Clutch Release Shaft - Printable Version +- Car Repair Forum (https://fixkick.com/forum) +-- Forum: Suzuki (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-suzuki) +--- Forum: Sidekick/Tracker (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-sidekick-tracker) +--- Thread: Clutch Release Shaft (/thread-clutch-release-shaft) |
RE: Clutch Release Shaft - sina27 - 01-28-2020 (11-13-2019, 11:27 PM)Hello,Wondering if you know the part number for #20 and #25? I\m not sure if I see #25 on my car. So - What just happened was that I kept having to tighten the clutch cable over and over, and then the clutch pedal broke off the weld. I went ahead and replaced the entire clutch pedal assembly. The clutch cable is a BECK and its only a year old. To be on the safe side, I ordered a new OEM Suzuki clutch cable (has not arrived yet). However - right now with the new clutch pedal assembly, the clutch still feels "off" - After the car is warmed up, I hear a "creaking" sound when I press the clutch in and out - and the sound comes from the area where the lever / cable / bracket is, around where part number #20 is. I think part number 20 may be old and may have some flex during clutch engagement, so I want to replace it just to be safe. Also - part number #10 (lever), the screw nut #18 is screwed over 70% of all the threads on the cable. When the lever #10 is relaxed (about 1mm from hitting the TO bearing), it is not completely perpendicular to the clutch housing, it sits angled towards the clutch bracket #20 (by about 10 degrees). Does this mean when I press in the clutch, the clutch lever is moving "upwards" instead of parallel in relation to the cable, causing it to stretch and damaging my pedal assembly and part #20? Maybe this is why I hear that weird sound? The lever #10 was never been properly aligned with shaft #5, when the mechanic installed the new clutch and transmission a couple years back, there was an arbitrary mark drawn on the shaft where it should mount with the lever....so not sure if that was installed properly....and if the lever isnt sitting on the right position on the shaft, then maybe this is the source of the trouble I'm having? Any advice would be appreciated so I don't end up breaking my new pedal assemblyThanksSina Wrote: ok, the shaft is side held by those bussing, and yes, they are , nylon. (best guess) RE: Clutch Release Shaft - fixkick - 01-29-2020 are you doing ok here.. (no photos of your cars cable at 20 by you makes this super hard) posted. the parts that mark is NOT arbitrary at all that is factory made alignment marks. do so, there is mark on the pedal top end right side end spin shaft that must be aligned. the GM tracker updates on the cable parts and part #20 did NOT happen on the same Vin # cars, at all so part 20/14the end of 14 cable on the most new 96s up, have rubber drop in mount. NO MORE NUTS on the end of the cable, not 18/19 but at 20 input. point. there is NOT just one cable, made, 2door, 4door, 8 and 16v.. part 25 is below the RAD it hold the cable from shifting at bottom or Radiator. same as 24 does up stream. You said, creaking? I hear a "creaking" sound when I press the clutch in and out - and the sound comes from the area where the lever / cable / bracket is, ok when you push the clutch pedal in, and you hear it creak, at that exact point you stop your foot movement does the sound end.? yes, that is cable noise no, that is throwout bearing noise. learn this next trick. T.out noise, test.1: cable end dropped off. car idling move lever 10 by hand , as it moves easy the T.out hits the PP, finger inside, if noise starts up the T.O is bad, or horrifice PP finger damage. ive no idea what cable you have (maker yes, p/n NO) there is not just one cable, ok? lets do rules. first.. no cable buy. part 25 must align to the factory spline end first. https://fixkick.com/tranny/clutch/mikes-clutch91/shrunk/html/image_1.html and https://fixkick.com/tranny/clutch/mikes-clutch91/shrunk/images/clutch-pedal-show%20(15).jpg next the titty mark. https://fixkick.com/tranny/clutch/mikes-clutch91/shrunk/html/image_7.html the adjustments are all in the 1996 FSM manual did you read that? find that yet, in POST one of this forum, the 1st sticky post? now cables 101 https://fixkick.com/tranny/clutch/clutch-on-kick.html#Clutch-Cables there are many cable, GEN1 and GEN2 are nut end and no nut rubber end see on 1996 first. RE: Clutch Release Shaft - fixkick - 01-29-2020 the 96 factory cable is here . 