Connecting rods/pistons

[justgoit]

95 tracker 1.6l 16v
-So I had got the motor running and it ended up blowing a rod and the side of the motor out. its was on my first cylinder.. so I have torn it all apart and am going to need a piston and connecting rod. Now I have a 8v lower end with everything in it, I am going to use the shell of it and put my 16v parts in it. Now I am hoping to just buy a piston head and reuse a connecting rod from the 8v donor... I noticed on my 16v connecting rods there is numbers 73 73 74 75 and on the 8v its just 74 74 75 75... not interchangeable rods? what order?

[fixkick]

mixing 8v and 16v engine block parts.
well the block is same
and crank
same rods
same piston pins
totally different pistons, and rings.
diff. cog belt drive
the rods do not come in sizes. (on one engine)
all bearing shells are sized to fit, no bearings, rod or mains are unique to the 8v or 16v only SIZE. and fit.

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those number? my guess are casting marks? 73-75, there are codes, to tell , dates, or which plant made it ? not sure, but its not size.

[justgoit]

So everything will be good to go to put a connecting rod from the 8v on a 16v piston? I thought a 16v crank was different, counterweighted or something. what does sized to fit mean?

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don't get that sized to fit sentence

[fixkick]

the suzuki partnumbers are IDENTICAL. (block , rod and crank) same. need the pages , have them all.
cant get more same than that.
no the block is the same, and crank the rod too, has the same part numbers, 8v and 16v. I'm sure the pistons are all the same gram weight, so.. that magic allows the cranks to be same. see? why? and so is rods and same weight. (saves suzuki a fortune doing just that)
in a race shop we'd grind every rod and piston, to make all exactly same weight, rods same, pistons match. or more.... (custom balanced cranks) etc.....

sized to fit.sure, as are all engines made. (you can not just buy pieces and bolt any engine together.)
the bearing come in over 10 factory sizes. (clearances new)
my overhauled engine page covers this.

shell of it? (means block?)

you blew the 16v
and want to use the 8v? block, (called shell?)
the problem is fitting 16v pistons onto a 8v block assembly.
the bores will not match exactly.
there are bore grades just in STD sizes. alone. 2 sizes STD grade. (1 and 2)

on the top deck of both blocks are stamps. (embossed by humans)
1221, (or 2121, or 1112 ,etc)
this means 1221, #1 is size 1, and #2 bore is size 2 hole. and so on, try to match that and not put a #2 in a #1 hole.
also some engines have over sizes new pistons, a real show stopper that. (mixing parts)


short story.

in the factory, the crank shaft and block bores are ground in parallel, (called GANG bored or ground)
(fast ! but crude and cheap, compared to our machine shop here in town)

when the parts come of that line, they are measured and graded , with color codes and stamps.
see those 1221, stamps on top of top deck? that is piston variance.
see the same like marks, on the crank throw face (stamps). telling the man assembling engine, which of 10 bearing sells fit. SEE?

so what do we do , just mixing parts up kinda willy nilly?
well, do not mix parts. unless we must.
do at least use "Pastigage" on all bearings to see if the clearances are right, that is, why the rod threw, clearances were not right but too loose.,i bet.
(assuming not loss of oil pump or oil that looks like milk chocolate?)
you never said how the front #1 piston did, when the rod went. is it ok?
many times the rod wrecks the piston with rod..
so if true, you need a correct piston, and 8v is not it.


murphy law says the one step you skip, will be the first failing link.

[justgoit]

okay correct my 16v blew and I'm using just the shell of the 8v. The 16v is 2221 and the 8v is 2111. I know the pistons aren't the same.. I am ordering a new one. My question was if I can use the connecting rod from the size 2 off the 8v which was also first cylinder as my connecting rod for my new size 2 16v piston in the 8v shell. I am using just the 8v shell. I am going to use the 16v crank, 16v pistons and rods, the 16v rod caps. should I use the 16v crank caps in the 8v shell or put the 8v crank caps on the 16v crank. or should I just use the 8v crank and put the 16v stuff on it. and where are these bearings you are talking about?? where are they? how do I gauge them

[fixkick]

never mix rod caps. or main caps..... they are all machined as one piece. do not even rotate any caps. (mark all parts, so that they are not rotated wrong
the rods also have a front and back side. this is already marked. on the caps. (and a special oil squirt-er)

put the 16v pistons on the 8v rods,
the engine blocks (shells?) are the same , but not the pistons. nor mix the front cog for cam belt drive. 8 to 16v.

