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+--- Thread: condenser type? (/thread-condenser-type)
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condenser type? - Vitalie - 06-13-2015
So I am tackling the AC system. I am replacing the compressor, dryer, evaporator, expansion valve, new o-rings.
I wanted to change the condenser too but all the parts store have it wrong and don't have my design even they say they do it dose not fit. I returned 2 already.
now I desided to flush it and looks like I am pushing the flush prity easy thru the condenser.
My questions is this condeser paralel flow or not? Can't find this anywhere.
Tracker 98 4door manual.
Thanks.
RE: condenser type? - fixkick - 06-13-2015
ugh ! im not sure, id have to see it. most you can tell by the ends, how its fitted up.
good luck getting it to go... nice project.
RE: condenser type? - Vitalie - 06-15-2015
(06-13-2015, 06:59 AM)fixkick Wrote: ugh ! im not sure, id have to see it. most you can tell by the ends, how its fitted up.
good luck getting it to go... nice project.
To answer my own question. A closer look to the ports and you can see multichannel passages. so it is a parallel flow condenser. Now I am getting more hesitant putting it back as they recommend changing it.
By the I found my condenser on rockauto in Suzuki Sidekick, it is missing in geo/chevy trackers.
As o matter of fact the "new" compressor that I ordered turn to have a bunch of debris of metal shavings and junk in it after I check the oil. It is going back to the store. By the manufacturer it is required to have a clean system for it not to fail and to warranty it.
So the project is on hold till I am confident my system is a clean as I can get it.
You actually don't have to take the whole dashboard to get to the evaporator. only if you want to to get to the heater core. other than that I took the blower case first. those upper bolts are a PITA to take off as they are right behind the bar so you will be using a wobble socket. also you get the air bag off, not big deal but just the angle to work is real pain.
RE: condenser type? - Vitalie - 06-17-2015
New problem is the refrigerant oil.
On the Chevy Trackers 3.5 oz of PAG 150
http://www.techchoiceparts.com/refrigerant-and-oil-capacities/chevrolet-light-truck
On Suzuki sidekick is 6oz PAG 46
http://www.techchoiceparts.com/refrigerant-and-oil-capacities/suzuki
so try to figure out why is this difference.
could it be that the 2 door takes less oil as even the condenser is different than the 4 door.
but then the viscosity is also different.
by the way I had to find condenser only looking for sidekick as the tracker search was without results.
so I tend towards the sidekick specs as mine is 4 door.
If you guys know exactly what oil and capacity for my car would appreciate a lot.
Thanks
RE: condenser type? - fixkick - 06-17-2015
THE FSM COVERS ALL THIS..
You must use the R134 oil, or the the kind that mixes with old. who knows whats there.?
but the procedures, are the same flush the system.
the R134 is by the pound and not the oz volume (or oz. weight, 16oz per pound)
but the chart shows the pressure to reach, by temperature and humidity, at the end point (top off)
the oil is not different from 2 door 4 door cars, the same parts fit on car, totally.
the usa cars are made in CAMI and side by side, tracker and kick. there are no differences, of major points. (trim, tags, and stuff)
why not read the fsm for the 1996, see how much. its free book, and not read web sites full of errors. many are...
pag 150 3.5oz
fsm 1996, page 1b29 states 3.4 oz, so is close.
and states. 1.32 lbs of R134a. (no doors mentioned or expected) so 1.32 x 16 = 21 oz, weight of R134. (then adjust per temp chart)
ther real book is here
http://www.acksfaq.com/96-FSM-v1-1b-pdf.htm
i dont have sidekick , r134 and page spec... sorry. just trackers.
but should be same, if made in cami.
some 1998 were made in japan actual in 1998 for Cami shut down for refit.. whats in those cars, is a wonder.
RE: condenser type? - Vitalie - 06-17-2015
I did check the FSM. But it was mentioned before that the GM manuals are full of errors especially when comes to torque specs that's why the suspicion.
Also all the parts store witch could be wrong too gave me the same diffrent thing.
Depends who you believe.
I will follow my FSM as advised.
