High Idle when hot - low power on up hill

[fixkick]

ok , seems soda choice 1 is most safe, (sodium bicarbonate or baking soda )
OBD2 16pins. conn3 (photo 3)
what pins are populated.? i cant tell with photo which are , only some...
IS #3 conn, under dash? where is that?

16pin conn3, pins 2, 4,5 , 7 , 10 and 16 are wired. (2,7,10 , one or two pins can be missing but never all 3)

conn2, is missing a pin. and which side is the INDEX tab. purple is pin A(1) blue-yellow is diag pin, see that color?

conn1. is not this missing pin too? and is blue-yellow present
there are lots of unused connectors, the DLC underhood has rubber cap, if no cap seen its not DLC



the 4 locations are (driver seated)
1: obd2 right knee, seated as driver, LHD< left hand drive. in the cab.
2: just in front of battery, under hood next 3
3: right front head light shell.
4: left strut tower,

The good news is that today I put the part back on and it seem sthat all work good - seems like the idle problem is solved !
The bad news is that the low power problem and the strange sound from the low part of the engine specially on uphill (sound that reminds an old beatle car whlie driving) - is still exists...

I looked for the OBD1 connectors for the check and found those 3:


Didn't make the DTC check because didn't know which one of the switches to use
and what to do with them exactly ... seems like need to use the one of the first two...

Going to read more about it...
Any tips will be very appreciated

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According to the videos on youtube the electrolisys can do magic with removing rust...

Here is 2 videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi8qIxK4IlA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_fAauPKH4o

There is 2 options to make the liquid:
1. (my option) Water + Cleaning soda
2. Water + distilled vinegar + salt

[SrgBog]

The OBD2 is located where the right knee of the driver are...
Those other 2 connectors are located where the front head light are, under the hood.
Both of them have rubber cups.
Its already after midnight in my country so I will check at the day time the cable colors and the pins
presence in OBD2 - and will update.

THANK YOU


BTW. For the elecrolisys only sodium carbonate is good (cleaning soda) - sodium BIcarbonat (baking soda) are NOT good for electrolisys. (according to videos that I saw on youtube)

[fixkick]

good, night
it's 8pm here.

yes, if we had a matching book on market 56 car the fsm, we'd turn to the ECU page and all these facts are there.
so we just look at wire colors, and populated pins and can say what's there. OBD1 or 2. (or see in FSM P030x codes, any P0xxx codes is OBD2)
if its obd2, we have cheap tools to find many problems more easy.

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you are welcome.

[SrgBog]

Hello
So I looked at the cables of the connectors...
At the OBD2 connector I have only cabels number 9, 16, 5... So it seems that is is not real OBD2

The colors of the other 2 connectors - please see the picture:
   

   

What I should do now to make the DTC check ?

Do I need to Jumper 2 to 4 pins on connector 1 and see the CEL for the DTC?

Or I need to Jumper the pin with black wire to diagonal pin on connector 2 ?

[fixkick]

Hello
So I looked at the cables of the connectors...
At the OBD2 connector I have only pins number 9, 16, 5... So it seems that is is not real OBD2
some 1997 countries have OBD2 but you must use, and adapter.
need colors of wire to do that
16 must be 12vdc power. key on?
5 must be black ground and 5 is ground on all obd2 systems.
9 would be serial data. what colors are the 3 pins.
some 97 world wide have OBD1.5 )with adapter makes obd2, and flash codes too. a dual system, not seen here.
pin 9 can be ALDL serial, works only with TECH1 or TECH 2 scanners. not home style.

i'd avoid connector 2, (i will study the colors later for you today) brown and gray? ill look up .

The colors of the other 2 connectors - please see the picture:




What I should do now to make the DTC check ?

Do I need to Jumper 2 to 4 pins on connector 1 and see the CEL for the DTC? YES> jump black = ground to yellow-blue (diag) pins and get flash codes.

