(04-16-2021, 07:39 AM)Matty_Robz Wrote: Im currently at work but Ill start replying in bits and pieces with the most important stuff i feel you want.

Donor car : 2002 Chev Tracker 2.0L. I was lucky enough to find the exact same model and year at the scrapyard as my truck.

If by  CKP you mean this   I did not remove remove it. I left the original one on the engine. I did switch flywheels though. The one from the wreckers got bent when I was trying to split it from the truck.  CKP is crank sensor.
OK no AERIO here, false lead.


All bad grounds were fixed. The started was the only one with a bad ground. I taped the rest of the ground up before painting the block. 

Both engines were identical so that rules out a lot of issues. I am aware of the differences in engines and platforms of the J20. I was originally planning on getting an aerio motor but after some research I found it was just easier finding a tracker. 

Cat is fine, I inspected it when I removed the engine. 

I believe plugs and coils are fine. I have a good known working set from my plow truck i will swap in to test. 

Tried using gas in the intake an no go.
Then I tried brake cleaner (non-chlorinated) and still no start. It wanted to but it didnt. I think plugs were wet at that point. 
this is wrong to use, some is fire proof,  now.  just like WD40 remove propane gas not it dont burn.

use real starting fluid or real gas. please.

Ill try cranking with my scan tool on again for 10 secs and see if it gets any codes. crank , and release key ,do not turn off for full minute , even push pending button on scan tool.
the book says 11 turns of crankshaft, no human can count to 11 at 300RPM, so 10 seconds, sure. do not want to miss P03xx codes of any kind.

Should I disconnect fuel pump fuse when i do this or leave it in? Dont want to flood the engine.
pull the fuel pump relay kills all pump actions and now zero fuel flows, no chance of folding and then use real; not fake test fuel. my gosh. do not use brake cleaner.
make the goal test fuel works as it should even hold throttle open a tad, for more air incase  ISC/IAC air flow devices are dead, the engine needs air to start too.
on my 2004 it had only 1 ISC valve did all idle air, and if dead none.

I believe its running to rich. You can smell fuel vapours in the air when it tries to start. 
then pull the fuel pump relay ending all fuell flow, and all flooding then crank wot.  the magic free unflood mode per users manual.
then when dry do test fuel use only real fuel (in spray can from autostore is best,) putting gasoline in old windex bottle melts its plastic and boom all bad there.



Have to go back to work. will reply with more info. Will be testing tonight.

My friend is coming over with his timing light and he is going to show me how to use it. He is a master tech for 20+ years, I just dont know how to set it without the DLC connector. I may have to buy a tech 1

you do not need any tech one ever. it is only a waste of time and huge cash outlay use a real OBD2 full scan tool with pending button.
the only time needed this is for ABS or for some years (2004) with no timing freeze DLC 2, under hood,.

(04-16-2021, 08:41 AM)fixkick Wrote:

(04-16-2021, 07:39 AM)Matty_Robz Wrote: Tried using gas in the intake an no go.
Then I tried brake cleaner (non-chlorinated) and still no start. It wanted to but it didnt. I think plugs were wet at that point. 
this is wrong to use, some is fire proof,  now.  just like WD40 remove propane gas not it dont burn.

use real starting fluid or real gas. please.

-I did try with gas last night and it was a no go. I do think the engine was flooded again because the plugs came out a little wet. WOT may have cleared the cyclinders, but plugs were still a little wet. 

I tried with propane quickly this morning and it made a few combustions, but did not actually start and stall out. 

Ill try cranking with my scan tool on again for 10 secs and see if it gets any codes. crank , and release key ,do not turn off for full minute , even push pending button on scan tool.
the book says 11 turns of crankshaft, no human can count to 11 at 300RPM, so 10 seconds, sure. do not want to miss P03xx codes of any kind.

I did this multiple times and its not throwing any codes.

Should I disconnect fuel pump fuse when i do this or leave it in? Dont want to flood the engine.
pull the fuel pump relay kills all pump actions and now zero fuel flows, no chance of folding and then use real; not fake test fuel. my gosh. do not use brake cleaner.
make the goal test fuel works as it should even hold throttle open a tad, for more air incase  ISC/IAC air flow devices are dead, the engine needs air to start too.
on my 2004 it had only 1 ISC valve did all idle air, and if dead none.

I tried to pull the fuse and crank it, but the engine light turns off without the fuel pump fuse in. I had to pull the fuse and disconnect the injector harness.

I believe its running to rich. You can smell fuel vapours in the air when it tries to start. 
then pull the fuel pump relay ending all fuell flow, and all flooding then crank wot.  the magic free unflood mode per users manual.
then when dry do test fuel use only real fuel (in spray can from autostore is best,) putting gasoline in old windex bottle melts its plastic and boom all bad there.

