89 suki sidekick keeps dying-flooded?

[bruski]

Got this awesome little 4X4. It has check eng. light on and off. It stalls just after it warms up-but not all the time. Yesterday going in rev. come to complete stop-shift to 1st gear it stalls and wouldn't start. Smelled like it was flooded. Going down steep hill in 4x4 it will die, but starts up again.

Made in Japan 12/88
vin # JS4TA51C6K4101813.

all the info I could get off of tags.
Dist cap and rotor were corroded=changing them and spark plugs today.
Have fuel filer to change too.

Oh went today and it started up, but acted like it was flooded at first.
What else can I do?
Love this thing runs good when it doesn't die.

Update: After changing plugs=cap and rotor it started rough then ran okay. Took it to the hills behind house, check eng light only came on or flashed when letting off the gas, never stalled out. Only did this when going downhill or braking to stop. Light goes off when giving the gas to it, comes back on or flashes when I let up.

[fixkick]

this is the 1989, the first ones were actually made in JAPAN, not CAMI.

or is the G16a engine, 1.6L
its a suzuki not geo
the J in front of the VIN tells you its japan.made. and the plant code too.
is car in USA or Canada, (matters for EGR tests and other details)


it is flooding,sniff sniff, i bet it was misfiring too. and that is #1 , any engine that misfires needs work. (heard, felt, or seen to shake at idle)
did you now the ECU on this ca,r does not create or time spark?, (monitors it yes, cuts fuel if the tachometer line goes dead sure)
but spark needs to be checked. first.
Okay , why are you ignoring the CEL, it only comes on , if catastrophic errors.

first find the DLC connectors.
the diagnostic jumper is a fuse.
seen here.
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html

you can use the fuse, keyon,, running or driving, all 3 ways work and all 3 can help find proplems for sure driving.

im not sure what you can do but anyone can check fuel pressure, if out of spec, and too high all , flood.
but that is getting to far down the line, you need to read the DTC errors the ecu is trying so hard to convey to you.
the codes are easy to read, code 12 is normal
all others are failures, it can report many errors in serial process , one at time.
this is first first.

Now dying down hill, (at throttle cut, must be 3speed automatic trans)
the ECU prevents that, all ECU do that, prevents that, , it does that via a device called an ISC (or IAC electric)
the ECU, opens that valve to keep idle at 800 rpm hot, going down hill ,that is the idle speed.
going down hill the throttle switch must closed telling ECU YOU ARE NOW at idle or now throttle closed.
what is hot idle in park? RPM. in the drive way.
is engine at 180f+ temp,hot, it must be.
for idle to work right, all other things must be right.
when going down hill if you hot foot the throttle, festering it does this prevent the stall>?
stalls can be many things, over 50 actually but less in physics and about 10 test to find it.
i cant drive itn and hear it misfire or see engine temps normal.
stalls,
1: loss of 12vdc power to the ECU or distributor coil. (see things go dead , at stall, electric things>?)
2: engine not fully hot. flooding. as all do, not hot. 180f normal.
3: engine sensors bad. (flash codes ? diag test mode , may tell you which it is , )
4: spark fails, now. unlikely just at cut throttle.?
5: fuel pressures wrong, , not likely at idle. but possible.
6: engine compression marginal , ever check it, or put in a new rubber band cam belt, every 60k miles.? if it retards engine will never ever run right again.,
6A: IF SPARK TIMING is off, the above is cause. do not set spark timing until above is corrected first.
7: ISC bad, or gummed up and stuck closed, it stalls. like most 89s do, they are known to fail, this year, this old, big time.
8: idle switch bad or TPS not calibrated, so the switch can work, it reads 0v at hot idle 800 rpm, not , bad news. needs calibration.
9: EGR valve stuck open, they love to do that ,at all stops signs, cut throttle,, if it does it will either stall or shake at like 400 rpm , illegal idle speeds.


thats it for now.
good luck!

Got this awesome little 4X4. It has check eng. light on and off. It stalls just after it warms up-but not all the time.
Yesterday going in rev. come to complete stop-shift to 1st gear it stalls and wouldn't start.
Smelled like it was flooded. Going down steep hill in 4x4 it will die, but starts up again.

Made in Japan built 12/88 (89 model)
vin # JS4TA51C6K4101813

all the info I could get off of tags.
Dist cap and rotor were corroded=changing them and spark plugs today.
Have fuel filer to change too.

Oh went today and it started up, but acted like it was flooded at first.
What else can I do?
Love this thing runs good when it doesn't die.

Update: After changing plugs=cap and rotor it started rough then ran okay.
Took it to the hills behind house, check eng light only came on or flashed when letting off the gas, never stalled out. Only did this when going downhill or braking to stop. Light goes off when giving the gas to it, comes back on or flashes when I let up.

