'97 Sport throttle

[magician35]

My "new" '97 Sport is a real beauty with 101k. Interior shows no signs of wear, exterior has a little bit of hanger rash. Came with new tires, battery, brakes.

I'm looking at some issues, the first of which is the throttle.

#1, after sitting over night (at 50 - 60 degrees air temp) it takes quite a bit of force to press the pedal past some obstruction. Once it "snaps" past the problem, it's fine all day. I've eliminated the pedal mechanism and the cables. I looked at the butterfly and don't see any gunk making it stick. I've lubed the cam with lithium grease and sprayed the external spring and shaft with WD-40.

I don't know if they're related, but #2 is a hesitation in throttle response. It seems to mostly happen when I decelerate to a stop or near stop, then immediately get back on the throttle. If I stop for a full second or so then go, it usually doesn't hesitate.

It also is slow to respond to load at idle. When the A/C cycles or it is shifted into gear from neutral or park, the idle first drops to a rough idle then recovers in a second or so most of the time. Sometimes it will stay down longer.

Since I don't know what's been done to the engine, I'm going to replace the upstream O2 sensor and clean the EGR so I know where they stand. The stat is good with IR gun reading 170 - 180 on the housing.

[fixkick]

1.8L Suzuki sport, DOHC 1.8L !?

My "new" '97 Sport is a real beauty with 101k. Interior shows no signs of wear, exterior has a little bit of hanger rash. Came with new tires, battery, brakes.
Im jealous. what a great discovery...

I'm looking at some issues, the first of which is the throttle.

#1, after sitting over night (at 50 - 60 degrees air temp) it takes quite a bit of force to press the pedal past some obstruction. Once it "snaps" past the problem, it's fine all day. I've eliminated the pedal mechanism and the cables. I looked at the butterfly and don't see any gunk making it stick. I've lubed the cam with lithium grease and sprayed the external spring and shaft with WD-40.
first off this is a dangerous condition any form of throttle sticking.
there are up to 3 cable on the throttle, but not 4speed, or 5speed, only 2. only 2 cables with 2nd being optional cruise box cable.
so disconnect the cables to TB(throttle body., if the throttle still sticks, its in the Throttle body. and can only be 2 things.
1: the butterfly plate is gunked up from the PCV filth cloud .
2: TPS broken or someone removed it and id not align the index pins inside. and that sure would cause your 2nd symptoms below.

calibrating the TPS is easy with any voltmeter, (gone is the silly idle switch)


I don't know if they're related, but #2 is a hesitation in throttle response. It seems to mostly happen when I decelerate to a stop or near stop, then immediately get back on the throttle. If I stop for a full second or so then go, it usually doesn't hesitate.

It also is slow to respond to load at idle. When the A/C cycles or it is shifted into gear from neutral or park, the idle first drops to a rough idle then recovers in a second or so most of the time. Sometimes it will stay down longer.
ISC is dead. (this can be caused if the TPS is not calibrated. or ISC is dirty.
if the ISC is clean, and the ECU cant regulate idle, that means, the idle TPS voltage is to high, TPS cal done wrong or not indexed
when you drop the throttle the TPS must read 0.5v
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/TPS...ml#1.8_cal

make sure the butterfly plate is fully closed, at it stop. never, attempt to change the screw stop , it's a factory setting
step2 connect voltmeter to TP pin and ground, fiddle (check inside index pins first, these off, can stop fly from landing on stops) fiddle TPS casing, until
0.5v is attained, if this happens the ECU then activates idle controls (ISC wakes up)
that is it.


Since I don't know what's been done to the engine, I'm going to replace the upstream O2 sensor and clean the EGR so I know where they stand. The stat is good with IR gun reading 170 - 180 on the housing.

yes, upstream , id replace it just to get best MPG, a fast swinging 02 ,does that.


i do think your TPS has issues.
good luck to you , and your lucky find.
cheers

[magician35]

1.8L Suzuki sport, DOHC 1.8L !?

My "new" '97 Sport is a real beauty with 101k. Interior shows no signs of wear, exterior has a little bit of hanger rash. Came with new tires, battery, brakes.
Im jealous. what a great discovery...

I'm looking at some issues, the first of which is the throttle.

