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+--- Thread: Replacing the A/C Compressor (/thread-replacing-the-a-c-compressor)
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - rasmeidirt - 05-29-2016
Could be other reasons:
- At stop sign, AC still works but not enough as always;
- Noise, blower in cab sometimes makes noise but still blowing strongly at position 4. But I always use position 2 to 3;
- Leak, it could be?
Where are the common places to leak, under the dash?, the blowing motor assembly under the dash?, the tubes?, the compressor itself?, the condenser?, and the drier bottle?
I have AC diagnostic chart for Sport 97, not 96. Do you think it is the same??
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - fixkick - 05-29-2016
all that
when a shop, finds pressure low, He knows you lost R134a, so he charges it back with the can that states R134a with dye.
then finds the leaks by inspecting the the whole system..,, guessing and making assumptions does not work here, only truth. this is what is called standard operating procedures. (even damage to pipes from previous collisions or poor service on some other engine failure and the previous mechanic did damage, but most times 'SEALS)
leaks must be found and cured, or you get to add R134a every 2 weeks then 1 week and then every day... as all leaks never get better they get worse. (imagine a seal getting worse in time, old,hard and full of cracks)
Ijust mentioned noise, as that too all by itself, is an issue, compressor noises, , fans, etc. (noises, that the customer does not like, , even if A/c is ok !)
then
low performance only parked.
or low performance all the time. (parked or at 100kmh)
or the front fan bad , dead, weak or intermittent. (this fan must work parked or...... condenser can't do its job)
lots and lots of fail points. electric , compressor and the refrigerant loop parts.
so it's 8c at 2000 rpm after it's stabilized, so this test passes. but you imply some other test fails, when, and under what conditions, and if it fails, does the compressor clutch dis-engage.
then it works perfectly with car moving fast and on long trips right? full A/C performance moving car fast? all the time? 8c? or the numbers in the chart?
then at stop signs, the AC is not 8c?, but much higher, right?
these are all performance issues,
the pump can in fact be weak, but you didn't state the high side pressures at 2000 rpm,which is how that is done, not idle.
if they say it needs a pump , try another, AC shop,, get a real second opinion, it's always good, even you and a Doctor.... same...
As you can see the costs can elevate, due to the extent of the damage. (it can be expensive, or just a loose fuse for $5) Diagnosis is the key to finding cause and reasonable repair cost.
This extra damage can not be discovered, staring at car, only when the system is dismantled and carefully examined by the technician....
No tech, wants to just jury rig the system and then have car return with the same problem. (contamination discovered, or signs of running wrong oil or wrong, refrigerants or illegal mix causes a witches brew)
http://www.autotrader.com/car-news/common-problems-and-typical-repair-costs-33197
A/C even on a new car parked in the sun, will take a long time to cool down said car, here in Deep South, this can take 10 miles. driving.. 120f outside, ambient.
if not sure , rent a car, and see how one really works when parked out side, in the hot sun,,,,, (and slower when humid , as it is there. the chart i posted shows the normal performance losses.)
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - fixkick - 05-29-2016
leak points, are common, many.
at the compressor main shaft seal,
at all compressor other seals, at the pipe junctions and the manifold plate on this compressor. (and pipe damage, bent , cracked crushes, etc)
try to understand , you can not fix cars using statistics. (educated guessing is not going to work)
cars do not read statistical data. they fail as they wish. ( If you look its just 2 pipes/compressor and a dryer to inspect a loop , under hood.)
That is why your A./C man use the dye test and lamp. to find the leak.
after all, he already knows its leaking, (adding R134a over and over, gee it leaks)
but then he checks all the easy places first. right? he is lazy and smart, then by the "process of elimination" of easy points of failure works the the harder places.
or knows by very careful checking OOPS, all the objects under hood DO NOT LEAK (an example) so therefor the EVAP end is leaking.
how he proceeds here, is HIS call, and depends on the car, and if car AC box can be removed, with lines attached, (this car may be like that, it has separate AC box. (most times this end does not leak .but,,,, fate always wins)
so he loosens the box, (evab box) and shines his UV lamp at the evap core, and sees the leak.?
most shops will just say, sorry customer, you need a new evap.
As you can see the makers of cars don't make it easy to diagnose, with a nice inspection cover, there.... no.
nor can you remove this missing cover and see the core ICE up, (yes, another class of failure and kEY symptom for accurate diagnosis)
what does under the roof mean? (hood?)
the machanic said 3c or 4c, but the official table from SUZUKI contradicts your mechanics words.
3c , is a false proclamation. pure. find a new A/C man.IMO
each car is different.
the size of the cores matter, when its hot and for sure when the car is in a country with huge humidity 70 to 90% there is HUMID.
and the evap core has a fixed size and is unique to this car, and that table is for YOUR car , not a LEXUS.
when the air is humid , that air is closer to water, not like like dry air. (as seen in Nevada desert)
it's near total water saturated air...
and that is heavy air, called more dense.
and that more dense air takes more energy to cool it , at the evap core. this is why the air temps are not good, when humid. (per posted table above, for your car)
the vent can not be 3c, for the air to be 3c there, the core would need to be below 0c. (see?) and if at 0c, that humid air freezes and ice builds and block the core.
3c is BOGUS.
tell me why 3c, is a demand... would love to hear why.?
