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+--- Thread: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch (/thread-turn-signals-out-after-smoke-in-combo-switch)
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-24-2014
You mean touch any contacts on that same combo board until I get 0? Yellow is power. So any faulty contact will affect the whole combo? That burn then is insignificant I guess.
(11-24-2014, 12:31 PM)fixkick Wrote: to find what contacts, are yellow,There is only one yellow? Or you mean all the wires that have any yellow/xxx in it are related to the solid yellow?
J
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - fixkick - 11-24-2014
good morn.
yes, use the DMM meter, use ohms scale low. this forms a continuity tester, that can in fact test any switch, for open and close.
its just a simple switch, one step more complex that say a 1850s Edison Knife switch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_switch
zero ohms is closed. (same reading as meter leads shorted) basic electricity....
infinity is open ( same reading with meter not connected on ohms)
the switch only has one yellow wire (that means it has NO stripes) this wire goes to the fuse called "Turn/ Back" see the drawing it is clear, no?
here ill do a full session test.
the Blinker relay was dead, the power to it was dead, so....... (and fuse is good, and hot 12vdc on both sides)
i find the yellow wire , has 12vdc, to the combo is dead. 0volts key on, suggesting (strongly) that Combo switch assembly, is bad.
i remove combo assembly. (not apart)
i then check the yellow wire pin 19 combo (solid not stripped) 12vdc power wire, to the output of the blinker. with my meter red test lead (set to low ohms scale)
at the same time, i connect. my meter black lead to.
the other Combo pin. 3, that is , yellow-white (white means stipe) other schematics show, yellow-green or yell-blue.
i move the blink lever to right then left the meter must show 0 ohms when selected. if that the combo is bad.
so i take it apart
and again find the solid pin 19 yellow wire. i again, connect my OHM meter (short for resistance scale lowest) to the this yellow wire (solid)
i then find the contact on the card, that shows 0 ohms, this finds the correct contact.
if savvy you can follow the pcb traces from yellow solder pad to the contacts.... yes. there are 2 ways....
once found clean those contacts with scotch brite pads (like mom uses for dishes)
then find the other matching side, clean those. and look for missing springs. or deformed slider, on that side. to that switch. clean , bend as necessary to get the
contacts to work
in some cases, (using wrong fuses) the contact slider, structure (plastic ) melted and no longer fits right and the slider can no longer apply tension to the contacts
this is called , Bad combo day, buy a new one if it can not be repaired. most can but, id have to touch it and see it in 3D vision, to see why it failed.
its real expensive over 200 bucks
https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=934461&cc=1271427
the drawing again.
![[Image: 3_22_11_14_1_58_45.jpeg]](http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_22_11_14_1_58_45.jpeg)
one other odd fact on working on electrics.
the colors in the book are Suzuki main harness colors, only.
so, if the car has say a mitsubish, comb switch (or other brands , Denso, who knows... huh?)
those switch side colors will be different with different switch makers , on the switch side, Suzuki can not dictate this side, see? Suzuki just buys them and uses them. (same with sensors)
you must learn to read the harness side, first. then......
lets pretend to do that now, see the fuse is yellow wired (again, no stripe)
i see it is yellow as it enters the combo plug pin 19... see that?, now look at the switch side?, that is the color used for 19 on your cars switch, write that down.?
now find the harness yel/wht, then find color at pin 3, on the combo side. it might be yellow green. ?
at this time you now know where pins 3 and 19 are...
and can do the simple continuity tests.
we are testing the continuity of pins, 3 and 19, in left then right mode.
we then find the contacts that wire to pin 3. "yellow no stripe"
that is first.
and last we find out why the contacts 3 fail.
they are just contacts, they are not magic or electronics or other technology just the same as used by thomas edison and mr. Tesla.
the contacts are just brass. and are spring loaded.
the fail only 2 basic ways
1: dirty contacts (corroded or eroded)
2: lost spring tension by any means. (bent, or heat damaged and bent , or lost spring, or melted plastic ,such that the springs are left inactive)
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-25-2014
(11-24-2014, 10:33 AM)zukitrek Wrote: This is the contact I told you when I first dissembled the combo, way ago, that looked strange. There is metal missing at both ends of that copper tab.Did you get a closer look to this contact? That is the turn signals brass contact. Its missing material at each end. Or is it designed like this?