- I will go pick some up today after work. 


Have to go back to work. will reply with more info. Will be testing tonight.

My friend is coming over with his timing light and he is going to show me how to use it. He is a master tech for 20+ years, I just dont know how to set it without the DLC connector. I may have to buy a tech 1

you do not need any tech one ever. it is only a waste of time and huge cash outlay use a real OBD2 full scan tool with pending button.
the only time needed this is for ABS or for some years (2004) with no timing freeze DLC 2, under hood,.

I have a pretty good scanner MaxiDiag Elite MD802 ( I made it link to the webpage) It can do complete scans of all modules, EPB, Oil reset, ect. Only thing it cant do is program modules and special functions in some modules. I took a look into the live data in the ECM and found spark timing was set to 5 degrees no mater what when I was cranking. 


My compressor tester is currently missing. I lent it to someone and can't remember who I  lent it to. im going to pick up another one after work today with the starting fluid. I'm really hoping its no that... It did start and run for 20-30 mins when I first cranked it, it just sounded like fuel or timing was way off. 

Im thinking I may need to go find another engine at the wreckers... which I hope isnt the case. Its a pain in the ass trying to pull this engine there.


OHH I also split the exhaust manifold from the downpipe. Cat is basically brand new (2 yrs old) and nothing blocking it. Still honeycombs and cant see any blockage. I left it apart while I tried to crank it, but it didnt make much of a difference. 

if compression is good.  great
but if horrible no EFI on earth can run a dead engine, nor an carb.  199psi good 50 bad, my lawn mower does 100, my VWbug same, and my old outboard motor 100.
180 cold is my guess times 4 and let the needle peak, WOT ,just block open throttle , fuel pump relay never plugged tell spark test far below.
in school they teach do basics first that means make sure first the engine is good, viable. It must pump air.  
if cat melted or ISC valve stuck closed it will never pump air, ever.
then run on test fuel with fuel  pump relay still pulled.  (crank wot to dry it out)
if must run on test fuel  NOW, or spark is wrong.  all the power of spark in the world is useless timed wrong, or 1 or both CMP/CKP going wild.

I believe the issue is spark related. Double check the plugs, their gaped to 1.1mil as they should be.


make sure the CmP cam sensor is not the wrong one. ending in 65D00,   (left rear of cam) - Checked

the engine must not be flooded, per above and how to remove flooding
and then must run on test fuel if it does not , engine is bad or spark is bad.  All engines run on test fuel even sparkless diesels.

- On propane it combusted a couple times but did not turn over and stall. I can order new plugs and try them, but the plugs I have look pretty good still. 

-Swapped coil packs with ones that were known good and still no difference. 

once here in this ordered flow of tests, then we test spark deep checked to prove it is not bad and is timed correctly and to make sure all 4 plugs spark in correct tidied order,
1,3,4,2 (firing order must) do not mix up COP wired input cables.  you have 4 COPs, USA.
-Next to impossible to mix the COP order. Wires are too short to mix up.
what if this donor engine had wrong parts installed,  expect anything from any wrecker.
to do that do the tests, skip none and do them in the correct order.
-I only used the block and a few other misc pieces from the wrecker engine (Crank sensor thats on the flywheel, waterpump, and Coolant sensor- i broke my old one trying to get it off my old block). Everything else including the intake manifold, and accessories are from the old truck.

if does not crank grab the A/t shift lever, step on brake pedal and shift  to N and crank if it cranks the PNDRL switch is bad , in the P position;
real starting fluid burns,
watch scotty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064Ilsz8Fzg

- I love scotty, watch him all the time. Im from toronto where he grew up. I tried starting in Park and Neutral and both yielded the same results. no start.

ignore fuel pressure test, but sure it must be in spec.
if say the fuel FPR regulator fuel return line clogs fuel pressure goes to 2 times normal and the engine flood for ever.

-I opened the fuel return line and had someone crank the engine. Fuel was being sent back to tank. Now how m,uch fuel should be going back im not sure. But I would think that its the right amount. 

that is the 2nd reason to use test fuel on a dry engine, fuel pump relay pulled.  and repeat like 3 to 5 times, hear engine sound normal and  stall each time as Scotty just did.
if it sounds great then forget spark,
and see of fuel pressure is wrong, wrong is 60PSI, dead WRONG.

My buddy was too tired to come over last night with his timing light. He said hell come over tonight after hes done. 

If you can think of any other tests let me know. Im open to anything at this point. Ive had 2 certified mechanics come by that have both 20+ years of experience.