Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch

[zukitrek]

Hello sir.
Well some smoke came from the combo switch and somehow this affected the shift lever lock mechanism. I disassembled the whole combo switch and nothing looked burnt or melted. This is in addition to the no crank issues which have been on and off and it has been my bad for not checking the wires at the battery (at least the negative, cause positive along with terminal had been replace well before this). I ended up removing the turn signals fuse and removing completely the shift lock solenoid (is this bad?). My question is where would that black wire from the combo end near the fuse box. I know this from a old post I saw (I think it was you) which they tell the person to look for this when turn signals are acting up.

Thanks for your help.

J

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anything electric that overloads, can fail , weaken or have lower service life.
the bulbs can short.
so the right front blinks perfectly (or dimly) and the RR is dead, dim or what.

LF ok
LR ok
RR what? dead or dim?
RF what?

seems if only RR is bad, then RR is shorted. but is it dim or dread. dime would be shorted and out would be bad lamp or wire cuts. or corrosion in the socket.

this system is super simple system, no computers behind the tails lamps and all that complexity.
just a bulb, a socket and a wire.
100years same thing simple.

the fuse many not blow in an overload
that is because the blinker module, cuts current in 1/2 , flash, out, flash out. 1/2.
and it also limits current.'
and is designed to act odd under overloads.
and the cheap weak suzuki wiring, will act as a current limit, (small copper gauge)

the right side is wired in PARALLEL. so any short on that side, causes and overload. front or rear, or between.
any open on that line will only effect that end of car.
fixkick
click above for , lots of diagnosis and repair data !Idea
[quote='zukitrek' pid='2870' dateline='1414366641']
KIk, I have put the 15a fuse back and turn signal still don't work. I disassembled the combo switch after the smoke event to see if anything was burnt (none was) and when assembling back the hazard connector was left out, Does this has to do with turn signals not working? Now none of the signals work, rear or front.

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Update, Fix. All wire/cables coming to battery are inspected clean and in good shape, only the alternator wire that goes into under the hood fuse box was bad but now has been repaired.
The black wire at the combo switch looks Ok and not burnt from what I could see (too many wires going everywhere)

J

[zukitrek]

ah here is,, was...... thanks.

1 do all 5 lamps fail 4 corners and the dash cluster lamp? left and right? are some dim, ?
NONE work nor the dash lights for either side
2 do hazards fail. i wish youd answer this.??? and not having this fact makes diagnosis super hard due to the redundant common path.
No Fix, none work nor the dash lights indicating when signals are selected. When I reassembled the combo switch back I left the hazard button out by mistake. Maybe I have to disassemble and put back in order to do proper testing.
3 are some lights glowing dim, in the dark? blinking or NOT?
none
4 if you remove all 4 corners of lamps, but 1, remaining, does it work right by itself ( best is a brand new lamp here now,, they DO SHORT)[/b]
have not tried that yet


the best way to fix blinkers is to have only 1 brand new bulb in the system ..'
then try it in all positions.
next we do meter checks. all this is easy with 1 needle probe.
any volt meter works , any , analog or digital. 20vdc range.

more facts, on blinks. all help.
1: dim bulbs at any time, are there?
2: the blinker modul will act up , if overloaded, by design tell the driver your lights are bad. or shorted.
3: the blinker module will not click or flash if the power pin is dead, the ground pin is dead, or the lamp loads are dead. (no lamps)
4; if any lamp is shorted on the hazard mode, it too will fail.

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now i will try to address this.
"My question is where would that black wire, from the combo end, near? the fuse box."

what does that mean?, what back wire connected to what connector, be specfic. we have a full drawing there. all black wires are clearly shown in the PDF.
That is the ground wire you mentioned in the other thread that is a common ground in the combo switch

the only combo black ground wire is G200 ground that makes the head lights work. the turns use switched hot, NOT GROUND.
but the blinker module sure does use a black ground wire.
and uses the same dash body G200 ground terminus point.
if you CUT G200 you will lose vast things, in car. huge. For SURE dead headlights.
Headlight are OK as well as high beam

Hope this help.

J

[zukitrek]

Oh my I guess Ill be suiting up for an intense electronic troubleshoot dive, and a deep one!! This is my achilles heel (electronics), but I'll give it a shot.

J

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BTW the signals don't blink at all now.

[zukitrek]

Thank you sir. Will try to begin testing tonight. Wife needs the signals soon.

J

[zukitrek]

This is how the combo switch connectors looked like when taken apart.

