Finding CAM TDC

[fixkick]

Dear Fixkick:
As per usual, thank you for the great explanation your provided above). your welcome. and all good questions!!!

Today, I took the timing belt cover off to check whether the Crank TDC was set right, and that also the Cylinder 1’s TDC (at the firing cycle) was also set properly, so my distributor’s installation would be correct. Well, they were are set correctly.

However, again, I have another fundamental question. There is a video on the Youtube that very beautifully, with a great detail, explains and demonstrate valve adjustment of 1.3L 8V Suzuki Samurai (1985-1995) engine, which seems to be almost identical to 1.6 8V engine that I have.
In that video, when the technician wants to adjust the valves, he states that adjustment should be done when the lobe of each cam is at 6 O’clock , so that rocker arm is at the heal the cam of the valve being adjusted (that is the heel would be at 12 O’clock).NO in the beginning of the video his finger touched the center of the heels and he spoke 6pm (his rules on PM)

This makes complete sense to me.
(it should "heels", that this the generic way to set lash on engines at the heels. the heel is a 1/2 circle, and the valve is open then.)
My lash page if you read it, covers the SUZUKI book why (even has the FSM pages too) and covers the ASE way, heels,(6pm?) he said proper way, not that is ASE way, my page cover
ASE (proper) and Suzuki way, (less turns with Suzuki way)
you posted and not even show a photo of you cam cog, so cant guess which one you have, nor how to time it... very hard for me lacking 1 photo of your cam.


(Please see the video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPVn2xwO81Q - check at time 1:14)
However, I have now two engines;
When I put the engine at the TDC of Cylinder 4 (that is when the notch on the cam wheel is at 12 O’clock, as shown in the picture you posted in my thread), then the lobe of the intake cam of the cylinder is not exactly at 6 PM. (now we must have cam timing , rules, ok I have one drawing,suzuki does not publish this. but ISKY did)
the back of the cam is a huge heal, the heel is flat, no lobe. so the valve is closed during that huge period, of the heel.
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/heel.jpg
the cam is not timed like and air compressor, no its timed for like best air flow at say 4000rpm. (max torque) so at idle or hand turned, then timing looks a tad funny.
The ASE way sets last at 4 TDC firing points, 0degrees. (works on all engines)
The Suzuki way cheats using the LONG flat heels using only 2 steps, (it works perfect) "after all lash can not change if on the heels."
we have the FSM on his engine too. the G13 for the SAMMI , need it? it too cheats the ASE way.
see my page, see I present the 4 way s to set lash, way one is the Suzuki cheater way.
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/LASH/Lash8v.html
way 2, is ASE way , 4 stops , 1,3,4,2 (as taught in all ASE schools and means you dont need the FSM book to set lash, just the lash gap spec. on hood sticker)
way 3 is 4,2,1,3 : same as 2 but new order)
way 4 is random heels way, (what ever comes up now, at heals, we set lash) same as 2 but random, (what ever floats a persons boat)


If I put the lobe of the cam that corresponds to the intake valve of cylinder 4 at exactly 6 PM (which I suppose NO should put the lobe of the intake of cylinder 1 at 12 O’clock), NO !
then the factory notch on the cam wheel moves to 2 O’clock position, instead of the 12 O’clock. Exactly the same thing also happens when I check the old engine.
you dont understand cam timing. (it is tricky and will be shown here, last below here with a real cam profile card,)


Can you please explain to me what is going on?
The two engines cannot be coincidentally set incorrectly at exactly the same positions! true, (they have same cam)
I would appreciate your comment in regard to the above issue. no problem

Now, if the setup is correct, I am going to conclude that the only reason I cannot get rid of the backfiring and low power is the car’s computer, since the distributor is also set properly, and that the timing is set at exactly 8 deg. BTC, with a strobe light (and the static timing jumper).
the engine is first. (not spark)
the 3 rules are (called basic) GOOD engine, (compression at spec) , good spark, timed right, and last good fueling,
in that order, going backwards, is impossible. in that order you have proper cylinder pressures, (timing) and you cant burn fuel with bad or weak spark, and the ECU can not undersand
bad engines or bad spark, leaving fueling dead last.