Or I need to Jumper the pin with black wire to diagonal pin on connector 2 ?

this will work use colors, only to jump. and win.
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/CAL-car-diag2.gif


brown has some special purpose..?? curious...

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i think brown is tachometer spark signal, weak.
for using tachometer under hood.
gray not sure, yet

[SrgBog]

Thank you !! I'll do it and will update !

[SrgBog]

Just did the DTC check - all looks good...
No key - CEL not flashing
key ON - code 12
driving - code 12

It makes me think that the CAT converter is badly clogged
because the wierd sound when I driving comes from the buttom part
of the car...
Or maybe the spark plug cabels are bad...

[fixkick]

good, to know now, that and ECU not in limphome mode. (the ecu can get lost)
the cat tests is easy.
use a standard, shop vacuum gauge. most the good onces have a CARB fuel pressure, side.
this side does 0 to 15PSI accurately
sold in all stores here. usa, see right side scale here, 15kPa max? is 2psi.
http://www.fixkick.com/tools/vactool1.jpg

remove the O2 (best is a new one after 100k miles)
start engine and check pressure,at 2500 rpm (FSM Spec) and must be less that, what it said on my cat test page. FSM States: 2.8 psi max 2500 RPM max. at 02 bung fitting.?
newer Suzuki books 1999+ state 2PSI max.
same too can do vacuum and see it go crazy with bad cat.(melted)

low engine power has 3 factors. (#2 you dont have)
1: low engine compression, (cam belt slipped.) or cat clogged.
2: cant be EGR you dont have one. market 56.
3: bad spark , timed wrong or weak spark and engine misfires. does it? this is a key step a mech. checks first.. felt or heard misfiring... (a fix first symptom)
4: fueling bad (huge list if checks starting with fuel pressure and FPR tests. ECU inputs wrong. next.

one easy test for fueling, is what is your MAF output at keyon, idle and gunned.??????? per my MAF page (fsm and my live dynamic testing)


easy tests. ?
drive car, get it hot, stop in your drive way /garage, remove spark plug #1 (easy one) is it black on the ends, if yes, are all 4 black? (ever try a new 02?)
MAF.
cat back pressure. test pass?
ECT read 300 ohms hot.?
cylinder compression over 150psi? x4.?
FPR vacuum nipple dripping fuel. (fpr bad , 1second test)?
fuel pressure at spec.? (my pump page)
FPR 3 point pressure tests? pass? key on 3 times test, the idle test , then W.O.T? test (PSI tests)
Injector leak down test pass? (super easy) key on 3 time, then off and count drop rate... super easy, with the tool.

NOT SO: (easy)
and last the most hard test of all. injector balance testing. covered in FSM and my injector page.



ECU not in limphome mode
but it it can get lost with wrong inputs
one example is why too high fuel pressure or bad 02 or any exhaust leaks near the 02.
the ECU gets lost, its trying to get STOICH, AFR, fuel mix but can't and sticks rich.
on pre OBD2 cars, they stick richer,,,when lost.
the old ECU's only report, dead sensors.
so if inputs to ecu are not dead, but still dead wrong, then NO DTC are set. (case in point a weak,MAF, but is not dead, engine goes lean and bogs, and huge loss of power)
but fueling rates are wrong, non the less.
can bog? lean.
or misfire, rich, id have to drive to to tell the difference there.

hope that helps...!!!

[SrgBog]

THANK YOU!
Just checked the OBD2 wires,
The wire colors on the OBD2 is:
5 - black
9 - brown with white line
16 - black wih white line

[SrgBog]

By the way :
Please look at my attached picture...

Isn't it the EGR over there ?
This part is just behind my engine...

   

   

Also I just wanted to put your attention that on the previus message you wrote "cant be EGR you dont have one. market 56" - but on the message after I sent the body tag you wrote "market code 54 is Israel" - so maybe my car EGR after all ?