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+--- Thread: 96 Kick rpm's (/thread-96-kick-rpm-s)
96 Kick rpm's - dmax - 12-25-2020
I have a 96 Sidekick, 1.6L, 16v, manual trans.
In any gear as soon as you hit 3500 rpm, the engine cuts off as if it can't get gas or no spark? As the rpm's drop it fires again but will quit as soon as it hits 3500 again, If you keep trying, it will give you wiplash.
It does this intermittently. Most mornings it will do so right off the get go and stop after driving for a while but if you turn it off and start again within a few minutes, it will do it again till you drive for a while. Once in a while it will start and run normal .
Codes were PO133 - o2 sensor, PO 335 CPS, I replaced both and the o2 didn't repeat after that but the cps did.
Also showed PO 510 - closed tps the first time out but hasn't shown it in subsequent scans.
Any thoughts?
Oh yea, I was going to try and check out the wires from the CPS to the ECM but found that the colors on the CPS plug (blk/red dot and wht/red dot) do not match what the manual shows (org/blu line and wht/blu line) and I don't see either of the plug colors at the ECM.
I know enough to be dangerous so any counsel is welcome.
RE: 96 Kick rpm's - fixkick - 12-25-2020
(12-25-2020, 03:16 AM)dmax Wrote: I have a 96 Sidekick, 1.6L, 16v, manual trans.I think your are doing really great so far.
In any gear as soon as you hit 3500 rpm, the engine cuts off as if it can't get gas or no spark? As the rpm's drop it fires again but will quit as soon as it hits 3500 again, If you keep trying, it will give you whiplash.
It does this intermittently. Most mornings it will do so right off the get go and stop after driving for a while but if you turn it off and start again within a few minutes, it will do it again till you drive for a while. Once in a while it will start and run normal .
Codes were PO133 - o2 sensor, PO 335 CPS, I replaced both and the o2 didn't repeat after that but the cps did.
Also showed PO 510 - closed tps the first time out but hasn't shown it in subsequent scans.
Any thoughts?
Oh yea, I was going to try and check out the wires from the CPS to the ECM but found that the colors on the CPS plug (blk/red dot and wht/red dot) do not match what the manual shows (org/blu line and wht/blu line) and I don't see either of the plug colors at the ECM.
I know enough to be dangerous so any counsel is welcome.
verbatim FSM. 1996
is this USA car? colors of wires match USA car, and not same world wide.
P0133 Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Slow Response Bank 1 Sensor 1
P0335 Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Circuit,. located not in DIzzy CMP, but on bottom or front crank pulley the bolt on sensor there. is bad. or crank bolt front 17mm head is loose and not at 94ft/lbs torque per manual new.
P0510 means the TPS idle switch is late to open, or bad TPS , or TPS was not calibrated by hand correctly.
this will cause throttle foot tip In action at , acceleration to be delayed and a slight hesitation.
that gross cut out seems to me is lost spark. totally, like distributor is going dead, or wires to it are bad. A dead (oddly) CKP does not kill spark like on most cars.
CMP dead does kill spark 100% (like throwing switch)
make sure IG_coil and FI fuse are not loose or cracked etc.
CKP is org/blu and wht/blu wires. yes. here is the real USA cars wiring EFI.
https://fixkick.com/ECU/1996/EFI1.jpg
https://fixkick.com/ECU/1996/EFI2.jpg
https://fixkick.com/ECU/1996/EFI3.jpg
merry holidays to you and yours.
CKP-96 actual, but tracker.
![[Image: ckp-sensor.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/my96-16v/ckp-sensor.jpg)
RE: 96 Kick rpm's - dmax - 12-25-2020
What I called CPS iws CKP in actuality. A mechanic friend suggested the possibility of it being the distributer.
RE: 96 Kick rpm's - dmax - 12-25-2020
The CKP wire colors are definitely different than the schematic describes. Could it be Canadian? I don't know. How would one tell?
RE: 96 Kick rpm's - fixkick - 12-25-2020
(12-25-2020, 06:54 AM)dmax Wrote: The CKP wire colors are definitely different than the schematic describes. Could it be Canadian? I don't know. How would one tell?the DTC error is clear it is the crank sensor , by any other 3 letter name it is the front end of the crank sensors
and yes , suzuki has vast harnessed used even one year car ,for different countries.
my schematics might be tracker books and (GM GEO tracker) the colored dots ( a secret is my guess country codes.
your crank sensor has 2 wires the to colored wires go to the ECU, same named pins as the schematic.
you put in a new CKP? was the old one , business end (top) a mess> like one sees when the crank snout tone wheel teeth (cog) hit it?
if yes the crank snout may be damage.?????
tell me about the CKP what did you do there, exactly and what did you see there. exactly
also many errors will not show up until 2 or 3 driving cycles have ended.
the DOME fuse bust be good or all errors are forgotten key off.
