string trimmer, chain saw, or 2 stroke dirt bike misfire, all do with regularity.

makes a sound bam, bam , bam, pifft, pift, bam, bam bam bam, pffit, bam. over and over, that is misfire, each Pfifft is unburned fuel to the CAT and a RED hot CAT, if CAT still alive as most are NOT this old.
then you smell the unburned gas stench, power loss, and huge gas bills, even 15mpg is easy to get , doing this.

Read up on misfire , internal combustion engines.

[fixkick]

TELL MORE.
tell how it drives in all gears, all hills./ flat ground, acceleration, tip in of throttle , bogs? (hot)
what is seen felt, heard ?
Misfire is violent, heard and felt. and seen. (3 ways to know its there)
misfire is black smoke seen at tail pipe. (or red hot stinking(sniff sniff bad CAT, i bet yours is dead cat, no problems there if not melted)
and smells of unburned fuel.
Misfire is mostly bad spark, but not always, that is because any engine that is too rich will misfire, due to spark plug tips turned black in carbon, and carbon , is super conductor to 15,000 volt spark. carbpn shorts the plugs out. (ending spark)

ever look at the plugs, and gap that to .028" see if any are BLACK?, if one is black then you lose, 1/4 your power (actual more)
there are vast symptoms as shop sees test driving any car.
heard, felt and seen. (yes even see the TACHO drop is big clue ) or engine seen to shake at idle, or gear shift handle shakes oddly driver, flat or up hills.
keep in mine the mech must be smarter than the ECU, as it is brick dumb this year.

the engine has 4 cylinders, and only one injector
it fires in 1,3,4,2 order and repeats. it makes a sequential of Putts. in that order, and does not skip cylinders ever, if it does, heard/seen or felt that is what MISFIRE MEANS
it means one or more cylinders was dead at the spark instant, and most times repeats. All gas engines sound smooth and even clean putts, if not it's misfiring.
the is also called bad combustion.
key elements (EFI basics) are:
1: compression must be good 160psi not 80
2: the spark must be strong, timed right and gapped at .028"
3: the fuel mix must not be rich, too rich will cause too rich misfire, and bad combustion. 14.7 :1 is normal AFR if to rich now remove the 02 sensors ,like I showed above.
AFR ,means air fuel ratio,

it takes tools to fix or diagnose any car, made.
lacking ,this, all you can do , my guess is use spark tips reading checks. eyes on tips of plugs. (white/lt gray /tan, black, carbon /antifreeze soaked, broken damage there)

[gc73]

TELL MORE.
tell how it drives in all gears, all hills./ flat ground, acceleration, tip in of throttle , bogs? (hot)

Hot it definitely runs better. Really in all gears and all it runs good as long as RPMs are high. 3k and above. If you take off slow it will run then bog then run then bog and then moving fast enough a rpm’s higher and will take off. Have to drive it like you stole it and really be in it to get down the road. Also pumping the throttle A LOT makes a difference, especially at lower rpms. If you leave your foot where its at or put it all way to floor it will continue to bog. Sounds like it is not firing at all. When you let off it will buck and fire it seems . this is when you really have to pump the throttle to get rpms high.

what is seen felt, heard ?

RPM’s will jump, will buck and fire for a second then sound like not firing at all motor just turning over. If hood open can hear it turning over through the intake.

Misfire is violent, heard and felt. and seen. (3 ways to know its there)
misfire is black smoke seen at tail pipe. (or red hot stinking(sniff sniff bad CAT, i bet yours is dead cat, no problems there if not melted)

Maybe a little black smoke but never a real noticeable amount. Also have never smelled or seen the cat getting super hot.
and smells of unburned fuel.

Defiantly smells gassie driving down the road or at idle.

Misfire is mostly bad spark, but not always, that is because any engine that is too rich will misfire, due to spark plug tips turned black in carbon, and carbon , is super conductor to 15,000 volt spark. carbpn shorts the plugs out. (ending spark)ever look at the plugs, and gap that to .028" see if any are BLACK?, if one is black then you lose, 1/4 your power (actual more)

I have pulled all plugs before and they seem to be fairly normal nice brown ish color.
there are vast symptoms as shop sees test driving any car.

heard, felt and seen. (yes even see the TACHO drop is big clue ) or engine seen to shake at idle, or gear shift handle shakes oddly driver, flat or up hills.