#1, after sitting over night (at 50 - 60 degrees air temp) it takes quite a bit of force to press the pedal past some obstruction. Once it "snaps" past the problem, it's fine all day. I've eliminated the pedal mechanism and the cables. I looked at the butterfly and don't see any gunk making it stick. I've lubed the cam with lithium grease and sprayed the external spring and shaft with WD-40.
first off this is a dangerous condition any form of throttle sticking.
there are up to 3 cable on the throttle, but not 4speed, or 5speed, only 2. only 2 cables with 2nd being optional cruise box cable.
so disconnect the cables to TB(throttle body., if the throttle still sticks, its in the Throttle body. and can only be 2 things.
1: the butterfly plate is gunked up from the PCV filth cloud .
2: TPS broken or someone removed it and id not align the index pins inside. and that sure would cause your 2nd symptoms below.

calibrating the TPS is easy with any voltmeter, (gone is the silly idle switch)





I don't know if they're related, but #2 is a hesitation in throttle response. It seems to mostly happen when I decelerate to a stop or near stop, then immediately get back on the throttle. If I stop for a full second or so then go, it usually doesn't hesitate.

It also is slow to respond to load at idle. When the A/C cycles or it is shifted into gear from neutral or park, the idle first drops to a rough idle then recovers in a second or so most of the time. Sometimes it will stay down longer.
ISC is dead. (this can be caused if the TPS is not calibrated. or ISC is dirty.
if the ISC is clean, and the ECU cant regulate idle, that means, the idle TPS voltage is to high, TPS cal done wrong or not indexed
when you drop the throttle the TPS must read 0.5v
TPS cal

make sure the butterfly plate is fully closed, at it stop. never, attempt to change the screw stop , it's a factory setting
step2 connect voltmeter to TP pin and ground, fiddle (check inside index pins first, these off, can stop fly from landing on stops) fiddle TPS casing, until
0.5v is attained, if this happens the ECU then activates idle controls (ISC wakes up)
that is it.


Since I don't know what's been done to the engine, I'm going to replace the upstream O2 sensor and clean the EGR so I know where they stand. The stat is good with IR gun reading 170 - 180 on the housing.

yes, upstream , id replace it just to get best MPG, a fast swinging 02 ,does that.


i do think your TPS has issues.
good luck to you , and your lucky find.
cheers

Thanks. Yes, it is DOHC automatic Sport JLX w/abs and the works. There are 2 throttle cables. I assume the 2nd is the cruise control. I'll look at all of those and am sure I'll have questions. Are there any particular precautions on disassembling the Throttle Body for cleaning or checking the alignment of the TPS?

---

[fixkick]

yes, make sure both cables are set tad slack, per fsm, or bad idle will happen
and the 0.5v rule.
make sure the TB TV valve. drops to zero clearance at the stop screw each time. the screw is factory set. its set for 99.9% closed, so it cant jam ever. The ISC and bleed set hot idle.

[magician35]

One problem solved. Sprayed butterfly area with cleaner and sticky throttle went away in 2 days.

Maybe another success. Unplugged and reconnected TPS. Slow idle response to load seems to have gotten better or gone away.
Didn't see any corrosion in connector. Installed new up stream O2 sensor at same time.

Where do I pick up a tach signal to check idle speed?

yes, make sure both cables are set tad slack, per fsm, or bad idle will happen
and the 0.5v rule.
make sure the TB TV valve. drops to zero clearance at the stop screw each time. the screw is factory set. its set for 99.9% closed, so it cant jam ever. The ISC and bleed set hot idle.

[fixkick]

great, that is just the PCV cloud smacking the EGR cloud , in the plenum , making its normal nasty mess... im so glad not something evil. like ice damage., hush.........
when you turn on Head lights and heat fan at same time fast (hot engine) RPM might sag for a second. 800 to 700? then snap back fast, this is normal ISC actions.
if the iSC sticks , no action. that is , no speed regulation.
it too, will succumb to the EGR cloud of death every 50k miles.

the below , both parts are diff on 1.8L yours are electric but they too can gum up.
over night flushes , can help. fill, watch foot ball,, fill, , repeat (find a way to get sticky parts submerged....)

---

tacho
on 97.
only the ECU knows rpm, it has cmp and cam sensors.
and i think it feeds the optional tacho, via a brown white wire.

this wire starts at the eCU conn C172 pin 2, if same color. cluster conn G08 pin 8 same color.

[magician35]

Plenty of fun and games ahead. Whatever happened to the days when a spark plug cleaner and a shot of Berrymans took care of 90% of stumbling engine problems and tach signals came right off the distributor primary? And why don't we have timing control on the steering column and a mixture knob under the dash anymore? Progress?

Thanks for the input.

[fixkick]

my 2 fav's. the mix. and trimming lever.
but be glad you dont have a throttle by wire car... no joy there, when it goes bad.