[bruski]

this is the 1989, the first ones were actually made in JAPAN, not CAMI.

or is the G16a engine, 1.6L
its a suzuki not geo
the J in front of the VIN tells you its japan.made. and the plant code too.
is car in USA or Canada, (matters for EGR tests and other details)


it is flooding,sniff sniff, i bet it was misfiring too. and that is #1 , any engine that misfires needs work. (heard, felt, or seen to shake at idle)
did you now the ECU on this ca,r does not create or time spark?, (monitors it yes, cuts fuel if the tachometer line goes dead sure)
but spark needs to be checked. first.
Okay , why are you ignoring the CEL, it only comes on , if catastrophic errors.

first find the DLC connectors.
the diagnostic jumper is a fuse.
seen here.
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html

you can use the fuse, keyon,, running or driving, all 3 ways work and all 3 can help find proplems for sure driving.

im not sure what you can do but anyone can check fuel pressure, if out of spec, and too high all , flood.
but that is getting to far down the line, you need to read the DTC errors the ecu is trying so hard to convey to you.
the codes are easy to read, code 12 is normal
all others are failures, it can report many errors in serial process , one at time.
this is first first.

Now dying down hill, (at throttle cut, must be 3speed automatic trans)
the ECU prevents that, all ECU do that, prevents that, , it does that via a device called an ISC (or IAC electric)
the ECU, opens that valve to keep idle at 800 rpm hot, going down hill ,that is the idle speed.
going down hill the throttle switch must closed telling ECU YOU ARE NOW at idle or now throttle closed.
what is hot idle in park? RPM. in the drive way.
is engine at 180f+ temp,hot, it must be.
for idle to work right, all other things must be right.
when going down hill if you hot foot the throttle, festering it does this prevent the stall>?
stalls can be many things, over 50 actually but less in physics and about 10 test to find it.
i cant drive itn and hear it misfire or see engine temps normal.
stalls,
1: loss of 12vdc power to the ECU or distributor coil. (see things go dead , at stall, electric things>?)
2: engine not fully hot. flooding. as all do, not hot. 180f normal.
3: engine sensors bad. (flash codes ? diag test mode , may tell you which it is , )
4: spark fails, now. unlikely just at cut throttle.?
5: fuel pressures wrong, , not likely at idle. but possible.
6: engine compression marginal , ever check it, or put in a new rubber band cam belt, every 60k miles.? if it retards engine will never ever run right again.,
6A: IF SPARK TIMING is off, the above is cause. do not set spark timing until above is corrected first.
7: ISC bad, or gummed up and stuck closed, it stalls. like most 89s do, they are known to fail, this year, this old, big time.
8: idle switch bad or TPS not calibrated, so the switch can work, it reads 0v at hot idle 800 rpm, not , bad news. needs calibration.
9: EGR valve stuck open, they love to do that ,at all stops signs, cut throttle,, if it does it will either stall or shake at like 400 rpm , illegal idle speeds.


thats it for now.
good luck!

Got this awesome little 4X4. It has check eng. light on and off. It stalls just after it warms up-but not all the time.
Yesterday going in rev. come to complete stop-shift to 1st gear it stalls and wouldn't start.
Smelled like it was flooded. Going down steep hill in 4x4 it will die, but starts up again.

Made in Japan built 12/88 (89 model)
vin # JS4TA51C6K4101813

all the info I could get off of tags.
Dist cap and rotor were corroded=changing them and spark plugs today.
Have fuel filer to change too.

Oh went today and it started up, but acted like it was flooded at first.
What else can I do?
Love this thing runs good when it doesn't die.

Update: After changing plugs=cap and rotor it started rough then ran okay.
Took it to the hills behind house, check eng light only came on or flashed when letting off the gas, never stalled out. Only did this when going downhill or braking to stop. Light goes off when giving the gas to it, comes back on or flashes when I let up.

Forgot to add==it's 5 speed manuel==first sold in springdale AR. I live 1 hour east in mountains. Told it was a 1 owner car. Parked in garage for year or 2. Someone put black tape over eng light, curious why. Has new timing belt. Missing fuse cover and cover under steering wheel. Will do test to find out codes. Thanks for help.
Also, what happens if I gut cat insides out? No smog tests in Ark. Mainly farm and hunting car for now.