The best real scan tools show PENDING code and button name same shows all live errors.
Even those masked errors waiting for 3 driving cycles to end.
There may be errors you have yet to see?
what if there are missed CAM sensor (CMP) happening and missed, that is why driving and logging all sensors and DTC finds intermittent causes.,
the real key to this problem is it spark bad or total loss of fuel
and for sure the ECU if it sees lost spark tells you it did, P030x errors, x= 0 to 4, 0 means all 4 failed.
the ECU cuts all fuel injections the 1 instant spark ends. (by law) the no crash and burn rules.
and when that happens the engine is violant loss of power, brutal.
if just fuel lost only , you can learn this by pulling the FI fuse running see the power flag off slowly, and engine die. gentle loss of power, from fuel pressure dropping.
good luck to you .
and happy holidays.
RE: 96 Kick rpm's - Tired Old Man - 03-01-2021
(12-25-2020, 03:16 AM)dmax Wrote: I have a 96 Sidekick, 1.6L, 16v, manual trans.What was the outcome on the RPM dropping upon reaching 3500???
In any gear as soon as you hit 3500 rpm, the engine cuts off as if it can't get gas or no spark?
As the rpm's drop it fires again but will quit as soon as it hits 3500 again,
If you keep trying, it will give you wiplash.
It does this intermittently.
Most mornings it will do so right off the get go and stop after driving for a while but if you turn it off and start again within a few minutes, it will do it again till you drive for a while. Once in a while it will start and run normal .
Codes were PO133 - o2 sensor,
PO 335 CPS, (this poster gets this wrong, 335 is crank sensor CKP and 340 is CMP) CMP kills spark dead, CKP never. (the suzuki page is here to prove that)
CMP is in the base of distributor if fails spark end. fuel ends engine dies
CKP is mounted to the front if engine at crank pulley front, this does NOT Kill spark but does cause small errors of timing , and DTC error to show that.
P0340 errors are catastrophic, this ends all spark with CMP goes dead. (or wires to it bad (fixkick comments RED
the key to find this is use the scan tool for sure while failing and keep the key ON so the scan tool can see all errors and push the pending button and DOME fuse must be good.
I replaced both and the o2 didn't repeat after that but the cps did.
Also showed PO 510 - closed tps the first time out but hasn't shown it in subsequent scans.
Any thoughts?
Oh yea, I was going to try and check out the wires from the CPS to the ECM but found that the colors on the CPS plug (blk/red dot and wht/red dot) do not match what the manual shows (org/blu line and wht/blu line) and I don't see either of the plug colors at the ECM.
yes colors vary and do not read DOTS those are county coded dots but is a big secret of suz. I guess you mean CMP, cam sensors, CKP I crank sensor on this car.
I know enough to be dangerous so any counsel is welcome.
there are only 2 ways to find this. prove spark fails or prove the FPR fails
if the car can be made to fail parked in the drive way say so and we find it using only 2 tools.
ok? fixkick me.
I have the same condition, sucks 45 mph.
96 sidekick, G16B, AUTO, W/16 pin auto trans, w/4 plug cpu IE 12/16/22/26 pin connectors
runs to 3500 and dies,12 volt power to pins 2 and 7 constant never wavers, tach feed #6 dies when condition accures, both grounds on pin 1 and 4 are solid. Grounds on D 26 pin 14 and 15 are solid, 14volt running on D 3 and .. no service code registured, SES bulb works key on engine not running, any help would be appreciated, Sorry I don't remember ECU #
RE: 96 Kick rpm's - fixkick - 03-01-2021
(03-01-2021, 02:08 PM)Tired Old Man Wrote: What was the outcome on the RPM dropping upon reaching 3500???tried old man.
I have the same condition, sucks 45 mph. (you do not know that, ever) sorry+
96 sidekick, G16B, AUTO, W/16 pin auto trans, w/4 plug cpu IE 12/16/22/26 pin connectors
runs to 3500 and dies,12 volt power to pins 2 and 7 constant never wavers, tach feed #6 dies when condition accrues, both grounds on pin 1 and 4 are solid. Grounds on D 26 pin 14 and 15 are solid, 14volt running on D 3 and .. no service code registered, SES bulb works key on engine not running, any help would be appreciated, Sorry I don't remember ECU #
is this a hyjack post?
yes, then where are your scan tool DTC errors, any OBD2 scanner made in USA to read codes from the DLC jack at right knee edge. 16pin jack OBD2 DLC.
1996 up have no blink codes in USA< none ever it must be scanned.
Tach feed brown wire dead, means lost spark , or CMP dead ,inside the distributor but a real scan tool tells you what end is bad, CMP send or ignitor end. P03xx codes all tell what is up.
for sure even using the scan tools pending codes, mode and stored code modes, and DOME fuse must not be blown out.
