Car chockes and Loose power on uphill

[SrgBog]

Strange issue with my car and I don't know where to look...

Well , the first symptom was that I needed to crank the car a few seconds more. (usually it was start in a second).

After that I made some project of corrosion cleaning under the battery - so the car was without a battery for about 12 hours. Also at those 12 hours I changed a gear oil and when I filled the gear oil it spilled on the spark distributor and all whats under it. (I telling this because maybe one of this parts of the story can help to identify the problem).

Also after I finished to work on my car I still needed to move the car but the paint under the battery place still needed to dry - so I started the engine by connecting the battery ( + ) and ( - ) via cables to the ( + ) and ( - ) of the car. And after I started the car I removed the cables - and drove the car few minutes without the battery...

After short time of driving my car started to choke... And the engine stalled as I arrived to the parking...
The next day I connected the battery and the engine started after a bit of cranking. But when I started to drive the car , it started to bounce (choke) again only at the accelerating point from zero speed.

I own that car less than a year and it always had a white smoke comes out of tail pipe as I start the engine after (at least) few hours. Also that smoke have burned plastic smell.

I changed the spark plugs (although sparks was pretty new) and it fixed the bouncing (choking) issue at the start of the drive (and accelerating from zero).
BUT...
1. The car STILL needs a longer cranking even if the engine is still hot
2. When I drive uphill the car may suddenly loose power "drastically" and when I press the gas pedal it makes the car drive even slower.

(I recently cleaned the EGR, changed spark plugs, changed air filter and tried a new spark cables - nothing helps (..car shows code 12))

can it be the alternator / spark distributor / or some sensor ... ???

Please help to find the problem.

Thanks ahead.

[fixkick]

welcome back, ill replay in line in color.

Strange issue with my car and I don't know where to look...

Well , the first symptom was that I needed to crank the car a few seconds more. (usually it was start in a second).
hard starts but cranks fast right?
After that I made some project of corrosion cleaning under the battery - so the car was without a battery for about 12 hours. Also at those 12 hours I changed a gear oil and when I filled the gear oil it spilled on the spark distributor and all whats under it. (I telling this because maybe one of this parts of the story can help to identify the problem). its 4speed out no oil to land on clutch, disc, so no harm no foul, but the distrib cap , oh boy.


Also after I finished to work on my car I still needed to move the car but the paint under the battery place still needed to dry - so I started the engine by connecting the battery ( + ) and ( - ) via cables to the ( + ) and ( - ) of the car. And after I started the car I removed the cables - and drove the car few minutes without the battery...
Sorry,Never ever do that, its ok back in 1960 with generators, do this with any alternator is asking to blow up all electronic in the car.
all of it. The regulator inside the ALT can go nuts and go over 20vdc, and 16 is the limit... so...... ouch, why do that?

After short time of driving my car started to choke... And the engine stalled as I arrived to the parking...
The next day I connected the battery and the engine started after a bit of cranking. But when I started to drive the car , it started to bounce (choke) again only at the accelerating point from zero speed.

I changed the spark plugs (although sparks was pretty new) and it fixed the bouncing (choking) issue at the start of the drive (and accelerating from zero).
BUT...
1. The car STILL needs a longer cranking even if the engine is still hot
2. When I drive uphill the car may suddenly loose power "drastically" and when I press the gas pedal it makes the car drive even slower.

(I recently cleaned the EGR, changed spark plugs, changed air filter and tried a new spark cables - nothing helps (..car shows code 12))
ouch no OBD2 system.
can it be the alternator / spark distributor / or some sensor ... ???

Please help to find the problem.

Thanks ahead.

I have no clues here,
chocking is engine power loss.
so do the spark tips turn black.?
oil get in side distrubutor or under side of cap, the inside.
that battery pull trick can be , nothing bad, happens , all things messed up. if you saw headlamps , any lamps flare, bam damage
asking the old ALT regulator to protect this illegal mode, is asking a lot.
The reg, shuts down for overheated, overcurrent and over voltage. some times not. toss coin.
all modern car books tell you never do that.
in the olden days,battery toasted, out it came , cables insulated say in rolled up newspaper, and we coast it down hill dump the clutch and it runs.
very bad this activity now.
too much to lose. cars today are chock-a-block full of electronics so we never go over 16v or risk that even under any conditions, including boost chargers from H3LL.
on newer cars the 3 phase diodes are zeners, that fire at 16+ volts, this old car has no such backup. if the reg fails.
the reg is your only protection, for overvoltage, and can fail.

is engine misfiring, or black smoke, or shaking or CAT red hot.
or smells funny , smell raw fuel.
spark tips, they tell alot.
cheers!