[attachment=154]
I'll recheck everything again.
Have a great day.
J
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - fixkick - 11-25-2014
ok, ill try to look, but i dont have spare here, ive never had one go bad, but then , my wires are never allowed to fray or short....
are you saying this burn spot here is missing brass
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/attachment.php?aid=151
if yes, im not sure how to fix that, you might try , new brass sheet and epoxy?
the fuse would blow before that damage, maybe it was blown 90% by last owner (fuse wrong) then you had it over load with a short again. and the 10% brass
could not take normal current or small overload and poof. smoke.
time times thing go bad in stages, not all at once, and damage is progressive.
the car is old and may have had hard times. no>??
ive seen so many cars where owners blow a fuse and wrap it in foil then the wires or $230 switches melt, all for a wire cut at a corner lamp.
not you, the other guy.
you may be , just the owner of a very abused switch. the lamps down draw much.
2 amps time 2 or 4 amps. total but are flashing so is only 2 amps average.
so the contacts last for ever until someone buys crap china bulbs, turns them to hard (like 1gram wrecks the POS lamps) and then it shorts.
now the current is infinity. the fuse blows, and all is good.
if some funny guy , puts foil on the fuse or uses a 30amp, the $230 combo burns up.
that is how it all happens the cure , who knows.?
but being a skin flint, id try to fix it.
id even do epoxy brass rebuilds.
or find one at wrecker.
last new.
tell me, why not find which pads are yellow pad./
then use pc paint and put an arrow to it, and repost the photo.
so i can see what is bad there, or better use a camera with macro feature (switch) and take a real close photo of yellow pad.
then its MATE.
keep in mind ,im in a 2D world (www photos) and your switch is 3D, i cant see 3D at all (like thickness or bends eTC)
the list part (mate) the moving contacts
i can not see what is called REcession.
if the plastic melts the moving contact , holder and base , can melt and recede.
if that happens , it fails to make contact.
if that happens , i shim the lil' bugger.
keep in mind, its just and over glorified knife switch.
brutal, simple to a fault.
one contact moves, other is fixed.
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-25-2014
OK. This is the contact I'm referring to.
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/attachment.php?aid=153
This contacts is the one that slides across all those signal contacts.
THe one your are showing me is where I think the smoke event occurred and perhaps where the damage is? But yes, I'll run the other tests to rally pinpoint it, hopefully.
J
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - fixkick - 11-25-2014
that slider looks good to me so that means the other side is wrecked, burned up.
this is what they do.
one side of the other fails. its just contacts. if the contacts dont mate, then try to fix them so they do.
there is no other way, its just a switch.
if it switch dont close, its damaged
fix the damage. is the only cure.
my guess is the brass pads are blown up. vaporized by huge heat during a short.
if you put say 30 amps through any 10amp connect it blows up. (my guess at rating) It's not normal wear, that, and you saw the smoke, so it did fry.
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-25-2014
I'm going to send you a small video once I get home, because I'm getting confused. That way you enter my #d world and perhaps you see more clear.
I'll try to do the macro shots.
J
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-25-2014
Pics and videos as promised. The picture with the DMM at upper right shows solid yellow contact on board being switched with yellow/white (the doble contact on board) Leads are at the harness in pins 3 and 19.
[attachment=159]
Left contact below my finger is solid yellow. The double contact at the right of this one is yellow/white(white oval). The single one below these three is white/green(green oval).
The upper right single contact is the Green/red from signals, the double ones below this one is solid green and the single below this double contact green/yellow.
The single contacts between this two set described are the corresponding contacts of the signals wires when hazards are used.