Thanks
RE: condenser type? - fixkick - 06-17-2015
yes, the 96 fsm by GM is full of errors.. but if you look carefully they are clearly wrong, wrong distributor, wrong usage of foot pounds for inch lbs/ and clearly 100 foot lbs is hopeless on any 6mm bolt. GM also deleted things, like the RTV in the side of rear brake backing plats. oops.... a whole step skipped, and will FAIL.
the store book rags are horrid. they mix 10 year, up, that is a hopeless cases, (but for some better than nothing)
now we go online data.. they too, they fail to read all 10 years of books, to see the truth. (it gets better in time online, unlike the rag books in autostores)
there are no pdf.s of these old cars, by Suzuki, or GM just 1, by one man-scan , (on 1996). so all we really have is alldata.com , to see or buy rare used suzuki fam from ebay..... long wait that.
the 1998 fsm by GM i think gets all this correct. (rare to find one)
did you try alldata.com
ill do a USA factorial on 96 -98 on A.C parts to see if there is variances... (pipes, pumps ,etc, but Ill have to tell you right off, many cars had 2 pumps used, and the R134a varies, just by that.)
in this case the PAG oil might vary too....
keep in mind, in 1989 tp 1998 the a/c is and addon system. with harness. totally separate.... in the factory... and can be substituted easy depending on factory suppliers.
just like , tires, windows, belts, hoses and shocks.
(low bidders. factory strikes? etc, can dictate what system is really there...)
really is the pag that matters most... as you can adjust freon ,up or down , using the special charts in the FSM..
the pag must match the compressor. make.
ok, im in the Suzuki EPC catalog.,... now...
there are at least 4 compressors used, N.America markets
1: CAMI versions. (canada assembly plant)
2: Japan verson. ( was this used during the above CAMI shut down in 1998?)
3: Canada E28 version. marketed to Canada only , to canada laws.
4: Puerto rico. E60 market.
these are all facts, and are on the extreme of complex.....
who to believe, surely not me,,, i can only offer "facts of variation" a pro shop might gander at your compressor and go, gee 'all wrong here in this book on that compr.
id read the compressor name and model and contact the makers of it, see if they have guide lines, (they do) on volume of R134a to Pag ratios.
also the PAG makers have this data, seen it. read the makers of the PAG , see they have a chart with volume of R134a to Pag ratios.
they do.... cheers and good luck, i hope you can find the truth in your case. and if you do please share it.....
the 96 book is full of errors due to the major USA EPA mandated changes (OBD2,) (chair kicked from under you trick)
so GM instead of translating the Suzuki 96 book.
you can clearly see they, took the GEO 95 book and attempted to hack in the 96 changes,,, it was a cheap fast attempt.... i can see this clearly.... looking at 2 GM books and the suzuki books side by side.
and in doing so, left in 8v TBI photos' for and engine now illegal here in uSA< (EPA rules again) oops....
the 96 book is full of early year marked photo;s, (wrong) 94-95' oops...
Nippon Denso , compressor?
more>?
there is a 4door and 2door, condenser. I have suzuk p/n for all if this is needed. ask.
diffr. Suction hose and discharge hose.
diffr, harness.
but not diffr, receiver drier.
same expansion valve.
same evap. core.
off EPC, CAT hope that helps.
and some of these changes sure can effect R134a Volumn, and PAG ratios.
RE: condenser type? - Vitalie - 06-29-2015
So after changing all the parts and the orings and putting back together the system dosnt hold vacuum.
So it's leaking and it's driving me crazy. My wife almost fired me after spending so much with no results
I might need a different color dye as it has residue of the green from previous.
Not Sure what else can I do now.
RE: condenser type? - fixkick - 06-29-2015
finding leaks is not easy.
the pros have a tool that finds them, sniffs them.
http://www.amazon.com/Refrigerant-Halogen-Freon-Detector-R410a/dp/B008YPTFHC
RE: condenser type? - Vitalie - 07-01-2015
The only positive thing of ac not working I get almost 400 miles per tank normal driving 50/50. I have replaced the thermostat with the 195' stant thou.
That is almost 50 if not more miles I would usually get.