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+--- Thread: Fuel in oil and out exhaust (/thread-fuel-in-oil-and-out-exhaust)
Fuel in oil and out exhaust - 90SK - 10-04-2018
Hi,
I'm new to the forum as a member but have followed it for some time.
I've owned my Canadian 1990 sidekick JA 2 door 1.6 8v 5sp 4x4 for a few year now, only has 140km. When I bought it, it ran well. I used it for the fall season, then it sat parked for a few months and would not start. Ran on starting fluid only. I messed with it and managed to get it going, then it ran fine for the next 8 or 9 months. l let it sit again for a few months and it would not start again except on starting fluid. Messed with it again got it going ran perfect, good idle etc. a few hours later would not start. Did this a few times, then on the last start up, it started to bog, white smoke out the exhaust and it stalled. Left it fr a few hours came out and smelled of gas. Upon inspection I found gas was coming out the Cat and exhaust and in the oil pan.
Became seriously frustrated and left it for a few weeks, added fresh oil and filter only to have it do exactly the same thing. Checked for codes after each non start and get 12 each time.
Took to a local shop as i'm out of my league with this and they suggested the fuel injector needs replacing.
I've not found any used 89/90 but lots of 91 etc which appears to have a different connector but can be made to work. Before I go further I thought I'd put it up on the forum for your thoughts.
Keith
1990 Sidekick convertible
1.6 8v 5spd 4x4
140,000 kms
Stock unit
RE: Fuel in oil and out exhaust - fixkick - 10-04-2018
extreme gross flooding (use WOT cranking , this causes ECU to cut all fuel)
this is easy to diagnose on any EFI car, even this car, with 1 injector, that can even be viewed.
it has 3 parts, (injector, ECU and sensors,) one of these 3 fail, (groups) it probably is not , fuel pressure 2 time normal, but we find all that doing TEST #1
test 1 is called a VISUAL leak down tests. first with just eyeball.
(factiod: TBI runs Great with no air horn, just dont suck in bugs, and for sure BOLTS/nuts/screws/washers LOL)
1: take off the air horn on top of the TB (throttle body, ) btw , the TB in your car is not the same as 91 to 95 years. different injector and body , and different ISC idle valve.
2:This car at 10 degr F acts as 91+ car, but no now its still late summer here, (87F here now) that means the injector Fuel PUMP on this car until cranked.
2a: so key on say 3 times see if injector leaks, with pump dead, (no cranking) sense the pump is dead now, no fuel possible, but good to check (wiring hacks reasoning)
2b: now crank the engine see injector squire, crank for up to 3 seconds, max (to avoid flooding) then release key and see if injector leaks NOW.
2c: lets say it leaks NOW, that is failure . discussed below.
2d: This test is WOT cranking,, and if it leaks cranking with foot wide open throttle, this is bad injector or bad ECU. but lets do the testing.
3: if the injector leaks fuel, then we unplug the injector connector next , if the leaking stops the injector is not the cause, (easy no? super easy, to do that)
I think test 2d is the best , above 10F out door temps.
4: if we find the leaking stops with injector connector pulled, then the ECU is bad.
I'd say off hand the ECU sensors are not bad if code 12, so why is ECU bad. that ends leaking with injector plug wire connector pulled.
we can test the sensors if you want with any cheap $20 DMM meter made. easy, ask. Here is your wiring, there. Are the Red or yellow injector wires molested in any way?
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/89/89-90schem1.jpg
well the ECU can be bad, it has 2 transistors that drive the 2 injector wires, many times we see other hackers here, that found 1 wire dead and hot wire it and sure car can start but floods.
the symptoms are cranks ok, but does not start, but floods. (use WOT cranking top clear floods) or even watch the injector doing that to see the injector cut all fuel at WOT.
the other way to test this as all MPI guys know , as all cars now are MPI , 4 or more injectors.
Now testing with real fuel pressure test, all mechanics know what leak down test is. (NOT GUESSING AND GOING BROKE)
the classic fuel pressure leak down test IS NEXT .
on THE 92-UP mpi CAR THE RAILS IS AT FULL PRESSURE, just key on. but not your car so needs more odd ways if testing (fools many a person)
The 10F rule fools most. (as does the all-in-on pump and main relay)
we key on and test fuel pressure on this car cranking or running, only. (the pump is dead, just key on, warm days)
34.1 to 39.8 PSI. cranking, this is SPEC>(and running spec)
if at 50 t0 60 PSI the fuel pressure reg is bad, FPR on the front of the TB , see it? they love to fail this old, 28 years old.