PS, drive with the diagnostic connector jumpered with 12s, drive and see if 12s mutate to xx?
its a safe test, no harm.

[SrgBog]

Thanks Mr. Fixkick - I will continue to check the issue and update

[SrgBog]

Well I cleaned the spark disterbutor lid - there was a white stuff like stone dust on the spark contacts ... It helped - the engine starts better/faster.
BUT it not helped the main problem - after 5 minutes driving up hill the car loosing power drastically and when I press the gas pedal it drives even slower...

My A/T gear not in so good condition - can it be the isue ?
maybe the gear send signal to the engine to stop ??

[fixkick]

that is all normal that white dust, its from the plasma arcing from the rotor tip , via that gap to the cap tower pins, all 100% normal.
what matters is cap cracks, oil inside, or carbon tracking. Just clean it in soap ans water, dry it and it will be ok. or use carb cleaner inside, this plastic is fuel safe.
4 speed, shifts, 1, 2,3,4, does it shift right?
if the rpm flares that is trans slip, and has nothing to do with engine.
if the rpm does not flare, and power is low, the that is engine power weak.
no the tCM can never tell the PCM to stop any engine. The TCM only auto shifts the box, that is all it does.
if the engine shakes that is misfire, ever try new spark plugs or full tuneup ever? cap, rotor wires, will cure misfire, in almost every case and 10x that if tuneups are skipped, and for sure the 60k mile service points did you skip that? no car runs forever , not tuned up, (spark parts and filters)
if the engine bogs, this is not misfire, misfire is violent, bogging is smooth loss of power, and is fuel mixture related. fuel pressure tops list there.
did you look at spark tips they talk to all mechanics, you look and see if the tips look bad, if yes, they are bad or engine fueling is rich and turns black.
they talk, all it takes is looking at them. removed.

the A/t can fail in many ways. lets talk that..
1": fails to shift up 1,2,3,4 or down, 4,3,2,1 per normal
if it dont shift right, then it glows the CEL lamp and you scan the PCM and get P07xx errors, telling you , I CANT SHIFT right and WHY. all new cars do this too. its not new any of this.
The trans can slip, this is called FLARE, flare means you hear the engine scream (rpm goes nuts) and car can not accelerate , after all slip, does that, like the chain falling of you bicycle, you can go. and pedals fly fast and no go. called drive line slip, this is in the the 4speed, it has clutch packs that can slip.
If it dont up shirt that is TCM , and trans issues, scan it.
if the trans fails to down shift on hills, at it must, then that is TCM trans issues. (or bad TV cable , rusted up or fell off)
so far i have not a clue here if the trans fails, or then engine is week.
the RPM and MPH gauge in 5min work tells you what is going on. the 4wd car has a RPM gauge, all do. with 4wd, use, it.
ever rode a 10speed bike, and had to shift gears/? this teaches you how a transmission works, you must down shift to go up hills,
but normally the 10speed can not ever slip, it is chain drive, and no clutches, but if it had a clutch it too could FLARE, RPM of feet rich way fast and bike slows down.. failure.
this is how all machines move, gears and clutches. in theory its all very simple, watch a transmission model on you tube. see how they work.
Does the engine lack power in all 4 gears,(sure will on higher gears if power is weak)
does it? does it flare.
does it misfire
does it only bog. like pulling dead weight,
a mechanic sees all this in 5 minutes work at a test drive ,somethings I can not experience here. ever.

Try to now the difference from
Transmission gears dont shift right.
and Transmission FLare.
and engine bogging
or engine misfiring
this is required in all cases, to work the correct parts of the drive-line.
also the CEL lamp if it glows running the car must be scanned. (i bet your car is NOT OBD2 car ,like ours) and is OBD1, and you can only do flash codes from the CEL LAMP.
The only scan tools that work in OBD1 (over the counter) is the TECH1 scan tool.
Is the CEL glowing key (it must) and goes out running? and is the OD lamp flashing (means TCM is not happy and most be scanned now)
The PCM will report errors is scanned or diagnostic jumper inserted, (ours work with OBd2 all do , we invented it)
the TCM has its own port, and own jumper and flash codes. (ours works different in USA our TCM reports through the PCM and can be all scanned as one)
the TCM has its own connector and jumper and has flash codes that flash the OD lamp. this is outside usa only this method.

