1997 engine missfire

[MP2]

I bought an autel, autolink al 439.i have a nexiq prolink grapic as well but that's for the semi's. If I get a chance ill pull the timing cover off, and see how the indexes line up. thanks again for all your help.

[fixkick]

that autel, is solid.
ive never seen 1 tracker, (kick) this old with out 10 problems, most owners do not do the required maintenance.

your scan too must not drop out.
but i forgot to say same scan tools forget to do the keep alive command. some ECU drop comms, (bugs) and the tools have to be smart enough to do that.
but the 97 does not have that bug. ive driven and logged that ECU for many miles, 10 or 20.

not body ever changes the belt. and has no hope of running 300k like an engine.
on most kicks the belt slips. then the cam retards and compression hits 90psi.
i check #1 PSI every time, if it 90, i then check all 4, if all 4 are 90 well, the belt slipped. even a small slip might cause the ecu to totally mess up misfire detection and for sure
cause all pulses from the CKP to be all lies. (chaos )
#2 is that crank bolt 17mm deep wall, not a 94ft/lbs. (like the 1996 TSB demands) and now the key is wallowed out. (chaos)
i do hope its 1 problem and just a funky CKP. they usually last forever.

[MP2]

alright back to go, it started acting up again here at lunch higher rpm, same grief. so I had a look at the wire running to the sensor, someone routed it up against the alternator, could be picking up rfi from alternator. 2nd issue, its a shielded cable and the braid down at the plug has been cut and folded back over itself about 3 inches up from the plug. could have been an rfi issue all along. should the braided shield be grounded at each end? and I also believe the 2 wires should be twisted not parralell, or maybe that's what the braid does. not sure how the wire is supposed to be routed but ill keep at as far from alt as possible.

[fixkick]

oops. i have no idea what engine is in that car? not me but its no G16B 1996 and newer
does the hood have a (look up underside of it) have a white sticker with vacuum routes, does it say USA federal , USA calif or Canada fed.?
in 1996 then added the teeth and all have the same teeth count.
maybe this is a 99 engine,, on the left side of the block is the SERIAL G16Tnnnnn where T is the year.

alright back to go, it started acting up again here at lunch higher rpm, same grief. (unplugged CKP?)
so I had a look at the wire running to the sensor, someone routed it up against the alternator, could be picking up rfi from alternator. 2nd issue,
it is shielded and must be grounded , that shield in the proper way.

it's a shielded cable and the braid down at the plug has been cut and folded back over itself about 3 inches up from the plug. could have been an rfi issue all along. should the braided shield be grounded at each end? (no,, because that forms a bad ground loop, its grounded at the other end)_

and I also believe the 2 wires should be twisted not parallel, or maybe that's what the braid does. (yes, twists are cheap cables , with no braids) (like cat5/6 cables,)
not sure how the wire is supposed to be routed but ill keep at as far from alt as possible.

The cable is shielded, the twists can help but are redundant to the shield, just trust the shield to work. and only 1 ground. never 2.
2 grounds create a ground loop and becomes a noise generator via ground currents.... the harness pages, in FSM show this clearly.



all 96s, round down the left (drivers perspective) timing cover.
if the belt was slipped and is now corrected, then the dizzy is now wrong, .


year decodes off my page.
T= 96
V=97
w-98
x=99
y-2000
1=2001 ect for engine codes. same with VIN year codes.
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/VIN-motor-decoder.html

this is the only valid COG 96 to 98, im doing research of 99 plus (later this AM)
this and only this cog works with your ECU, do yo have your ECU P/n? maybe they are not a match>? dash 71E31? or 71E01?



lower left bell mount, on engine



last , does your ECU MATCH this, includes canada cars.

ecu charts, PDF reader needed.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/EPC-ECU96-98/...N_ECU1.pdf

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"the one on my sunrunner has at least 4 times as many notches for the csp."

WRONG !

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the one on my sunrunner has at least 4 times as many notches for the csp.

CKP,
suzuki makes 56 engines. so mixing parts can be , a problem.
im in the EPC trying to see if there is any 1.6l variants . sure there are DOHC motors, with chains, but only the ESTEEM variant , matches 52G01 cogs.
Im sure you have a 52G cog. (tone wheel) (so , wrong engine, wrong ecu, or wrong cog)

the correct cog is -75B01.
see correct tone wheel here, works up to year 2004 for G16B engines.
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/damage/index.html#Parts


I looked at all 1.6L and the only cog change the
that has cog (tonewheel) dash 52G01 number. SY416 body, for Esteem cars.
what CAMI used for engines in a Sunrunner? i bet nobody knows.

but the engine serial, and ecu p/n and the under hood sticker, do help.


my new engine. (new crank, used block, and new rebuilt head.)
http://www.fixkick.com/engine/97-motor-p...ge_58.html


is your Throttle body a left hand side draft body, that is , it mounts to the left plenum , like this photo shows

this is what all 1996 , G16B engines look like in USA and canada, Suz , GEO or from CAMI, (can't speak for sunrunners, rare too)
watch out for other folks, swapping short blocks and not paying attention to the crank cog.

on ours the moved the back washer the the the cog in 1995, then in 1996, the cog. (OBD2 TONE WHEEL) it has only 6 teeth?
and stayed that way even past 1999 on 1.6L SOHC.
I can not see your motor , so my guessing is WIDE SCOPE.
does that sun runner have an RPO tag. open glove box. see huge tag? and those numbers all state what was in the car day one, build wise.
ALL GM /GEOs. have that , same with Pontiac. and can be decoded, using my RPO page.