[bruski]

this is the 1989, the first ones were actually made in JAPAN, not CAMI.

or is the G16a engine, 1.6L
its a suzuki not geo
the J in front of the VIN tells you its japan.made. and the plant code too.
is car in USA or Canada, (matters for EGR tests and other details)


it is flooding,sniff sniff, i bet it was misfiring too. and that is #1 , any engine that misfires needs work. (heard, felt, or seen to shake at idle)
did you now the ECU on this ca,r does not create or time spark?, (monitors it yes, cuts fuel if the tachometer line goes dead sure)
but spark needs to be checked. first.
Okay , why are you ignoring the CEL, it only comes on , if catastrophic errors.

first find the DLC connectors.
the diagnostic jumper is a fuse.
seen here.
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html

you can use the fuse, keyon,, running or driving, all 3 ways work and all 3 can help find proplems for sure driving.

im not sure what you can do but anyone can check fuel pressure, if out of spec, and too high all , flood.
but that is getting to far down the line, you need to read the DTC errors the ecu is trying so hard to convey to you.
the codes are easy to read, code 12 is normal
all others are failures, it can report many errors in serial process , one at time.
this is first first.

Now dying down hill, (at throttle cut, must be 3speed automatic trans)
the ECU prevents that, all ECU do that, prevents that, , it does that via a device called an ISC (or IAC electric)
the ECU, opens that valve to keep idle at 800 rpm hot, going down hill ,that is the idle speed.
going down hill the throttle switch must closed telling ECU YOU ARE NOW at idle or now throttle closed.
what is hot idle in park? RPM. in the drive way.
is engine at 180f+ temp,hot, it must be.
for idle to work right, all other things must be right.
when going down hill if you hot foot the throttle, festering it does this prevent the stall>?
stalls can be many things, over 50 actually but less in physics and about 10 test to find it.
i cant drive itn and hear it misfire or see engine temps normal.
stalls,
1: loss of 12vdc power to the ECU or distributor coil. (see things go dead , at stall, electric things>?)
2: engine not fully hot. flooding. as all do, not hot. 180f normal.
3: engine sensors bad. (flash codes ? diag test mode , may tell you which it is , )
4: spark fails, now. unlikely just at cut throttle.?
5: fuel pressures wrong, , not likely at idle. but possible.
6: engine compression marginal , ever check it, or put in a new rubber band cam belt, every 60k miles.? if it retards engine will never ever run right again.,
6A: IF SPARK TIMING is off, the above is cause. do not set spark timing until above is corrected first.
7: ISC bad, or gummed up and stuck closed, it stalls. like most 89s do, they are known to fail, this year, this old, big time.
8: idle switch bad or TPS not calibrated, so the switch can work, it reads 0v at hot idle 800 rpm, not , bad news. needs calibration.
9: EGR valve stuck open, they love to do that ,at all stops signs, cut throttle,, if it does it will either stall or shake at like 400 rpm , illegal idle speeds.


thats it for now.
good luck!

Got this awesome little 4X4. It has check eng. light on and off. It stalls just after it warms up-but not all the time.
Yesterday going in rev. come to complete stop-shift to 1st gear it stalls and wouldn't start.
Smelled like it was flooded. Going down steep hill in 4x4 it will die, but starts up again.

Made in Japan built 12/88 (89 model)
vin # JS4TA51C6K4101813

all the info I could get off of tags.
Dist cap and rotor were corroded=changing them and spark plugs today.
Have fuel filer to change too.

Oh went today and it started up, but acted like it was flooded at first.
What else can I do?
Love this thing runs good when it doesn't die.

Update: After changing plugs=cap and rotor it started rough then ran okay.
Took it to the hills behind house, check eng light only came on or flashed when letting off the gas, never stalled out. Only did this when going downhill or braking to stop. Light goes off when giving the gas to it, comes back on or flashes when I let up.

Forgot to add==it's 5 speed manuel==first sold in springdale AR. I live 1 hour east in mountains. Told it was a 1 owner car. Parked in garage for year or 2. Someone put black tape over eng light, curious why. Has new timing belt. Missing fuse cover and cover under steering wheel. Will do test to find out codes. Thanks for help.
Also, what happens if I gut cat insides out? No smog tests in Ark. Mainly farm and hunting car for now.

Okay=stuck fuse into what I believe is the right place.(This is all new to me)Give me a 305 chev motor have no problems figuring it out. I started the motor=got 1 flash then 2 flashes quickly. Pause-1 flash followed by 2 quick flashes, pulled fuse clear-no eng. light while idleing. Didn't see any numbers anywhere.