DAY 1 (means what happened, the day engine was built)
the rods are bored, with caps in place, so. that means , not to mix caps, nor rotate them. (worse yet is the forward marks, must not be scrambled)
Block mains are LINE bored at once. and must not be upset or caps mixed in any ways... or rotated. do not mix caps from any cylinder, ever.
the main bearing shells. can not be mixed up , willy nilly, they are color coded in 10 grades. (not trivial at all this fit up)
engine blocks are not shells, bearing shells, are.... (the terms matter)

the pistons have a front arrow. (the pistons have a thrust side unless piston slap is fun to hear, LOL !)
http://www.fixkick.com/engine/Piston-rod/Pist-top.JPG
the piston tops have a 1 or 2 on top (or if not stock, other marks, very important)
the #1 marked piston are the smallest. 2 is bigger.
the rods (see #5 in link) have and oil squirt'er hole, that must point to the intake side of block (shell?)

http://www.fixkick.com/engine/97-motor-p...m-end.html


one other very serious issues. that is called ring swept areas
id bet the 8v and 16v pistons do not sweep the same areas. so
so that means the top rings will then hit the upper cylinder ridge from the old 8v piston and cause those old rings to very bad real fast.
you need to hone this engine and uses new rings.
(assumes the micrometer readings pass per the fsm pages)

read chapter 6a yet>? (16v only)
http://www.fixkick.com/engine/97-motor-p...m-end.html
see page 41, 'important"---------pg 43 piston codes. see the ring direction marks....page 44.

i have no idea at all what wear is on those cylinders.
nor the original factory measurements. (we only get the range, stated, not real)

now lets say 2 things, the engine has no wear (ive not seen it nor used my Micrometers on it....
and say on day 1,(factory line) the cylinder wall measured, 2.9528" so the man stamped the wall as #2 hole, per page 44
lets pretend its a 1 cylinder engine, to save 3 more long steps.
so the factory man , grabs a #1 piston by mistake (or you)
then puts that #1 stamped piston in that #2 hole, (omg its tight) how tight, its .0004" clearance. (as tight as...) there is .0003" variance on new #2 pistons
that wont FLY.
that table figure 96 does not lie.
this is why a machinist uses his MIKES. to see what you have and to get a "picture"of what happened day1, (low mileage engines)

then the bearings, 10x more hard. due to lots of sub sizes.... cant just mix parts. they must be fitted correctly.

here is the piston wall math.
#2 wall minimum 2.9528
#1 piston max.. 2.9524
------------------------------- (minus
0.0004" clearance, (ILLEGAL interference fit.....!)

page 64
the correct spec range piston to wall is
.0008 to 0.00015"

such is the realities of 1990's , gang boring cylinders (crude and must be hand fitted with graded parts) the same with all journals.
the above, is what can happen. (ive not done the MIKE sessions yet)
what will happen is only pure luck, lacking those tools.

one of the most complex topics on earth, building and engine...

#2 pistons and walls are the smaller grades.
putting in #1s pistons to #2 bores, is asking for trouble. IMO
the piston top mark 61G00 is the suz, pn. for standard size grade 2. (there are 4 sizes total) if boring engine, aftermarket pistons have many larger sizes but no sub grades, that is because we can bore the cylinders to .0001" accuracy, something suzuki can't do.... or loth to do...

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better is to mike the walls,of the cylinders in block.
find the tight point (bottom region will be that on any used engine)
then mike the piston (widest point) (pistons are cam ground, and are not round, cold) so.. measure wide points like the FSM shows.
.0008" is the most tight allowed, there is no other ways.. unless boring the engine cylinders.

[fixkick]

that swept area issues, is serious. issue. (as serious as piston 1 to hole 2 (large to small)
16v old pistons, in to any old 8v block
that top ring on that 16v piston, may hang up on the upper ridge of any well worn 8v block (25 years of wear? ) if well worn the piston size mismatch may go away but not this)

see this view

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/...0623b4.gif

if the added an alien piston 16v to 8v is that, and the #1 ring is higher now... check that yet?
then it hits this point (ridge) then the ring shatters.
bam a wrecked block.

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in school before pushing pistons , out the top (crank still in block)
we ridge ream it first.