ok say you get 35psi, (varies by altitude this, unknown by me your location altitude) same pressure running, btw.
crank 3 seconds max. (best is 2nd person watching in all cases in to the TB air horn, huge pipe there removed)
then release the key, key, and turn to off, the pressure holds 1min, this too, is a FPR test, to make sure it does not leak, nor the 1 injector , as we looked at with eyes.
if the pressure falls fast, that means there is leak. (if the injector is dry the FPR is bad or the check-valve in the pump is bad)
if you saw the injector leak like mad?, yes, than BINGO, the cause of Injector leak down test failure is known by you.(well ECU or injector is)
spec is Residual test is 25 psi min. after 1 minute. (say 35 to 25psi in 1 minute flat or better, as better is holds higher)
if the injector stops leaking unplugged, the injector is not bad. (easy as pie test)
the only hard part is knowing when to look, and that answers is, 2 fold, just as you key off no leaks, and cranking wot , this is magical Unflood mode covered in the users guide.
When the TPS (TP pin or throttle angle pin (as we say today) is not at 1v but more closer to 4vdc this is wide open throttle the ECU sees that cracking and cuts the injector signals DEAD. (this logic is all hard coded in the ECU brain Firmware (ROM in this case)
the injector can be fully cleaned and tested here, $22
cheap, no need to send a fortune on TB so rare. the clean it and test it before and after, there is no guessing here, just do it. no huge cost $22 not $300
https://www.witchhunter.com/
the 91 plus year TBI is more easy to test
we key on get 35psi and no injector leaks. ever.
on your car, key on pressure will be 0 PSI , no pressure, and cant leak this test, due to no pressure , this and only this fact makes 89/90 tricky to test,
so crank it and release the key, at instant of key off, no leaks allowed (injector tip , eyes on)
or crank WOT, no injections allowed, now.
NOT SURE WHITE SMOKE, BLACK IS FUEL.
WHITE smells like burning oil is oil
white, smells sweet, like antifreeze is water leak blown haad gasket for far worse.
Step one is inspecting those 2 wire on the injector, see of others hacked here, no cuts on the 2 wires allowed, no splicing there allowed. ok? (RED AND YELLOW PAIR)
the only 2 sensors related, here are IS ECT and MAP.
if the ECT reads 2300 ohm at room temp its good
if the ECT read. 15,000 ohms at room temp this car will flood, (the ecu brain sees that and thinks omg, you live on the North Pool, Klondike and dumps HUGE FUEL)
The map is the same, it can read too high and EFI goes way rich or the vacuum hose is bad to it.
REFR:
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/pump.html
RE: Fuel in oil and out exhaust - 90SK - 10-08-2018
Thanks for your reply, I have been away for a few days so just got back to it yesterday.
So I popped out the injector to inspect only to see the lower O ring is damaged which I guess would be the source of the fuel leaking. Quite a challenge to find new ones, especially in Canada. Found a new one in the US and should have by next weekend. Will update further once I get it installed.
RE: Fuel in oil and out exhaust - fixkick - 10-08-2018
Great news, and the cheapest part to fail, a seal
in case that does not pan out .
check out this.
http://fixkick.com/INJECTORS/new-seals/seals.html#TBI_rings
rocktauto
$1.64 (GB rings)
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/suzuki,1991,sidekick,1.6l+l4,1271315,fuel+&+air,fuel+injector+o-ring,13679
(10-08-2018, 05:13 AM)90SK Wrote: Thanks for your reply, I have been away for a few days so just got back to it yesterday.
So I popped out the injector to inspect only to see the lower O ring is damaged which I guess would be the source of the fuel leaking. Quite a challenge to find new ones, especially in Canada. Found a new one in the US and should have by next weekend. Will update further once I get it installed.
RE: Fuel in oil and out exhaust - 90SK - 10-22-2018
Well I can report that its running again and idles down to a steady 800rpm.
I took longer to get the parts, the first place I tried cancelled the order while I was away. Rock Auto, as you suggested and had them to me in a week.
Now, its always had a weird sucking noise at the throttle body when its first started like the airflow is fluttering, it stops after a few minutes but seems to go on longer now. Also seem to have a noisy lifter tick like sound that I don't recall hearing before this all started.
Seems we fix one problem only to find another.
