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+--- Thread: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge (/thread-fuel-pump-problem-no-three-second-prime-or-purge)
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - fixkick - 12-18-2018
hello and good day.
Is this hardware question, or software, or both? (my guess both)
EML chips from Canada (the inventor and chip maker ) has many kinds of chips, and is used in many products (makes software super simple)
The most common forms are in a DONGLE.
USB
WIFI (I have this and love the range it has)
BLuetooth.(BT)
there are endless (100s) of software packages that work these great dongles.
The XL is what I think you need.
I like these because of no ELM pirating.
https://www.scantool.net/
if you ever used a dial up modem long ago, the ELM mimics this idea, command sets and smarts. a genius idea if ever.
that means any device can run the dongle with very little software (for sure even lots for free)
the newest tools 2008 and newer support all 5 pin protocols and just work ! on all USA cars made. 1996+ (there is 10 car list of exceptions ,year 1 , and is ECUs error not tools)
(12-17-2018, 09:38 AM)Zook.dawg Wrote: Forgot to ask
Do you have any recommendations for android software for reading ECM data from an elm device?
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - Zook.dawg - 12-18-2018
(12-18-2018, 06:03 AM)fixkick Wrote: hello and good day.
Is this hardware question, or software, or both? (my guess both)
EML chips from Canada (the inventor and chip maker ) has many kinds of chips, and is used in many products (makes software super simple)
The most common forms are in a DONGLE.
USB
WIFI (I have this and love the range it has)
BLuetooth.(BT)
there are endless (100s) of software packages that work these great dongles.
The XL is what I think you need.
I like these because of no ELM pirating.
https://www.scantool.net/
if you ever used a dial up modem long ago, the ELM mimics this idea, command sets and smarts. a genius idea if ever.
that means any device can run the dongle with very little software (for sure even lots for free)
the newest tools 2008 and newer support all 5 pin protocols and just work ! on all USA cars made. 1996+ (there is 10 car list of exceptions ,year 1 , and is ECUs error not tools)
(12-17-2018, 09:38 AM)Zook.dawg Wrote: Forgot to ask
Do you have any recommendations for android software for reading ECM data from an elm device?
Software. I have the Bluetooth ELM
I've used torque app for android successfully.
Curious with your experience of you knew of better software.
I thought data logging may help find the fuel pump problem
However without the ECM seeing an error, and the problem being at key on I'm not optimistic this will help me diagnose.
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - fixkick - 12-18-2018
Software. I have the Bluetooth ELM
I've used torque app for android successfully.
Curious with your experience of you knew of better software.
I thought data logging may help find the fuel pump problem
However without the ECM seeing an error, and the problem being at key on I'm not optimistic this will help me diagnose.
there are vast programs, for Android that have simple features, or huge.
some just do DTC errors
others are for what they call, dashboard, gauges. only
other scan all sensor data , reports it, and logs it if you want, and reports all DTCs set and has pending features.
and if all monitors are complete so you can get a smog check.
I use PC only PCMscan (palmer) (or hand tools) the android apps there are many. vast
a google search today ,is endless this topic, and changes constantly, with new features, like MPG, or drag racing timers and endless new ideas.
but the above are prime.
to me logging is prime features,
second is , Can loop O2 sensor and make it look like a fast scanning scope, voltage over time.
3rd is my palmer software I can create my own custom scans called MACRO scripts and can be useful. (my first one was MPG just for fun)
one can setup scans based on any sensors in the PCM, and all calculated data, like spark advance, injector time, and engine load.
But in all cases we are limited to what 1996 ECU can do, and is limited, greatly this first year.
try this>? it does logging and allows the same ScanXL scripts , my PC version uses. very powerful this.
https://www.palmerperformance.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=60
https://www.palmerperformance.com/store/index.php?cPath=21_29
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - fixkick - 12-18-2018
the tricky part is , to make sure you scan software likes your dongle device.(endless cloned ELM's, exist some good some horrible)
the scantool.net tools worked only with their software, (they cripple it on purpose ,custom made by Palmer,to only run on their tools , they did last time I checked.)
but if you buy SW from the true maker DIRECT, palmer soft direct, it works on vast numbers of tools. (ask them about yours first) the exact tool may matter.
there are other APPS that from android that are fully of FLUFF.
GPS tracking and other stuff, or Tweeting you for god knows what (tool to you)?
what also matters if the tool can do factory codes, (your car has none but a few P1xxx codes, that are easy to scan)
other cars have extensive, P1, P2, codes, and for transmission and vast other things, with cars with 12 computers on board and CAN-BUS talking to them all even the RADIO on the bus. ABS, and Air bags too.