The TCM will report all errors from any of its sensors.
it can also report failures to upshift, after all it does the up shift command to the trans solenoids and if RPM of the tail shift(VSS2) does not drop then the shift did not happen
if the shift happened but the clutch pack slips, the TCM sees that and tells you , it did that.
in the USA only the TCM sendes P0700 codes to the OBD2 scan tool. this tells our mech, the TCM has errors , and the CEL Glows, and OD lamp glows, warning driver TCM errors.
outside USA< the TCM, can only flash the OD lamp. and with flash codes on demand.

This is how it works and is 2 different systems USA and exports.

try to listen an feel transmission shifts. up and down.
learn to count them. 1,2,3,4 and od.
this same on all modern cars, only more gears now.
on hill the TCM sees to events for that hill, actually 3.
1: aggressive TV cable movements, (throttle valve cable)
2: the TPS throttle angles tells same info as above, and is redundant but the TCM can use it to shift.
3: the ECU (PCM) has thing called load, the PCM computes LOAD at all times, a hill is a big load, the PCM tells the TCM hey buddy, big load, and the trans TCM down shifts one gear.
this is how it all works.
learning all this allows you to know instantly what is up, and wrong,
as does flare. flare is trans slip and the tachometer goes real high real fast but not SPEED, that is slip.
if it slips that is all bad bad news.
now lets talk limphome, mode, the ECU has it and so does the TCM
the ECU tells you , this with the CEL glowing and ENGINE sensors failures reported.
the TCM can go to limphome and now skips 2nd gear, this tell you , you are in transmission limphome mode as does the OD flashing same deal.
now you have lots of fact on driveline issues

but first is :
is it engine?
or is a the trans... as in all cars made. the same deal and test drive is the cure.,
as is watching the CEL and OD lamp for odd actions.

[SrgBog]

Thank you very much for your detailed reply.

The engine only bogs when I drive uphill for about 3-5 minutes. If I stop the car on uphill it still ideling fine. if I continue driving - its bogs again. But I stop the car for 1-2 minutes - it runs better...
The gear shift all gears up and down.
I start to think that mabe the exhaust is clogged... tomorrow I want to take it apart and check it.

Will update...

[SrgBog]

UPDATE: Today I saw some video that gave me the idea to replace my FUEL FILTER...
Well I changed the fuel filter and went to ride the uphill where the car was start to choke...
AND MEANTIME THE CAR IS RIDING OK

So far so good !!

ridiculously easy

[SrgBog]

UPDATE#2:
After couple of days that I thought that the problem solved - it returns back.
I got a decision to change the fuel pump...
The issue was that the fuel dump somehow dismounted from its place in the fuel tank and it did not let it to work correctly.
I replaced it anyway - and now all works fine!

[fixkick]

this is true.
i have this portable fuel gauge, 100% electric
i connect it and drive car,
up hill if the pressure drops, on 16v, FPR bad. (let me explain, 16v, up hill vacuum falls very low, the FPR actually raises fuel pressure now. )
In fact it raises pressure to near key on, no start pressure, see my FPR page for the real chart on this.
on 8v,16v filter packed. (its a 60k service point, so should be good on serviced cars)
on 8v/16, above ok, the pump is bad, no pump lasts engine life. 300k +
the pump has many failure modes, even rusted through PUMP rack.
pump has a motor that one commutator segment is dead, super common this. now weak pump.
pump impeller damaged, pump bearings shot. or ? other physical damage , on any turning object.
hoses here, leak.
low 12vdc at pump can be pump not sucking 4amps but 12 or more, its bad.
pump sock filter packed, or rust back up in pump.
it is super nice to have a electric fuel pressure gauge, Id like to have a bluetooth one, not that be , SUPER COOL.

UPDATE#2:
After couple of days that I thought that the problem solved - it returns back.
I got a decision to change the fuel pump...
The issue was that the fuel dump somehow dismounted from its place in the fuel tank and it did not let it to work correctly.
I replaced it anyway - and now all works fine!

[fixkick]

here is the chart,
if i drove car, and found out it was bogging and not misfiring (both have very low engine power up hills)
id use this chart.

16v only, not for TBI car at all

its crude drawing, but is marked up for USA gauges using antique, imperial measurments, HG.
and the rest of world using BAR or its sister KPa.

up a hill the vacuum land in the bottom left corner here. (or near 1 atmosphere, ) the pump has to work harder here , hint hint.
near WOT, vacuum is near 0, but atmospheric pressure is near MAX , about 14psi pressure, at this pressure the FPR adds (matching air pressure) fuel pressure the same amount,
this magic makes the injector flow same amount at any engine load or any altitude, (unlike any carb made it does ths magic)