x-90 P0335 code

[fixkick]

the exhaust crack at the manifold , makes the front 02 sensor read wrong. and goes , rich, even misfiring , that rich.
02 stuck lean, causes fuel trim to stick full rich.
as expected lots of problems not just ckp flaky.. old cars , never seen one ever with 1 thing wrong, (talking important things wrong)

[CSUSBgeochem1]

Wanted to get back to you kick! So the 16v 1.6l exhaust manifold might as well be gold right now here in CA. Visual inspection is tight for anything not stock. Going with a Doug Thorley header just to have one to slap on the sidekick (only a $50 difference from other non cali legal headers) and take the good manifold off that and use it for testing ONLY. The cracked manifold on the x-90 ill attempt to weld back up. I hope im successful (just so i have that manifold to run on it when not being smog tested).

I was able to get an analog oscilloscope cheap! $50!

   

Even came with selectable 1x/10x probe at 100mHz capability! So i should get a nice view of what is going on between both of those sensors. I needs to be calibrated so i will get back to you on that. Need to figure out a way of building or buying a function generator to go with it so i can study the waveforms personally. Just wanted to report back. i will send you pictures of what i get. Not sure how to data log on this unit at the moment but im sure there is a way.

[fixkick]

yes the manafolds are a pain the stock 16v are thin and love to crack. yes be nicer with the Thorley... steel weld rear easy , unlike cast iron.
holy mackerel that is very nice scope,, $50 is free in scope world, wow. what a deal.
it many not need calibration, bet the HORZ is dead on, for all your needs and vertical too, use the cope on some batteries, 1.5, 3v and 9v. and car battery.
use a dmm meter to see what it is first (a battery) then scope it , DC mode, I bet it is scary close, as all tek scope are.

thanks for sharing,,, and the photos of a great scope.

[CSUSBgeochem1]

Update; Well the manifold did smooth out the idle a bit and it actually idles nice now. Still throwing the code. I have the freeze frame data but my scanner does not have pending codes option.

DTCFRZF P0335
FUELSYSA OL
FUELSYSB- --
LOAD_PCT(%) 18.8
ECT© 85
SHRTFT1(%) 0.0
LONGFT1(%) -.08
MAP(kPa) 34.0
RPM 1216
VSS(km/h) 0

[fixkick]

why is RPM 1216 on a hot engine,? or maybe you raced the engine, to 1200 with foot and 335 it?
nice freeze frame, we know now that 335 can HIT parked at 0 mph.

all scan tools worth salt have Pending button. all do. (but not really needed here, after all you got 335)
one of the beast ways to see errors before the OBD2 logs them to memory as DTC errors, stored.
many OBD2 errors do not store until 1, 2, 3 cold/hot/cold trips are done. so pendings is a KEY features. IMO

1: pan gasket illegal here.
2: bad wiring, to CKP
3: bad ecu.
sinse no scope to monitor this signal we can not know if the signal goes dead, or is just weak.
it is an analog signal (coil), (not hall digital) so weak happens.

why not try a new SMP sensor , in the hope it is more SENSITIVE.

[CSUSBgeochem1]

I have yet to hook the scope up to it as im still sourcing a function generator. I understand a few dc signals can give me a nice baseline but id really like to have something that generates sign and square waves so i can see how everything is working. I might just say the hell with it and hook it up just to see what the signal is doing but i cant be certian as to the precision of the measurements. Ill get back to you but im with you on everything.

[fixkick]

again precision is not important here,
take a battery measure it with a new or near new DDM . 1% spec. is easy.
say it reads 1.50 exactly (it wont but write it down).
then with the scope read the SAME battery see if it reads the same voltage. (IT WILL) proving your worry about 1v accuracy is not an issue. here. (it's not 3.3v logic chip thresholds)
we are not trying to resolve .001volt nor .01 , but only if its 1v or 1.1v signals. (100mV (.1v) accuracy is all that is needed if that.
your scope is 10x or more , more accurate than you need on any car and will never be off, by much, only might be off measuring say 10MV, and you never need to do that.
oK?
no gens needed use the real CKP or CMP signals they are real signals. no generators need but if you want to play buy or make a simple 10 cent 555 time IC circuit.
as done in all electronic schools week1.
or the scopes:

the scope has test jack calibrator , at 1khz. see that<? use it to get the probes compensated for nice locking square wave, it also shows see the scope works> in seconds.flat.

turn the red knobs on channel 1 and 2 to click (calib) stops. keep them there forever.

the CKP is a slow signal that any scope made 1970 up will work (not heath kit , EICO's or the like ,real scopes, like your tek, any solid state scope, HP, tek, philips, are all top grade and older ones dirt chip and very good))
the CKP signal will be about 1volt peak ,1000mV at idle and as RPM rises more. (faradays laws at work)
we dont care if its 1001, 1030MV, not at all, only that it is about 1000mV, (sorry but Suzuki did not spec, this out, and is a royal pain that) even the 335 page lacks this KEY fact of data. 1000mV (1v ) is what I guess to be Par for this CKP.



