Greetings..and..Transmission

[GeoHacker]

bell off, ? and rear extension off?
guess the rear 4wd adapter is stuck>? (the word rear helps me greatly)

Yes, I am meaning the rear 4wd adapter, sorry for any confusion. In some you tubes, others call it the spacer case. Transfer case came off easy enough, given the gunk on the splines, only had to wiggle it some as I backed it off, but separation was cake!

Here's my current status.






Yeah, i saw your story on "Dremel Spline Monster". That was inventive I guess if not having correct parts available, but sure set you up for a big mess, didn't it? I am pretty sure this car was bought from the original owner, but not sure if was towed behind RV or driven hard in snow (was in Washington state much of its life)

[fixkick]

great way to go !!!! and no damage.... it goes back together much more easy.
that RTV , is prove others have been there before, there is no RTV in this box, new. zero.
hey both center seals were good. no oil in center, great, implies bearing not pounding them to death(bad loose bearings)
all a good sign.!
looking good !
cheers

[GeoHacker]

great way to go !!!! and no damage.... it goes back together much more easy.
that RTV , is prove others have been there before, there is no RTV in this box, new. zero.
hey both center seals were good. no oil in center, great, implies bearing not pounding them to death(bad loose bearings)
all a good sign.!
looking good !
cheers

Thanks. The transmission case split easily! I just put a 3/8" socket extension into a recess in the splitting zone area to rear (passenger side rear of it), and rotated, it's a perfect fit for an extension

[fixkick]

that bearing is bad. no bearings are allowed to make noise unless dry.
as is the front pilot shaft bearing.
all good news, (not something unknown....)
great no bluing

next is measure and document the magic gap. with feeler gauges.
we must do that because we do not have the magic tool from Suzuki that plants the bearing exactly to that magic gap.

i think this is a good box.. looks good anyway.
just needs new bearings.

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if it shifted ok, then the synchro's are ok
but check the sychro gap next.

as they wear, (brass (aka,,yellow metal) the gap narrows, when it gets too narrow the rings are END OF LIFE.
ps: i dont dismantle the blocker hubs. 37/38/39
I soak them in paint thinner. and then inspect them as an assembly.. (if something looks odd, then take them down) watch for flying parts.

http://www.fixkick.com/tranny/5thGear.JPG

[GeoHacker]

that bearing is bad. no bearings are allowed to make noise unless dry.

next is measure and document the magic gap. with feeler gauges.

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if it shifted ok, then the synchro's are ok
but check the sychro gap next.

Thanks for the checkpoints and suggestions.

I can spin that bearing fast as I can, and though it is not totally filled with oil I guess due to draining, it makes a racket that it clearly should not. The output shaft bearing is quiet. So, if the needle bearing is still good for 5th, I would hope that might explain my banshee wail when that area was loaded more.

My gap is tight there at main bearing land, a .005 won't even go in between either side of it. So either I'm poking it in the wrong location, or I'll have to pick up a more precise feeler set.

The rebuild kit came with the 5 syncros, so I was planning to replace all of them. Only shifting problems I ever had was that first was occasionally hard to get into when stopped, you'd have to go into reverse a little, or ease it in (might have been clutch not disengaging fully). Sometimes reverse grinded going in, but possible I was too fast on the action.

The sycros look rather better than I expected for all the noise I've heard from them over the years and blowing a shift here and there. But the thing shifts every time reliably in general, no popping out of gear. Last time I took it for inspection though, first shifted different after (a little harder), like they forced it into first instead of doing my trick.

Setting up my official take-apart table now.

[fixkick]

that gap , is check by prying the gears on the main shaft, so that ,that gap is max, then measured with any feeler gauge.
on reAssembly, (no $300 suzuki magic tool, and unobtainium status) then we use a press or (light hammer taps) to get this found gap at end if main assembly.

if stopped the 1st issues is 100% clutch drag... after all the input to 1st syncho is stalled. so.. cant be it. (as is both sides... are stalled and the 1st synchro as no job here)
the clutch drag , makes the 1st syncro, not work. because the input turns and the output is stall, and it will baulk)

the synchro's job it to get the rear syncrho, speed, matched to front, by spinning up the front for a speed match them, if the clutch drags, it cant to do that....

the clutch cables love to jam inside. and cause this.... always buy a new cable if the clutch ever drags... first. $25 and 1hr work.
they go bad inside, where no human can see....
that gap:
the magic tool, forms pocket, so when the bearings are pressed on, at that step the magic tool bottoms out and the gap is at spec. "yes magic of factor tools" LoL
we cant do that. we measure it first and then get it right, at assembly.

what I do , is use pipe that fits to boss center, on the bearing at hand... never press the outer rim of a bearing.. only the center....
then tap the bearing on, (or use a press for 90% on) then hand tap it , to the MAGIC gap.
there are no other ways... (or very expensive tools sure..)

the synchro gaps are in the book, see them yet?
this tells you how worn the cones are, brass......
the gears have dogs, the syncrhos job is to keep the dogs, safe, and long life..... they match the speeds and the dogs dont get wrecked. (smashed flat)

your box is totally rebuild-able.
just dont forget those 2 hidden locking balls....
the gears and bearings off 1 by 1, never as a set.
and put all parts on a broom handle , all parts are polarized....!!!! even washers, are.... never mix parts up or directions.....