1: ENGINE GOOD, MEANS , lash good, cam timed to 12pm, notch at #4
2: lash good.
3: compression at spec, I never fail to check this ever, (150psi or more , all equal) why not check your work, ?
4: set the distributor last and use Bosch mag wires, (or NGK if you can afford them)
5: egr closed and defeated.
6: new cap, rotor , and Mag spark wires work best.... in all cases... no carbon wires or silicon bs wires... real mag wires WIN. suzuki spark, is weak so use the best wires.
spark gap to 0.028" not .045 out of the box, never.
7: now we attach the ECU and it sensors.
but first bad inputs to ECU, never ECU first ever.,... after all its just a computer and like such, makes gross errors with bad inputs.
so that is:
a; fuel pressure at spec, key, on and running.
B; thermostat in engine works.
c: ECT reads 300 ohms hot (unplugged hot)
d: IAT reads like 100f? or 1000 ohms or a scan tool makes both sensors easy to check.
e: MAP reads right keyon, idling and gunned.
f: 02 not stuck. (it must swing about 6 times a second at hot idle) if not closed loop is dead, if dead, we work this NOw..
g: no exhaust leaks near o2.
h: injector dont leak, (can be watched, ask how)
i: injectors not clogged. (has 10micron screen and when removed super easy DIY clean up, unlike the MPI engine.
j: ECU flashes 12s on demand and even driving (really this is step 1. sorry)
k: no funny spark plugs, use real suzuki spec, J plugs.

there can be other problems. sure. bad wiring to distrib. or to any sensor. sure. bad coil, bad ignitor. see tachometer jump? oddly?

on the hard nut cases?, knowing what it is not, points to what might be failing.



Looking forward to hearing your comments.
Regards,
Zackman

this is G13 cam, L-110
the intake closes late. 54deg after BTC ! (valve over lap this is called, and is for max power at say 4000 rpm, and weak compression cranking, (say)
and opens 32deg before TDC, ( this means it opens early before the exuast stroke is finished, (same reason.0

http://www.fixkick.com/isky%20cam%20card.jpg

all that matters, here, is lash done (ANYWHERE) a the HEELS
both crank and cam code keys are not damaged.
the cam not keyed at "I" slot (no photos yet so?) and not timed using the "I" markers on outer rim.
and engine makes 150PSI.
as you can see the cam is time unlike any compressor..... a compressor will make max compression, no engine does.


now sammi PDF, G13
http://www.fixkick.com/sammi-stuff/books/sammi-v1.pdf

page 3-54. step 4. (lash)
see them check using only 2 steps, just like the G16
1257
3468
and forgets to say Clockwise turn it, oops.
this is the SUZUKI way and works ever time. makes the job 2 times more easy.

none of the cam lobes are centered on TDC, not one. (like compressor)
how ever if engine was VVT engine,its closer to TDC.

but lash is loose and valves are closed, At TDC and makes 150psi min, compression cold , under starter power. W.O.T
that matters.
that 150 on mine does, 170psi warm, easy. even with 190k miles on it.

---

back firing can be bad timing (top reason) cam or spark.
or burned valves.
not doing compression tests is a travesty.
on a new engine we do it on the pallet.
why put a dead engine in a car.? huge labor, all just a huge waste of time.
the compression tests, tell you, that the valves are not burned up, and the rings, not collapsed and more..
its a bench mark, the engine will do like near 300 PSI with a compressor cam in it (theory and fact)
with engine cam in it , it does 150 to 170 , cold to hot. (the cylinders get more round hot)
the CR dictates the compression, never displacement
and the cam profile and altitude.
the car has a stock cam so you will get 150psi, min, at sea level to 1000 feet.
this test is a very good test. as is the leak down test. for finding where the leak is.

I cant hear or see it backfire,
so cant speculate too well!
are the HV wires timed right, if it runs ok at one rpm , the wires are right.
does it have china rotor in it, that times 3 ways, (bs), then buy a bosch rotor , they dont.
misfiring is complex and best to know when it happens and not. under all conditions. and what it sounds like.
is it backfiring, to air cleaner, or to exhaust muffler.
is it worse cold or hot engine?
can you get full wot power from engine?