[fixkick]

oops I lied, the CKP wire is here, the the over top wire is, OIL SENDER (i forgot)
see page 5, here, the cable is lower left, seen here,

http://www.fixkick.com/engine/96-98%2016...motor1.pdf


this sensor does send very weak signals to the ECU, and must be shield, the shield seen here is just bare. not connected to anything
the ECU has a filter , and amp and a zero crossing detector to find the 6 teeth. G16B engines.

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my only question now is> (it is after all a SunRunner, by Pontiac)
1: photo of your engine.?
2: photo of your underhood tag, the white VACUUM map , or if not there?, the canada tags on the wire wall, see a maple leaf tag there?
3: ECU part number. (big time important that, it tells me what COG is necessary()!
4: Body VIN
5: engine serial,num.
6: if new belt installed, a photo of the bottom cog, or a tooth count?
7: oil filler front or rear of VC? some engines 1.6L with high count cog teeth, have filler front. not rear. (off shore cars)
9: Throttle body location. (left rear of plenum? or #1 above)
10: A PHOTO of the RPO tag, this tag is the CAMI "AS built." showing everything added, day one.
it has a belt cam drive, that is all i really know, (no photos)

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the fun thing here (for sick ecu , hackers) is , does the ECU go berserk with a (illegal) large count tone wheel on the crank.
it may.
if you study ECU's (megasquirt is good place for that , and other) you find that the ECU, (old slow ECU) create what is called a virtual crankshaft in the software (firmware)
this runs the engine, totally. (timing wise)
and is synchronized by the cam sensors (if dead the engine dies, dead CMP cam sensor.)
and is synchronized by the CKP (precision sync for TDC real. absolute) 1996+
so what happens to a dash 71Exx ECu when you send an illegal chain of pulses to the CKP port.?
it's a huge contradiction to the cam sensor, CMP. (a little war is caused, the the ECU thinks, gee, why is my cam so slow? or far worse....)
it may go quite nuts. (maybe it even resets it self. (dropping comm's during that event? it would, if true)
and never seen, this nor expect to...

I have a far smarter FORD ECU here, 1996 and it spits out a vast number DTC during my lies sent to it, ive tried them all.. but the ford dies with no CKP, (big diffr) the ford uses wasted spark ign. so works backwards to the Suzuki system. That ECU is a Suzuki ECU, see the sticker?

if you send the RPM 2 times, actual, all bets off.


Canada tags


USA tag 96


ECU,, this is top questions
yours will be 71Exx not 56b , if ECU is 61xxx ecu, its for esteem engine. the high tooth count crank cog. below is 8v motor, US= USA< CA = CA?

[MP2]

            here are some pics, the engine serial number looks different than you describe. im guessing now that this isn't original engine. Suzuki sold this engine to different chassis manufactures? it look like the 16v in your pictures, rear oil fill, tb at rear.

[fixkick]

72e40, will look that up before 5pm
G161? that is 2001 engine or has what i call Euro makers, other countries use no year codes. (they use sn ranges in the stead)
is that a G in front?
T61 DRL head lamps.
the mxx code for tranny is missing? odd that.

rpo
came with L01 engine that is 16v 1.6L MPI
Z49 is Canada smogged
Z41 is pontiac conversion. it not M41, tranny code.



left is truncated
NF2,usa fed tier 2 smog
M41? 4sp A/T? no its Z41, my error.

L01 is 16v MPI 16v motor. but there are many.
the question is does CAMI use special engine serials? just on Canada cars. i dont know. (my micro- films (fiche) only do CAMI GEO)

[fixkick]

ok more progress
72e40 (is reallya 72E41, the end 1, is newer version, so is of no matter) but 72 means 1997 only, usa Fed, or Canada.
the code 4 means , Manual tranny, 2 or 4 door.
so that means to me, that your CKP is wrong, dead wrong , and the EPC clearly shows one cog fitting all 96-98, G16bs
The EPC flat shows your cog is wrong, for that ECU. my guess you have ESTEEM engine in there. and that is ok? but not with that COG
the ESTEEM ECu is vastly different .

that is an engine swap, buy a new cog and it will run prefect
cog, crank 12630-57B01
1996 to at least 2001 it was used

http://www.oemsuzukiparts.com/parts/inde...eid=214330

if say the PO, swapped in a Canada or USA 1.6L Esteem , model, say 1998 or newer, ITS GOT THE WRONG cog for sure.
the change over happened in 1998 Esteem world. only.
there are some facts and history. The EPC makes that possible.

[MP2]

    thank you vey much for all your help. the local suzy dealer has to get them from Toronto, 48bux. unfortunately, I have to head up north to work, so I will be running with the crank sensor unplugged, in flaccid mode. here is a pic of my 93 in the back of the dump truck. ill send you one tomorrow of the loading ceremony.

thanks again
jon

[fixkick]

made my day , that flaccid mode.
that is a cool photo, 100% grade too.....

they keep raising the price, on that part, 2010 was $31 bucks,