[GeoHacker]

that gap , is check by prying the gears on the main shaft, so that ,that gap is max, then measured with any feeler gauge.
on reAssembly, (no $300 suzuki magic tool, and unobtainium status) then we use a press or (light hammer taps) to get this found gap at end if main assembly.

that gap:
the magic tool, forms pocket, so when the bearings are pressed on, at that step the magic tool bottoms out and the gap is at spec. "yes magic of factor tools" LoL
we cant do that. we measure it first and then get it right, at assembly.

the gears and bearings off 1 by 1, never as a set.
and put all parts on a broom handle , all parts are polarized....!!!! even washers, are.... never mix parts up or directions.....

I read about the washers and stuff being certain sided. I have my dowel ready.

How loose is 5th gear on main shaft (top shaft) supposed to be, as to sliding left or right? There's a washer there behind the bearing, and then 5th.

Just wondering how things get to be right where they should be, if it's like stacking metal pancakes (other than main bearing), and they have some leeway. Some seem to have that round clip to show just right location?

Wondering (like others have, I see)

[fixkick]

both open is not good in many places.
all the internal bearings are open.
the front is sealed, on mine.
the rear main is open and has a case seal in the rear mid section.
and the rear mid has a rubber plug. seen here.
the other bearings are open and the directions are fixed due to the circum. snap rings.

i think ("?) the front bearing (pilot) is sealed because of the lack of proper lube at idle in neutral; my best guess....
the front cluster bearing is open.

5th?
the rear cluster 5th is loose.?
with the rear case removed its now just held by the cluster spline and that is not too strong. like that.
check the fit on that spine to gear 35.
and with 35 off feel the play in rear of cluster.? bearing 29 play.
or is this play in gear 23? top. that has a pin roller cage bearing 23???

the front top seal is controversial. lots of opinions, all ways. (rear side, is, front side is a must)
i think that is the only bearing that is confusing...
i guess the double seal (perm greased) is best in cold weather, when fluid is low ? and may run better? clearly there are both kinds, 1 seal and 2 seal front top. IN use.
i do know the top rear bearing does get damage from towing car, too far.... it cant get proper lube with engine not running.
but the front cluster spins full time and it's mate the gear on rear of input pinion spins, seems that would get plenty of lube there at idle..

on mine the lube can also pass thru the front cluster bearing (its half full of lube), and up the front cover. to the front of the top pilot bearing. it all open there.
so seal #6 must work in all cases. So the issue is only idle lube top front.... IMO.

i think most builders told me , both work find, front top 1 seal, and 2 seal. (even no seal) due to seal 6

[GeoHacker]

5th?
the rear cluster 5th is loose.?
with the rear case removed its now just held by the cluster spline and that is not too strong. like that.
check the fit on that spine to gear 35.
and with 35 off feel the play in rear of cluster.? bearing 29 play.
or is this play in gear 23? top. that has a pin roller cage bearing 23???

Thanks for tips.

Fixed gear 5th, # 35 (on spline, lower countershaft) slides back and forth easily between reverse gear 52 and the bearing 31, about 1 mm. Won't need a puller for that I guess.

23, 42, 44 will each slide a little left-right on main shaft left and right, 23 will move left right about 1 to 1.5mm, toward syncro or towards washer 25.

I have the main shaft assembly out of the case at this point.

23 (5th) spins nice, feels ok so far though, like that needle bearing 24 is still good. (be nice if it is, since money is tight)

I will ponder the sealed bearings. If idle lube is a problem, I can get drift brakes installed up front, rev up, and drop the clutch at stop lights to keep things lubed. Though I would guess smoking at stoplights like that would be frowned upon. Make a nice YouTube though.

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Fixed gear 5th, # 35 (on spline, lower countershaft) slides back and forth easily between reverse gear 52 and the bearing 31, about 1 mm. Won't need a puller for that I guess.

35 also rotates a little bit CW/CCW on the splines if you apply rotary force to it while holding the rest of the shaft immobile, such seems not-optimal. (0.5mm)

There a secret to the removal of the springy retaining rings at shaft ends? The manual shows crossed screwdrivers but that hasn't worked here (yet).

[GeoHacker]

There a secret to the removal of the springy retaining rings at shaft ends? The manual shows crossed screwdrivers but that hasn't worked here (yet).

32 is the one driving me crazy. The opposite end one, 28, came right off.

It is like it's pressed between the bearing race and the ring slot too hard, as if the bearing wasn't seated down far enough before the circlip was stuck in.

The one on the opposite end had 2 sides of equal hooking points that my specially ground long nose could get at.

32 seems damaged by prior installer or something. It has one flat side, and one that's like the ends of 28 , more pointed (so you can leverage it a little) Not identical. I worry I'm killing the shaft or some bearing race (30) with the rubber hammer pushing at the screwdrivers.

Maybe I should Dremel the thing from the other side.