RE: Fuel in oil and out exhaust - fixkick - 10-22-2018
all cars this old have like 10 problems, or more. (well the bad o-ring flooding engine failure is gone , cheers)
totally normal that.
look out on road in town, see in 1990 cars moving and being driven?, not one here, zero. If I see one its like a Kodak Moment !
parts stores, tend yo have no parts on the self for 1990 cars, for the reasons above, why would they waste precious shelf space.? locally.
the 1990 TBI does make sucking sounds, the ISC sucks air, the IAC sucks air the TV sucks air all the time running. IAC turns off hot engine.
The PCV hose can be cracked, never seen one this old not cracked and that sucks air.
are all the stock intake parts present?, the huge air pipe on top the TB, and air cleaner box.? all those parts include a design that not only filters air but stops induction noises.
GraB an old gas line 1/4" hose say 2 feet long, (arms length) put one end to you ear, and move the other end to find noises, like vacuum leaks etc.
you should snap at least one photo of the engine, and put it in the gallery then put the BBC link code in a post here.
then we can see, what is there.
28 year old cars have this bad habit of having missing key parts, and wrong parts installed or totally missing.
a photo is really wroth 1000 words. in many cases. left and right side, wow.
The ISC on the old car likes to fail. top part right side of TB throttle body.
it has 2 wires, and likes to fail , stick, make noise, or do very odd things, it wiggles 200 times a second after 28 year, its now a wreck. (some even work this old but are very noisy)
ISC = Idle speed control solenoid valve. (it's an electro magnetic air valve)
valve lash is checked every 50k, to 60,000 miles, if not done those solid lifters make noise, or the opposite get tight and burn the valves in the head to a crisp.
valves that are talking to you have this message, (the PO never did proper service on the car)
This is an 8valve engine and is more easy to work on , and only 1 injector not 4, so that too makes it more easy to work on,
The 8v engine with vacuum leaks cause idle RPM to go too high with full engine power, unlike 16valve MPI engines.
so that too is good, that full power part when leaks happen.
I'd first put new spark wires on it so this old weak spark system can work better, best of the best are MAG wires. BOSCH mag wires are very cheap and GOOD> NGK better but $$$$
make sure the front crank pulley bolt 17mm head is set to 94/ft/lbs torque, per factory TSB (warning sheet by Suzuki) avoiding crank snout damage, and doom thing.
that is all for now. good luck.
RE: Fuel in oil and out exhaust - fixkick - 10-22-2018
see this , this is your ECU
Id think hard on replacing this black cap on the top left corner of below ECU. (this ECU is fuel only ECU, this ECU does not create or advance spark) until 1991 in uSA.
and center left one too, if this old.
![[Image: 1_31_05_13_12_12_12.jpeg]](http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/1_31_05_13_12_12_12.jpeg)
RE: Fuel in oil and out exhaust - 90SK - 10-23-2018
I have added a few photos to the gallery.
As far as I know this was owned by one family since new and its stock. The first part of its life was pulled behind a motor home (one of the reasons I bought it) and then their daughter drove it. It appears to have all proper parts and components on it. I haven't pulled the ecu as of yet to inspect it - I presume with such low miles/KMs that it would be original. There is a local guy here that says he does the caps for $150 cdn. Is there anything I need to know about removing the ECM before I attempt to do so? Seems I might need to be flexible to access it.
Cheers,
RE: Fuel in oil and out exhaust - fixkick - 10-23-2018
caps. $2 parts cost, (its not like diamonds or such mouser.com sell them top makers too.
$148 labor,. for 15minutes work? wow. , $50 sure, 3 times that is over the top, if you were my neighbor , id charge you $2.
$50 /hr max over that is rip, IMO
the 4 screws LARGE, that hold it in are Phillips, #3 large size.
i typed this 11 years ago and is still valid.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU.html#Removal_of_ECU:
for sure if large person, under dash work is seat out time. first. but can be done with laying upside down, eye bulging and red , LOL.
good luck finding finding a person that can solder less that $600/hr labor rates.. (gee you hand it to him getting it out is 90% of the job, really.
(10-23-2018, 04:36 AM)90SK Wrote: I have added a few photos to the gallery.
As far as I know this was owned by one family since new and its stock. The first part of its life was pulled behind a motor home (one of the reasons I bought it) and then their daughter drove it. It appears to have all proper parts and components on it. I haven't pulled the ecu as of yet to inspect it - I presume with such low miles/KMs that it would be original. There is a local guy here that says he does the caps for $150 cdn. Is there anything I need to know about removing the ECM before I attempt to do so? Seems I might need to be flexible to access it.
Cheers,
RE: Fuel in oil and out exhaust - fixkick - 10-23-2018
OMG (oh my golly)
its all there, ! wow, that is rare to see, nice to see that.