   

J

[zukitrek]

I this was 2 weeks ago. I learned the hard way. I was lucky enough to not lose the tiny springs and balls. But I have to disassemble it to put back the Hazard button. Everything looked ok, no burns, cracks?
Ohh yes, now I remember, one contact was missing some metal, there was a hole in it from friction? Maybe the culprit? I'll will disassemble tonight I take new pics. I'll keep you posted.

J

[fixkick]

buff it out
the new switch had dielectric grease inside,
and when overloaded they smoke, this does not mean it's wasted as you can see the contracts are not melted, or the plastic black or warped.
the fuse is 15amps.
and is heavy
the lamps are no more than 2 x 4 amps, or 8 amps total. about 1/2 the fuse rating.
if the RR lamp (farthest) shorts it many not blow the fuse. it my just smoke the blinker contracts.
if the connectors are old and rusty, this is common,

so get one lamp to work? pick a corner. and make one blinker work, all other corners removed. ( divide and conquer?)
at the most , only one side of car needs to be fixed. so is just 2 lamps.
pick lift side.
try one lamp only at left rear, (omg, the wires are hacked there. for trail lights?) so common this is crying towel time, i look there day 1)

my guess is the blinker module s bad. (or not really connected or backwards?)

the blinker can be tested in car .
remove all 4 corner blinker lights ( i do that because they short so easy, x10 more easy for china imported carp lamps too)
then using a test lamp
a 12v light on 2 wires.
i connect the lamp from ground, to the output (green) of the blinker module.
i key on and it must blink.
if not the power pin is dead to the blinker
or ground is cut.

if say the power pin is dead that means the combo switch failed to send power to the blinker module
so turn on hazards, this sends a new power source to the blinker module, does that fix it?
this is all first. not ripping parts apart, be shame to wreck a $150 combo for $5 blinker, sure would.

use a volt meter, its not hard at all.
its harmless to you and car when using volts mode..

[zukitrek]

Yes I know, the thing is that I left the hazard button out when reassembling. ( Now I have to put it back sometime?

J

[fixkick]

connect the meter Black NEG lead to body ground (shiny metal not plastic or non steel parts)

not really, if you measure 2 pins on the combo, you only need one working power feed, TURNS fuse
so if the turns pin is 12vdc key on? then that pin is a GO.
see the blinker module? see pin 3? see those colors?
yellow-white must be 12vdc, keyon, is it? this is real easy to do, just $10 voltmeter,
is pin 1 0 volts zero? now?
now check pin2 is the relay clicking or meter jogging from 0v to 12v over and over.
no?
then attach any lamp to pin 2,
this lamp must flash, if not the flasher is toasted.
the acid test would be to unplug the green wire some way then use test light on pin 2, it must flash or the flasher module is bad.
we do that way before ripping stuff apart , not withstanding all wires checked for damage at all 4 corners of car (collision ) and the trailer wire hack jobs.




here, i cut the center of of page 3 if the afor full wiring diagram.

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the red light bulb is any 12vdc lamp or store bough test lamp. (non led type)
pin1 is G200 body ground and is 0v all the time.

this be test one.
if this test passes. we work the other end.

my guess is the green wire is dead.
or the combo switch is 100 % dead.
if green is good
and pin 2 aND 12 ON THE combo fail test light checks , the combo is bad. at the L/R contact set.
if pin 3 is dead then the switch on the right of the combo is dead. or yellow wire is dead, keyon. or fuse blown

you do know that fuses that look ok, can in fact be bad. right?

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my test plan above only assumes both the left and right side of car are not shorted.
that be rare. and can be proven.

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this tool is sold in every auto store on earth

http://www.amazon.com/ATD-5513-Heavy-Dut...automotive

or one just like it. all shops need this tool.

[zukitrek]

Sir Fix. just finished back probing the pins you indicated in the wiring diagram. Yellow wire from turn fuse has 12v with key on all the way until combo switch. Yel/white and green wire going into de hazard turn relay have no volts. Black is also no volts with key on. At least in my harness going into the combo switch there is no yel/green/ There is a Green/yell which I tested and has no volts. Are we looking for a bad relay? I totally forgot about these relays. Hope you can make something out of this. Still have not done the good/new bulb test on the turn signals to isolate problem (civic has been keeping me busy lately) anyways let me know what your thoughts are about this. Here is the pic of my harness going into the combo switch.

   

   


As you can see there is no yellow/green going into the combo like in the diagram?

Regards!!!