THE SPARK ON THIS ENGINE WORK LIKE THIS.
Engine spins
CMP makes perfect square wave at pin3 below
this hall sensor sends this signal to the ECU, if dead fuel is cut to zero in seconds or less.
the ecu creates all spark timing, all.
The Ecu then drives the igniter active for dwell time on COIL, and release s (induction ) it to make spark at HV terminal.
it is true if spark dies, the distributor is prime suspect as are bad wiring it it.
below purple words are links to pages. fixkick. on topic
make sure all ground wires are got to engine right rear side, fire wall front and to distrub.
P03xx codes SET are prime evidence, to know what is wrong , 1996 is very good year, to know what is happing, OBD2. USA.
if the suppressor fall off or is loose in the socket the tach line goes dead too, brown wire and ECU cuts fuel fast. instantly. (fire prevention that)
no fuses blown , none cracked or loose below. (all 3 schematics are on my page same name)
a scan too can be used, on a dead engine, idling or failing at any time or even driving with a helper, using it. (or any tool that logs data) this is how to diagnose any 96 plus car USA.
trick #1 is on dead engines, crank for 10 seconds release the key do not turn off key and let the scan tool tell you omg P03xx errors NOW.
all crib notes below are mine, data from 1996/7 (2 cars mine)
https://fixkick.com/ECU/1996/EFI1.jpg
![[Image: EFI1.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/ECU/1996/EFI1.jpg)
RE: 96 Kick rpm's - fixkick - 03-01-2021
now how to fix any car that fails like this. (limited evidence)
first and foremost , we try to get the engine to fail parked, with hood up. (a prime goal to any engine mechanic) no safer way exists.
if you can do that via any why, the problems are vastly more easy to diagnose, not driving,
first make sure all these grounds are not bad, that happen with poor service so common in the engine bay . grounds seen here 16v seen G105 and down here)
G103, omg bad if loose. main engine ground bad.
and with 3 tools , OBD2 scan tool , timing spark tool, and fuel pressure gauge,
1: grounds ok per link above, and not bad ground at plug pins on distributor.
2: scan the ECU using OBD2 tool, and if , P340 is bad CMP ,spark dies, P030x errors (x= 0 means all 4 fail, 1,2,3,4 for x means that cylinder number misfired
3: connect timing light to #1 front wire HV, tape down the trigger on gun with duct tape now engine running it STROBE FLASHES endlessly. #20 tool at harbor Fright(pun)
3a: if it stops flashing ever testing, spark is failing, if engine fails and spark does not fail seen here, then it is not a spark problem (assumes new spark plugs and new wire set)
3b: it is not spark caused, nor did OBD1 tell you it was, P03xx codes are all spark.
4: ok fuel is failing , FPR is top cause or bad fuel pump.
5: the front fuel rail has plug there and we can put a scharder valve there, to measure fuel pressure at any time,
based on limited evidence above, bad spark ,bad grounds , or fuel pressure reg, stuck low. as they love to do this old. (inside they jam up) or pump weak.
other tests here, can pan out.
front crank bolt 17mm head bolt at pulley not at 94Ft./lbs torque. but is loose can crank end is now a wreck.
cam belt not slipped or slipping, you will see spark timing way the H3LL off time. as #1 first clue. use the timing light to see that error, huge, but use the timing freeze jumper now.
the 3 fuses to ECU must not be , loose rusty, cracked inside, or damaged in any why.
if spark fails we can learn why easy
same with fuel pressure dropping, sure can easy.
off my pump/fpr page these words, this FPR sets fuel pressure at say 35psi at idle then rises by PSI to say 41PSI at wide open throttle , if not power is not there, low power.HP.
The fuel pressure must rise or lower like the above chart shows.
Static test: 1.6L KEY ON-no start no plenum vacuum---Suz 35.6–42.7 psi (GM says 36-43 psi) Sport = 1.8L ----38.4–44.0 psi
Running pressure: . 1.6L Key ON-start - full plenum vacuum-- 29.8–37.0 psi (GM says 30-37 psi) Sport = 1.8L ---31.3–37.0 psi,
Both tests above are critical. to proper MPI operations.
The injector leak down test (simple and crude)
if the PFR does not raise pressure by 6PSI with aggressive right foot action (wot) the FPR is bad or pump bad, do the shunt test for latter cause.
this is not in the books this critical test. but that is how it works.
the reason if you are curious, is that at wot the injector fights atmosphere pressure 14.7psi, so needs 6 psi more fuel pressure to do that.; if not power will not happen.
this is my FPR in action , using magical vacuum hand pump tool, a 5 th tool here. test pressure at keyon then idle. (not that keyon = WOT) both are at atmospheric.
chart shows BAR for say European user. etc.
![[Image: reg-graph-mpi-g.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/INJECTORS/PUMP/reg-graph-mpi-g.jpg)