23710-57BA0[old] (57B12 new #) 16v only and will not fit any 1992-95 ,unless upgraded. nor will old 8v cables (now gone 1996) fit this car. ok.? 92-95 only nutted end cables...P/N below, ::::: no rubber mount 16v only. 23710- 57B11 (obsolete at Suz says use B12) the matrix table here covers this. https://fixkick.com/tranny/clutch/clutch-on-kick.html#Clutch-Cables does not cover all brands, if the cable is rubber mounted, end, (not that end bellows rubber, deal forget that) the rubber mount means, 1996 and newer car. that is the CHANGE YEAR. 96 cars are made July 1995 and the first week of making any 96, it can have 95 parts there, not smog related. no photos of your cable posted, so answers helping are impossible and way too long. sorry. the is the 16v 1996 CHANGE over NEW GEN2, CABLE< GOT THIS< OR NOT? see the arrow there, that arrow screams 96 up. if your mount. is wrong and is 1995 mount Gen1, the cable below is WRONG, no photos of your mount shown. in 2007 I scanned the GM micro fiche, micro films, (have em I do) the cables are tricky, for sure me not seeing your. part ID 20 bracket. and see these GM P/N. ending in 996 I even decoded GM , codes. like LS5 etc. I can do same on SUZUKI Parts lists actual, if needed and cross them I can. if you posted photos, for sure. my Ufilms prove Trackers are not just in N.America.. see that? shocking yes. RE: Clutch Release Shaft - sina27 - 01-30-2020 Thanks for the reply - I will try and take a photo. To answer some of your questions: The current cable I am running on my 96 is indeed the "rubber mount" version. It is the Beck Arnley 093-0642, which was recommended by your website (thank you!) I ordered a genuine suzuki cable which is on its way, part 23710-57B12. So my cable is correct. The creaking sound is definetly not TO bearing. It is possible that my cable is not routed correctly - the cable routes downwards, clamps a few inches away from the power steering belt, and then routes under the radiator (the radiator has a built in cable holder which the cable sits in). Maybe the cable is shifting around at the bottom of the radiator? I can try and reinforce the cable with some zip ties down there. I'll try and take a photo The creaking sound seems to be from some sort of incorrect tension somewhere around the clutch shaft / actuator, the creaking sound is only heard when i press in the clutch and depress it slowly; if i hold the clutch in halfway, no sound is heard. So it could be the cable, cable routing, or improper cable mounting. Now for the most important thing - what you call the "titty mark" at the clutch actuator / clutch shaft - so I understand that the factory aligned them as so: https://fixkick.com/tranny/clutch/mikes-clutch91/shrunk/html/image_7.html A couple years ago before I bought this car, the trannny was rebuilt and a new clutch was installed by a mechanic . When I inspected the "titty mark", the alignment was WAY off, and an arbitrary mark was drawn on the clutch shaft by the mechanic inidicating thats where the "new" alignment should be. If I were to remove the actuator and install it according to the original factory titty mark, the actuator would be WAY off (it wouldnt be perpindicular to the bell housing) and the clutch would not be able to engage. Does that mean that something was installed incorrectly during the tranny rebuilding process? Should I resort to removing the transmission, and replacing the shaft, TO bearing, actuator, spring, etc..? I'm just trying to wrap my mind around how the clutch shaft is initially aligned during installation in the first place.. I quickly made a drawing of what I mean about the clutch actuator: Your photo linked about shows the actuator angled away from the front of the car - is this how it should be in its relaxed position? Is it angled that far left just before it comes into contact with the TO bearing? If I remove my clutch cable from the actuator and let it relax, it looks like this (look at the green line, the actuator is angled very slighty towards the front of the car. [/url] [url=https://imgur.com/a/cyowjVG]https://imgur.com/a/cyowjVG So if my lever is angled to forward, then when I press in the clutch the lever may move too far forward and cause excess tension, correct? Maybe I should angle the actuator like how you have it shown in the image RE: Clutch Release Shaft - fixkick - 01-30-2020 (01-30-2020, 01:53 AM)sina27 Wrote: Thanks for the reply - I will try and take a photo.gawd knows what clutch he used inside or TObearing? my photo is 100% factory way for sure (I had 3 cars all 3 the same mark and later set right after new clutch I put in.) not sure if bell is on car or not and fitted up, I FORGET) sorry. seen some real crap clutches sold on fleabay, pure junk.