(05-28-2016, 10:51 PM)rasmeidirt Wrote: Vent is 8C is under the roof. The mechanic says it should be either 3 or 4. (this is bogus)
Outside the shop in the sun is around 40C (ambient temperature). yes, hot,
Humidity outside? They do not have the tool to tell me!! (you dont need a tool, call the local radio station he knows,as does your air port)
Idle speed is 1000RPM because AC is engaged. (done wrong, 2000 rpm is spec, test speed, ) sorry, do the tests correctly.
You said it is cold, unless we drive the car under the roof! (i have no idea what that means.... you need to type a long story on that)
A/C is not magic, it has great limits. That table lists them clearly and is for your car not a LEXUS.
it does not cool the same way at all temps and humidity,
i posted the official suzuki table to you , and shows the performance.
seems in the shop , (in a covered garage (roof?) the AC does 8c at vents parked, 8c exceeds factor spec, for sure. 8c is super cold.
what have you not said, (lots) when does the AC work good, ?
works perfect at 100kmh, ? on a real road, at 40c ambient. im sure its 70% humidly there in your country, use a real weather report yours, is lacking.
Driving for 20 miles, not 1 mile, (it takes a very long time to cool off a 40C 2000 pound car.)
if the performance is lacking , when,under what conditions? (tell all conditions, pretend the web helper cant driver your car)
below 20mph, or only parked, (stopped)
when the performance lacks do you exit car and open the hood to see if the compressor is engaged>?
when performance is lacking does the front condenser fan run fast?
these facts and 100s more is why web help can not ever do you any good.
and the lack of tools.
after all you are asking for help , SECOND guessing your mechanic.
ok roof , is enclosed shaded garage.
but the air is still 40c.
the only difference parked out side, is how long it takes car to cool down,. answer can take 20miles of fast driving,
your high side pressure look low but since RPM is not 2000 , i cant really comment.
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - rasmeidirt - 07-10-2016
Hi, I managed to buy the 1996 Suzuki Sidekick Supplementary Service Manual 1800 (99501-61A20-33E). But still it has nothing to say about the AC data for the 1996 Sports. However, it describes how to dismantle the compressor.
The only data I found the amount of oil supplied from factory is filled up is:
HFC-134a (R-134a) compressor oil capacity in A/C systems: 150cm3 (150cc, 9.2 cu.in.).
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - fixkick - 07-10-2016
the sport is uniquely documented. (horrid pops to mind)
they assume you have a G16 FSM book that covers the wrong body, and engine ) horror 1.
then published a supplement, that is a half arsed attempt at the job, whats different, (well lots )
the G16, car has add on A/C its optional and includes a full harness that is added.
what they do in J18 sports, ive not a clue. the car is super rare car, the MFG numbers are tiny.
what most do is use the rules the compressor maker publishes. (after all that is what you are protecting , this)
it's like 8% oil? but that varies by volume of compressor and all pipe and the condenser and evap, and Receiver drier.
that is why the Suzuki books only need to be consulted, most suzuki (oil volumes), if you take off the grill there is tag there, stating, volumes of R134a and oil.
The oil volume varies by what service is done.
complex that, what is changed out or now, what is flushed and not.
the engines is just an under-stroked, J20, with same parts, mostly.
wide, frame rail car. (later became grand vitara)
lots of changed parts all over the body, it really is a total new generation. car. over the G16 and is OBD2 compliant too. so vast changes... from any 1995 car.
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - rasmeidirt - 07-10-2016
Well, I am still hunting for two more books to complete the set for the Sport.
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - fixkick - 07-16-2016
not an easy task, set up watches on ebay, and wait up to year to find one. but the one you have not the hardests, 10x so...
you are lucky to have it.
cheers
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - rasmeidirt - 07-16-2016
Yes it is. Amazon has them, but it does not ship to the country!
I now have both 96 and 97. The 97 describes the AC performance test, not in the 96. I think they are still the same or something different???
I see that not only the Sport has the supplement, but the standard Sidekick also has them!!!
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - rasmeidirt - 07-19-2016
Hi, somebody has informed me to find the Suzuki Automotive AC System (99963-0501-139). Have you heard about this book? If it is, would it cover the 1996 Sport AC?
Thanks,
RE: Replacing the A/C Compressor - fixkick - 07-20-2016
there are many supplements,
engines, EFI systems., A/C , SPORT , transmission x,y, z. all of them.
amazon is just marketing front, you do know its mostly drop ship, front right, and on the bottom of amazon is sold used , things, and from an endless list of suppliers, even guys working out a 1 car garage, right, same as ebay, even same as walmart now.. they list things sold in other stores.... its a new connected world now and is not really understandable, truely, all you can do
is learn brands part numbers and search.
i have not seen all books by suzuki, not even close. who has?
not sure what you are doing or attempting
but in an AC shop they only need to know 2 things.
1:volume of the compressor. (its probably being change now after so long of service, ) and the new compressor has sheet tell him that. clear as day.
2: and the suzuki secret, the volume of the system, and this is published, if you search AC on this forum you will find one long post here and discloses all that. data.
the total total volume is the 2 above added, and we then see that same compressor sheet and it says, tells you the needed R134a by weight, and the oil volumn (about 8% IIRC>?)
that is all that is needed those 2 numbers, and when you know 134 volume the oil is computed using the rules dictated by the compressor maker, after all its their compressor.
see page 6 here, and SANDEN quote.
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/showthread.php?tid=862&highlight=compressor
what matters is:
what new parts added.
was the system flushes, in a real shop it will be. for many reasons, contaminates, and not ever wanting to mix oils, that be bad idea.... (old with new)
same page
see that photos
see the 21 ounces. r134
and 5oz (centered average) of oil>?