But for this car, the DTC possible are tiny.
the inventer and maker of the ELM is in Canada. and they have this page (the only real ELM is here,)
https://www.elmelectronics.com/help/obd/software/#Android
or home grown apps, seen on open source sites
here is simple java version, that can be changed to any thing you want. using the AT command set.
https://github.com/pires/android-obd-reader/
but turn key android apps, there are i guess 300 or more out there, and reviewing them is impossible, as they change so fast. (an many are full of FLUFF)
We want the BEEF? (opposite of Fluff)
all factory codes tops my list but not needed on this 96 (the tools that do this are from $2000 to $10000) but I have Innova that does all jeep codes P0 P1, P2, on up. all codes in my JEEP books, to 2017
ABS
Air bags.
and can loop scan all 02 sensors, for sure. and graph them, and log.
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - Zook.dawg - 01-11-2019
So, after testing everything I could including fuel pump current, there was nothing else left to test. Aside from the ECM.
I've included a picture of the ECM I can see no visual damage. I figured a direct short would show obvious signs f damage.
I went to the junk yard and only found 4 doors. 3 96's but both 4 speeds
The others were pre 1996 obd1.
Outof desperation I bought 96 auto ECM ($35). It starts and runs albeit with an SES light and high idle however the fuel pump did run as it should.
Upon return to the junk yard to remove a windshield I took Danette my wife with me. As I was cutting away at the windshield seal she walks up and says "is this one of those Suzuki computer deals".
It turns out not only was it a Suzuki ECM, but an exact match for mine($35 too) 5spd, Obd2, evap2.
She found it hidden in one of the auto 4drs pretty happy as there wasn't any 96+ 5spd trackers even at the yard.
So now only guesses as to why the fp relay driver didn't doesn't work.
Possibly
The alternator ground cable was slightly loose. Possible intermittent connection over volting the alternator and ECM.
Seriously hacked radio/dash wires. Bare wires hanging and half the stock connector was still attached. Pretty nasty
I was dressed in a lot of warm layers and full if static that day. It's possible while checking the fp relay that I static shocked the fo driver circuit directly from the socket.
Although I used spade connectors to jump power to the fuel pump to get us home it's is possible that one of those connectors hit the pink ECM fob trigger wire. Being 12v it would have Burt up the drivers in short order.
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - fixkick - 01-11-2019
nice work there an finding ECu that works.
and yes, static electricity (and ESD) are very very bad, in very cold weather, the air goes dry and static loves to build up.
in most cases if the ECU FP relay is dead. the ECU is bad.
1991 up.
it takeS only power and ground for the relAY TO DO THE 3 SECOND PRIME.
CRANK IS NOT SPINNING AT KEY ON SO key on only must prime.
the only possible other input is TPS, if at 1vdc (about) on the TP pin not 3.5 to 4v, or more, then the relay must close for 3 seconds
the fix is easy 1 transistor, a true 50cent fix.
N.E.C made
Q106 is bad,, p/n# cE1F3P
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/DataSheet/cE1F3P.pdf
it can handle a 3 amp surge, no more.
vary hard to find this part but can be substituted easy. in fact and N-channel MOS FET can do this easy, for sure modern ones for CAR electronics, can
only tricky part is i do not know the Base pin driver current or voltage. if 3v or more is cake walk fix. (id scope that pin first then pick transistor)
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - fixkick - 01-12-2019
HERE is a very modern part that may work in place of the Q106 , very very hard to buy relic bipolar NPN TRANSISTOR suzuki used (misubishi in our case)
it even shuts off if you overload it, as seen on new cars.
![[Image: 3_12_12_18_5_36_18.jpeg]](http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_12_12_18_5_36_18.jpeg)
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - fixkick - 01-13-2019
cars have bad habits
like:
alternators going nuts
tow guy connects battery jump backwards
A/C clutch huge back EMF voltage spikes, surges. huge.
ESD events during service
ecu plugged it hot, battery not disconnected
car hit by lightening?
hot temperatures
vibration huge, !
the FPR relay shorts the coil or wrong relay used, or hot wired, wrong.
and more.
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - Zook.dawg - 01-15-2019
I'm.pretty positive now that after the fuse burnt, the static I was carrying caused the fuel pump transistor problem.
My wife brought home a new pair of shoes. I've been full of hard static since then. Two replaced shoes no more static. A bit to late to save the transistor though.
I have searched high and low and cannot find original transistor (almost old as I am).
My problem in finding a replacement. There are a many variables to match.
I do not know which attributes need to be perfect and which has wiggle room.
I have found a couple I'll post them here. Some I need to buy in $200 bulk some only by pcs of ten :
RE: Fuel pump problem-no three second prime or purge - Zook.dawg - 01-15-2019
I've done a pretty exhaustive search for a compatible transistor.
Do you think anything here at mouser would be compatible?