[fixkick]

flash code, (just like old GM) 12s is good. Gm has the same deal, even back to mid 80s... its not new, not at all, OBD1 is all like this,
even the first EFI vettes had this... same deal. GM did this way before the 1988 smog law was written, (jumping the gun was super smart by them)!!! (Cadillac Seville TBI 1979, 38 years of EFI)
until 1996. OBD2 happened, (youd be getting misfire codes)
make sure the dome fuse is good or the ECU memory goes dead, causing error driving , to be lost, when you stop and key
off, dome fuse good, is cure.
then drive, and make sure CEL stay off.
you said
heck eng light only came on or flashed when letting off the gas, (TOP WARNING HERE)
that means (dome fuse good) drive with the DIAG jumper inserted, (harmless this is ) and then the real error as you drive.

most the DTC that set , cause limphome, mode
and will loose power,go rich as a pig and blacken the spark plugs,

is this your diag fuse?
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/Fuse-with-diag.jpg

if yes then that is it.
if no its next to battery

the key things on this car (beside a full tuneup)
1: CRANK Front bolt, 17mm socket at 94/ft/lbs never less. no damage to snout and timed correctly the belt.
2: fuel pressure at spec.
3: distrib ok, no misfiring, no bad ignitor there.
4: fuel pressure at spec, cranking and running, fuel pressure is zero or falling keyon only, unlike 1991 and newer.
5: stuck in limphome (limpin or failsafe) *(most DTC error the)
6: ECU lost syndrome, mean ECU can not get fuel rate correct (its dumber then) top reason #1 above.
7: EGR stuck open , stall, only WOT works.
8: its not vacuum air leaks at all.
(

the dome fuse is right next to the HL fuse, head lamps

is this your box.? its a shame ever car the PO lost it, a dirty shame, forcing wire color validations...
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/Fuse-with-diag.jpg


you said it stall.
down hill to a stop
but can you prevent with fast right foot, (easy, hard, impossible) we need this KEY FACT.
keep the diag, jumper in place until car is fixed. and WIN.

[fixkick]

cat gut kills DEAD the EGR.for ever.
but can also cause the EGR mod valve to go nuts, super bad that, so remove the hose from the EGR main valve and GOLD TEE the end, stopping vacuum leaks
then make sure the EGR main is 100% closed, and not case cracked and not gasket leaking
now and only now is EGR defeated.
code 51 (USA) then set, what effect that has, no ideal, I hope non. DTC 51 is (bad EGR)
show a photo of your Main EGR and can teach more tricks there, (FED< CALif, and Canada cars are not the same) see?

[fixkick]

Didn't see any numbers anywhere. (on car> or in the books? ) where not seen?
the codes are on my CEL page
every one for 15 years
here
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/DTC-errors/DTC-jtgh.html

[fixkick]

in most cases. (maybe not 51)
the CEL glows and then engine
looses power
sucks fuel sometimes 2 times faster.
spark plugs foul.
if it goes to backup mode, CEL totally dead. (even key on dead, out)
it will flood and stall and be UN-drivable.
if ECU gets lost (say the FPR sticks closed) the it floods for ever.

[bruski]

in most cases. (maybe not 51)
the CEL glows and then engine
looses power
sucks fuel sometimes 2 times faster.
spark plugs foul.
if it goes to backup mode, CEL totally dead. (even key on dead, out)
it will flood and stall and be UN-drivable.
if ECU gets lost (say the FPR sticks closed) the it floods for ever.

The light stays off most of time. Only comes on when I let off the gas. Stalled one time while climbing up a hill in 1st gear, started up like it was flooded 10 minutes later. No problems after that, may have not been totally warmed up. I'm running ocean spray clean out in gas tank, may have affect on it.

Thanks for all the help, will be doing all the suggestions you made over next couple days.

[fixkick]

the lamp never lies. ever. this lamp glows, only for catastrophic errors,
like a wire just broke off a KEY sensor. errors.
Chevron Techron is best fuel additive, I never use any but cars parked, are a bad problem parked over 1 year, and worse with low fuel.

drive with the DIAGNOSIS jumper inserted,
next time it fails, the CEL will flash a new code, not 12s.
takes careful eye to see the new code, none 12s, happen..
again the CEL did not lie to you. a fact.

rich on this car
is.
fuel pressure too high
ECU stuck in limhome
or 02 stuck at 0v, due to wire cut or exhaust leaks to it. (rear on 8v. this but possible at header gasket missing or cracked)
leaking injector o-ring pair, can be watched running,
many 8v TBI' are hacked, this injector has 2 wires, and both (not one) are pulsed,(un like MPI)

and one wire goes, dead, then the badguy,cuts the wire (ecu is bad is real prob) and he hot wires the dead wire. BOOM , horror.
a hopeless case now as it will run rich for ever and ever,.... seen many, heard many done like this on many forums.... sad really to see it.
ECT stuck at Frigid )300 ohms is good hot, connector pulled. see ECT tables at kickfix. for all values.
thermostat missing , wrong one or put in backwards.
MAP failing (rare) x10 more likely hoses bad or clogged to it, sure, it will food.

and #1 is, what.
IN LIMPHOME, it will burn 2 times the normal rate of fuel, 15mpg possible horrid.
one lady here is like that now, TPS failed and ecu locked in limphome, and her mechanic, fears this tps, fears doing test to find true cause and fears the 2 page PDF calibration. sad , all sad....