95 tracker miss after warm up

[fixkick]

sorry yes... it idles perfect.. at 5* btdc just as it should.
then you can start to rev it up and it will run fine then suddenly intermittently start missing.
or maybe stumbling  would be a better term because the timing is moving not missing.
and when you start to rev it, that's when it will go from a  normal advanced state (watching with a timing light on #1 plug wire) at around
20 ish degrees  to the left of the timing marks on the cover to approximately 3* atdc. just to the right of the timing marks on the cover.
and it will do this very intermittently. it will go back to the previous btdc timing with no lag between so either the 20ish degrees or the 3*atdc.
I hope i am explaining this better this time

cmp is bad or the wires to it are bad.
cmp not bad and the cogs are bad, crank snout is #1 on this car, well known for failing all the time.

[1995 toad]

checked the key way... all good

[1995 toad]

well I got to drive it twice and then it started doing the same thing...i had cleaned what i thought was oil out of the dizy or cmp with electrical cleaner...
doesn't a hall effect sensor either work or not or should i try replacing it.

[fixkick]

well I got to drive it twice and then it started doing the same thing...i had cleaned what i thought was oil out of the dizzy or cmp with electrical cleaner...
oil free cleaner?
doesn't a hall effect sensor either work or not or should i try replacing it. (not sold in stores, ive seen ever.)

halls failures are very rare. but....

misfiring?

1: bad engine 150psi is low but not bad. compression.

2: bad spark. ( bad carbon core wires, bad coil, bad igniter(ICM),bad distributor or its CMP hall is bad, nobody sells halls for 16valves){bad ECU}

3: way too rich fuel mixture. (as in spark plug tips turn black , rich signs that) (vast causes, limphome tops list of cause)

wrong distributor in car, there are 3 , (one for 8valve "skip that)) and 2 for 16,  the top shaft diameter is not the nor is the rotor that fits there.
~58B10 and ~58B11 are both 16v,  
see this GEM. (photo below)-
do not mix parts
58b10 and 58B11 (16valve variants
distrib. prefixes are all the same for distrib
only suffix is different
56B00 is 8valve.  

many  sellers show the wrong distributor photo in ads/  one at rockauto, states 3 pin then shows 4pin distrib,  and is 8v photo, lists as 58b00 fit.
best is keep an open mind and not assume.  or things get skipped.  if really is misfiring and sparks are not black tipped jump on spark.

that dynamic timing jumping, about may be just the ECU reaction to "IT" seeing that gross spark lost on the tachometer brown wire. "a ECU strategy not documented":
you did drive the car , right? with the DTC jumper wire for diagnostics planted, and drive it and see code 12 , 12,,,12,,,12, the  41/42 pops ?,  or any non code 12.
you can drive fall day like that and may see the 12s fail. or even stops flashing on ECU with bad caps.

cheers..... to you and all yours.

distrib horror 1.  DO NOT MIX PARTS !
 

[fixkick]

do not mix rotors
with the 2 types of 58bxx distribs.
that warning above (photo) is from master rebuilder, CARDONE
nor use china cloned rotors that did fit correctly, or fin on distrib shaft 3 ways.

we see folks doing that, the 3 way rotor horror then install the distributor (planted),with wrong rotor and timing it wrong (2 wrongs do not make a right here)
doing this wrong sets the CMP timing dead to nuts wrong.!!!!

[1995 toad]

at about 12 115 hundred rpm the timing goes from about 20 degrees advanced to about 3 degrees after top dead center with no lag between. Im wondering if its the dizzy or the ecm... the electrical parts cleaner was oil free and dried it out...

[1995 toad]

did not drive it with the jumper in.. would one be able to see the code with how slow it cycles ... the timing change happens quickly and returns just as quickly.

[fixkick]

did not drive it with the jumper in.. would one be able to see the code with how slow it cycles ... the timing change happens quickly and returns just as quickly.

the timing is complex.. for sure different parked and not driving ,per that complex 3D timing chart I posted previously
under load the timing is less aggressive, do to the fuel burning faster under load, less advance is needed.
there are only 3 causes.  (in the crude basics ASE training)

1. bad engine. (like worn d down cam lobes  or sticking head valve, cracked head leaking coolant deep inside. or cam timed wrong.)
   
2. bad spark (end to end) and that includes ECU. ECU on this CAR times all spark and also generates it. ECU to the ignitor to coil to wires to plugs.
   
3. bad fueling too rich will make spark tips foul and misfire. (even leaking injectors or sticking)
   

the odd timing, we do not know if that is the cause or is just a RESULT of the real cause.

there is no scan tools sold in USA that can scan any OBD1, suzuki engine ecu.1989 to 1995 (96 up is OBD2 and tools are everywhere for those)

like I said before, one poor guy here replaced vast parts on the system and later found the tune job put in bad spark wire, those crap carbon core wire sets for $15
that is why assuming fails. (I changed that already , excuse)

learn this about this ECU and why I asked for code 12s driving
the ecu will see code 41 or 42 and if cures fast it eases ALL evidence of that error in seconds even in 10 seconds.
what does that mean , it means it can happen and you missed the fact that it did.
they cured this bad actor, in OBD2,  P03xx codes stored for 2 driving cycle, and we get to see it. back home parked and looking.

OBD1 is not  great system at all,  useful  sometime but not very good.
for example the 1996 car tells you which which cylinder is misfiring , just one or all.  and if the PO335 distrib code is tripping stored in memory.

testing old cars in a shop, the shop uses a scope on the spark wire see why the spare fails. (called plasma resistance)
sees spark die on all cylinders is , bad spark coil or CMP or ignitor  or the wire to coil is bad those crappy carbon wired bad?
spark fails dead on only one wire but the cap top"there", a bad wire on this plug.
spark does not fail but plasma is super high , means bad spark plug or no fuel in the cylinder to burn. (injector bad?)

if one has no powerful shop tools like that we can only guess, (after engine test pass)

• By guessing  and starting cheap to more expensive parts, a new spark coil, new mag wires, new or rebuilt distrib. try to get spark stronger....
  

omg one guy had  bad tachometer or cruise box (option) it shorted the brown tacho wire, randomly and we all know that cuts fuel every time that happens
he found that horror by removing the Tachometer , speedo cluster, cable plug to the cluster then that is not it a and found the unused but connected cruse box
shorting the brown wire, due to capacitors bad deep inside it,. in the cruise box.

he kept miss seeing, the DTC error 41,  but finally saw that for 1 second error driving, 12,12,12,41,12,12,12,   that is was his only clue to this horror.
OBD1 , sucks not have OBD2 pending codes, feature set.! for sure.

cars this old we expect anything to fail and do....
code 42 for 1 second is a bad CMP or (primary side) wires to Distributor a wreck , and wrecked wires here this old is common. (even bad ground to distrib)

that other guy had  a kid or buddy watch the CEL lamp flash as person 1 drove safely not distracted,
BE safe Please.

[1995 toad]

been watching... no codes during the timing change episodes so far.

[fixkick]

been watching... no codes during the timing change episodes so far.

can you make it misfire parked on your demand?
yes  then:
use a timing light on all 4 plug wires , 1 one at a time.
to learn if all 4 go dead (misfiring) or just 1, ? or none.
this can find what is the true cause.
i can't hear engine or see it shake or drive it to feel it or when happens and when not.

To fix cars like this for sure old,  a scope is best, dumb ECU means tech needs better tools to find the cause.
or guess,  new distrib and spark coil?

good luck to you.