(china crap has no limit on crap) the maker ,I USED EXEDY , or he use 8valve clutch on 16valve engine. wrong that is. the 16v is tad bigger. diameter disk, and matching PP. if you get all this wrong that lever, this SMACKS to me of wrong clutch if you had right clutch and put the lever wrong, it makes pedal act way wrong, and hard to slip the clutch driving, that is because of the 2 levers landing on the front of the TOBearing I can not fathom why any mechanic would move lever 10, not any reasons of any kind, its all wrong that. that titty is just factory punch mark, and is very important to get that right for the right feel of the clutch. well at least the 2wd is 10x more easy to work on lacking transfer case. the bell cross clutch lever is in nylon bushings and you can oil them if one squeaks. lightly. other possible (the lever is bent inside, 100bls of foot pressure can be 600 lbs of pressure at the TO bearing face ( and if last person had seized to shaft bearing, (TO) i can see that the fingers might bend there, and mechanic loath to fix this right (new parts) part ID #5 is my topic on this line. damaged, inside. A TOB (throw out ) bearing can fail and go red hot and seize and strong driver (gorilla like) can wreck and wreck the pedals and the fire wall cracked. sadly only close inspections find any of these , failures. the cable too can be lubricated, using PEN oil, spray, that will not dry out like WD (blue /yellow/white ) can does. or silicon spray oil. hope you solve your riddle I do and soon, good luck to you for sure, wish was there to add helping hands.... RE: Clutch Release Shaft - fixkick - 01-30-2020 here is the 96 clutch page page 7 covers that match index mark,(titty) it also covers pedal match mark too and both are important for good clutch feel. driving. on same PDF are you missing part seen in figure 13 , ID, 735 see page 13 too, with care. all in all , the clutch manual is very good, 1996, it is. the real deal but shows wrong cable. pin figure 9,. it shows the 1992 to 95 cable but I fully believe they changed the cable to newer rubber end in middle of july 1995 July1 1995 started making OBD2 1996 cars in the CAMI plant. and some parts lagged until parts bins went dry, (many folks have had this problem) gen1 or Gen2 cables. the book 1996 is GMs (marked preliminary and is full of errors, even showing wrong distributor and timing and parts there, and those are errors in the book) but you have newer 96 with rubber cable. and matching mount. and is AOK that for sure. RE: Clutch Release Shaft - sina27 - 01-30-2020 Thanks. I will try and re-adjust the lever by eye for the time being, and if that fails I guess I will try and install a new clutch myself (the brand you recommended), and while I'm doing that I might as well replace the TOB and the clutch shaft part number 5, as well as the two nylon bushings, and the spring that shaft sits in RE: Clutch Release Shaft - fixkick - 01-30-2020 (01-30-2020, 05:17 AM)sina27 Wrote: Thanks. your are welcome try to get the lever set correct , right side of bell. , and get the cable end with free play set correct. it should work if not the plot thickens. crossing fingers for you, something simple... cheers ! RE: Clutch Release Shaft - sina27 - 01-30-2020 IAfter taking a look I’m convinced that the problem is internal in the bell housing, thinking it’s a bent shaft. In addition to the clutch & TO bearing (which I'll order from US) - I'm going to order the shaft, lever (lever spline doesnt look great), TO pin, shaft spring, shaft bushings from megazip. Never done something like this before, so hopefully I get it right. If you think theres anything I left out please let me know! Here is the list of stuff I'm going to order (clutch & bearing not listed): https://imgur.com/a/Kshs4Fk cheers! RE: Clutch Release Shaft - fixkick - 01-30-2020 (01-30-2020, 08:05 AM)sina27 Wrote: IAfter taking a look I’m convinced that the problem is internal in the bell housing, thinking it’s a bent shaft. In addition to the clutch & TO bearing (which I'll order from US) - I'm going to order the shaft, lever (lever spline doesnt look great), TO pin, shaft spring, shaft bushings from megazip.see my tranny pull page? just ignore transfer case statements and front pro shaft, the car is easy, so high off ground. lots of room there. under. https://www.fixkick.com/tranny/clutch/new-clutch-howto.html only real trick , is not let engine tilt back and crush distributor. it pulls just like most MT car trans. jack stands best lacking lift, 4 stands is more safe no chance of rolling, ah trick 2, is frame off floor, 1 inch more that bell housing is round..... easy to forget this, it is. frame to ground distance. drain the box first. as tail shaft yoke pulled it will leak lots of GL4 lube. pull side plug on the box first, or refilling will be impossible. (not top load box no fill there) It's actually fun, a project that lets you see all parts and condition. make sure the tranny pilot shaft, (not a wreck on splines, and grabbed by hand ,as not lateral play or the bearing there is NO GOOD nor is its seal. here is hoping you get no surprises. and be safe. cheers. |