One thing that it typically does is idles very high 1400 give or take a few hundred if it will maintain an idle. If not it will bounce. Rev way up then fall 1600 down to 400 hundred shake and shudder a little then rev way back up and fall. Sometimes will almost die on the dip or will die on the dip.
keep in mine the mech must be smarter than the ECU, as it is brick dumb this year.

the engine has 4 cylinders, and only one injector
it fires in 1,3,4,2 order and repeats. it makes a sequential of Putts. in that order, and does not skip cylinders ever, if it does, heard/seen or felt that is what MISFIRE MEANS
it means one or more cylinders was dead at the spark instant, and most times repeats. All gas engines sound smooth and even clean putts, if not it's misfiring.
the is also called bad combustion.
key elements (EFI basics) are:
1: compression must be good 160psi not 80
2: the spark must be strong, timed right and gapped at .028"
3: the fuel mix must not be rich, too rich will cause too rich misfire, and bad combustion. 14.7 :1 is normal AFR if to rich now remove the 02 sensors ,like I showed above.
AFR ,means air fuel ratio,
I have a fairly good understanding of how an internal combustion engine works and feel that I’m fairly savvy with a wrench. I’ve done quite a bit of fixing on my truck and working on the farm. I wouldn’t consider it an individual cylinder. It either runs well and wants to build rpms and go or it is falling totally on its face. Best way I can describe it

it takes tools to fix or diagnose any car, made.
lacking ,this, all you can do , my guess is use spark tips reading checks. eyes on tips of plugs. (white/lt gray /tan, black, carbon /antifreeze soaked, broken damage there)

I really appreciate all the help with this! Hope I can get it going!

[fixkick]

MY GUESS NOW (blind) is this is BOG only car. not misfiring at all just bogging. (like dragging a huge weight)

is car in USA? if yes harbor-freight has a $20 fuel pressure guage with the suzuki 6mm hose there? that fits all suzuki stock filter banjo fittings. my guess stock filter is gone, and so are the stock banjo's" I cant see your car nor see mods done wrong, or any of that, many parts on this car are super hard to get now...... or very expensive from SUZ

i re-read all your posts.
so the coil wire was hacked. (i see that splice there and is never good to allow that ever)
the injector wires hacked ?
and the ECU replaced right?
back near post 30 ish, you showed fuel pressure ALL WRONG. 18psi is ALL WRONG. as is 20. !!! IF IT IS , ? then this car will bog like HELL.
when did you fix the fuel pressure.?????? I can't find that anywhere. nor how done , exactly....

it takes 2 things to get good pressure, (not counting clogged socks or filters wrong pump or bent pump output side lines and the like.
a good pump that can do 60psi shunt test, (output blocked) at FPR return line, this test in in the suzuki book and on my pump page. Did you do a pump shunt test?
then a working FPR, most this old are dead, and leak. to the return line, so easy to prove. ask./
so if the FPR works you get your 31 to 40 PSI is spec. as sealevel, are you at sealevel
the pressure does not change at wot, like all 16v MPI engines do.
the pressure fuel only change for altitude.
same pressure key on
same pressure, running at any speed.

what is your idle pressure? at idle, and gunned for 1 to 3 seconds WOT.
do you have fuel pressure gauge, does it fit to the filter test port.? as it must,. there is no under hood test point on any 8v. so... deleting the rear one will make diagnoses, impossible.
do not use carb fuel lines or carb clamps only 100PSI rated fuel system parts, are to be uses, EFI rated. or you will get a leak.



here is your system, this is first, as the ECU is wholefully unable to cure bad pressure, nor know its wrong, ever. it must be right.

http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/TBI-map.JPG
when you remove the vacuum line from the FPR,does the nipple there leak fuel, is yes the FPR is bad. (they love to fail 3 ways, that, stuck closed or open)

see where the meter sits.

[fixkick]

i found your post.
the stock filter is gone
the stock banjos rusted out, as ALL do. and are NOW GONE,
and you put in other parts, non stock parts. there, sure.... (suz hoses are $$$$)
that means the pressure test port is now missing on this car
unless you put in the Tee fitting in front of the filter. pump side
like this,, pump>>>>Tee>>>>filter-in, filter,>>>filter out and to TBI body.. . then FPR then to return line.

some wise folks use Tee with Schrader valve (fuel rated) on the TEE port so standard fuel gauge tools all work. as many cars new have.


if you had bought the 20 buck kit from harbor fright(pun), it has that fitting Tee.
seen here (top arrow is TEE fitting)





ps. idle surge is a other issues. might be above and idle speeds we fix last when engine runs correctly. (power full , no misfiring)

if the ECU can not control idle , IT surges the ISC valve( super dangerous today, ask toyota the cost of the error, recalls,etc)

you need to meaure the pressure correctly
or buy a new FPR and pray,
but in the end, if the pump fails the shunt test its no good or wrong pump.

[fixkick]

i cant see what you did, but my guess,
put the TEE fitting, in place of the filter., then the gage attached,

34psi min. (41 is par, at sea level and 34 , up on pikes peak) (the higher the altitude the lower is fuel pressure, or the injector flows to much fuel)
if the pressure is 50 to 60 the FPR is jammed, (bad) or return line blocked,pinched or clogged.
if the pressure is way low(it was) then the FPR is bad(stuck open bad) or the pump is no good.
if the shunt test fails,(with return line pinched) then the pump is NO GOOD. (wrong pump , bad, or its sock clogged, or hose inside near it is cracked and leaking inside tank unseen.
that covers them all i think.