If o.oo means sliders are bad then end of story if not then were OK? I cleaned them up anyways and raised the little bumps a bit more.
[attachment=158]
The actual signals slide looks to me like it lost material compared to the headlights slider?
[attachment=161]
I just inverted it so the raised part would touch contacts in board. Am I going the right way or just waisted my time and this no good? Hope this helps you.
Here is the link for the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHbjvdLS83A&list=UUF7ZdnZqyfqh0nMIS7yG--g
Good night Im really tired!1
J
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - fixkick - 11-25-2014
i got lost in the 1s photo, all we need is the yellow (solid) contact(set) then 19's
i see no damage in any photos. but am not sure which contact is 3 and 19. mark them. as that.
photo 3 is too blurry, no macro mode, . I cant see if its damaged. but why must i guess.
you never found the pin 19/3 contacts, once that is known, then the slider is known, so I'd only need to look at one slider. (19/3)
pin 19 is hazard 12vdc power, and is part of the same set of contacts. (directly or indirectly not sure)
Bench tested:
did the switch fail from pin 19 to pin 3 (19 is yellow)? this is first. (good or bad, if bad we dismantle the switch, if good, then the 12vdc test done before was done wrong. (repeat time)
try to keep in mind we are trying to get , 12vdc power to the blinker relay, (it failed to)
with switch on the bench, and meter set to low ohms , and probes on 19 and 3 pins
it will read about 0 to 0.5 ohms. when blinking,if not the contacts are bad.
and will read infinity with the switch in non blink mode.
cheers.
remember pin 3 was dead in the car.
pin 19 was 12vdc (fuse power) in car, was good
pin 3 was 0v. in blink, key on e, that tells us the switch is bad
the next step is to use ohms low scale 200 ohms or 2000 (lows on your meter)
then touch meter leads from 19 to 3 (no polarity on switches)
the meter must read 0 to 0.5ohms, with the switch in blink mode,(bench tested, connector not connnected (pig tail)
if not the switch is bad, buy a new combo, (most 99.9% of all shops do that)
but we then take it apart, we then use the same OHM meter, on same low scale to find the pin 19 yellow and pin 3 yell-grn contacts
i want to find the actual contacts for those 2 pins, i find them and inspect only them.
why not clean the cards with paint thinner, (not acetone) by oil base thinner, safe.
get all that old carp 20 year old grease off those parts.
then at the store by a small tube of Silicon dielectric grease (in my store is a 1dollar, packet next to the cash register, looks like catchup packet there, and many others too there, all different but we want Silicon.
use that later after its all fixed.
if the switch fails not dissembled, its bad, 3 to 19.
if it does not fail. then we did the power tests wrong long ago.
the video is set to private, its not usable.
history 1 TO 6:
1 we failed the on car test. 12vdc in , 0v out, on pin 3 to 19.
2 so we next to on beach test, and see if the switch closes and shows 0 to 0.5 ohms, closed, if not its bad, if it does, the on car test was done wrong.
3 ok it fails , we take switch apart, and find contacts 3 and 19, are the clean and perfect, no, then correct that.
4 IF theY are good, i then find the matching slider set. to 3/19, then make sure they are clean and perfect, if not correct that.
5 i then put it back together and repeat all tests above, starting with the bench, 3/19 ohms test.
6 if that passes i put it back in car, if not repeat till it does.
that is the whole process....
i still do not know which contacts are 3 and 19
so can not look and comment. forget the others, just those 2 matter, seeing as how there was no power to the blinker relay, long ago.
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch - zukitrek - 11-25-2014
First photo is clear. The yellow oval is circling solid yellow wire contact with lead connected in pin 19 at harness. White oval contact is circling yellow/white contact and lead is connected at pin 3 of the harness. They did show continuity. I sued a clip to test in this pic and also this switch
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/attachment.php?aid=158
And it also measured continuity. Yes all that crap is being cleaned off.