You many need to ground bust the scope so the ECU does not get upset on that ground lead of your probe. (differential probes are SUPER expensive)


your accuracy on this scope is +-3% , so 1v will reads 30Mv low or high, (1.030v or 9.970)volts, as you can see we never need this level of accuracy on any car.
but your DMM test above will prove its GOOD> in 5 minutes work. 1.5v battery is very near CKP signal levels. so.. is a perfect test. (scope switch set to DC)
the DMM is vastly more accurate, so use it to prove scope is OK , in painless and zero costs proof. in 5 minutes.
I designed and built my only calibrator in my lab, and has super high accuracy and cost me $20- to make and can calibrate any scope or meter with it.

even a dirt chip dmm new, is 1% , for $10 cost. (times change and accuracies are UP and cheap)


your scope manual is here.
http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/tek/2336ya/


happy hunting and ask questions, have lots of examples here, for sure how to ground bust a scope so the probe ground floats.

PS2:
the page is here, for CKP

https://web.archive.org/web/201011191114...t3-pdf.htm

the silly thing says check the signal the forgets to tell you what it must be at idle , at least.
but here is the shield I told you about on same pages.

[fixkick]

make sure g103 is not missing, this g103 is shown in the manual in chapters covering all harnesses of the 1996, ever inch is covered. well harness views. that is and all grounds have name.
and this one tops list of CKP fails only parked.
IMG my web page covers G103 , here. the most important ground for ECU is here. that CKP shield works its way to HERE,. look for broken wires, or bad crops here or loose bolt or rust.
(rust means any kind or form of corrosion in my personal rules)
http://www.fixkick.com/my96-16v/ECU-ground1.jpg

park is low RPM and low RPM means lowest signals. and with low signals, (any) noise is now an issue, the shield stops the ingress of noise (inductive) and harnesses on cars are noise makers all cars they are, not just this car.
or a bad alternator, is a huge powerful noise generators. some are horrible, I can demonstrate this, and then there is ignition noise.
so the ECU designer, used shielded cable, in fact the best cable is 2 conductor twisted pair shielded and grounded at one and not both ends.

too bad I sold my 96 , for you I'd do CKP test, and then with all things perfect and logged signals (photos) Id then stand off the CKP with card board spacers or milk carton plastic
making a gasket like stand off, and start at 1/16" then 1/8th inch and log the drop in signal.
the problem is there are like 5 CKP sensors made suzuki and many aftermarket even crap china no name junk. all with different Characteristics.

id check the G103 ground then scope the CKP output signals. (please forget calibration you are not doing 10mV work here or 30 or even 100mV work)

id ground bust the scope AC line jack and not let the scope ground out either of those 2 ecu pins above.
the scope probe black short clip is ground and is not just common the silly thing is EARTH safety grounded, (the scope is not double insulated so this is done NEC rules)
This is very dangerous work on say 1/2 the electrical and electronic equipment.
if you ground out many circuits you blow them up. (scope 101 here ok)
so we use this. thing a tech.calls a ground buster.

on a modern scope like yours if clean inside, is not going to put HV on the case but if you wanted you could check the scope out first. (I always do)
see if the floating the ground pin you create (busted) , if the scopes ground shows any DC or AC voltages. say connected to a 10meg ohm input DMM (DC the AC scales) in crude home DIY highpot test.
this is why car shops like battery powered scopes but we can use any scope. (no tubes scopes ever with 600vdc and 5kv inside) Your scope is very good. btw.
as seen here , the buster is here, $1

https://www.elliottelectronicsupply.com/...uster.html


keep in mind a real differential probe will set you back say $500 , and really is my TOPIC here.
if really paranoid (it's ok) , use a GFI wall jack for your scope, really all garages should have this GFI> mine does, and if not it would be installed by me day1.

here is the proof it works (GFI , is more advanced today even more choices of how well it works) like what if 2 wire electric drill gets wet (inside ) and you want protection (BINGO)
http://communities.leviton.com/thread/1080

[CSUSBgeochem1]

Hey kick sorry it took so long to get back to you i had a few stints in jail in a few states to get all of my old tickets taken care of. now im free of all old tickets in any state.  Was able to probe the car.  G103 WAS in fact missing but adding a 6 gauge wire there to the negative terminal of the battery did not fix the sensor.  It starts better now though.

I have included a few pictures you can use on your website if you would like.  The first picture is the wave form of the CKP at the sensor. Scope was set at 1v/div, AC coupled at the vertical and trigger. I will also show the sensor at the computer and show there is a bubble or some sort of interference piggy backing on the signal.  I assume this is a grounding issue which is why i went on to clean all engine grounds. This led me to find the missing G103.  

My ground buster

   

[CSUSBgeochem1]

signal from old sensor that was shaved down for closer tolerance.  the waveform was stable after I adjusted the settings and trigger levels.