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+--- Thread: x-90 P0335 code (/thread-x-90-p0335-code)
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 02-26-2019
or get a nice 2002 jeep wrangler ,my fav. year. (reason = less puters)
and endless parts cheap, jeep has vast 3rd party parts resources unlike any suzuki here.
abs and traction controls are a pain, just ask how my dealer wrecked my jeep (perfect) by doing a recall. (buggered the job)
for folks that drive modern jeeps top down in the rain, oops. (water proof steering brains) omg.
But I do love 1991 to 1995 sidekicks, 8v for there great simplicity and super reliability and 5 years of same ECU. (spares too) (sidekicks, trackers vitara and z90 sure 96)
RE: x-90 P0335 code - CSUSBgeochem1 - 03-29-2019
Sorry for the long wait!! Well the conversion fell through at the moment so Im focused now on this sensor. I repaired the keyway just like you have on your page. Was able to get my hands on the Locktite 660 quick metal. I tried to get the center of the key lined up with the line on the cog and the arrow on the pump housing the best i could. Having the head off the block made it easy to see when the piston was flush with the block and at TDC. I let it sit for 2 days then took an impact to the crank bolt so i know its tight.
I threw everything back together and am still getting the code. Plug was replaced with a new one so thats fine. I backprobed the ECU for input from the CKP and it shows the AC voltage. I also tested the CMP at the ECU and saw 2.4v on the DMM. Also checked the reference voltage of the ECU and it was at a perfect 5v.
Everything is lined up at the crank cog and cam. Im a little frustrated at this moment. I will make SURE the reluctor wheel is right on the sensor when the cam is lined up but after that im not sure. What do you think so far?
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 03-29-2019
(03-29-2019, 12:50 PM)CSUSBgeochem1 Wrote: Sorry for the long wait!! Well the conversion fell through at the moment so Im focused now on this sensor. I repaired the keyway just like you have on your page. Was able to get my hands on the Locktite 660 quick metal. I tried to get the center of the key lined up with the line on the cog and the arrow on the pump housing the best i could. Having the head off the block made it easy to see when the piston was flush with the block and at TDC. I let it sit for 2 days then took an impact to the crank bolt so i know its tight.
I threw everything back together and am still getting the code. Plug was replaced with a new one so thats fine. I backprobed the ECU for input from the CKP and it shows the AC voltage. I also tested the CMP at the ECU and saw 2.4v on the DMM. Also checked the reference voltage of the ECU and it was at a perfect 5v.
Everything is lined up at the crank cog and cam. Im a little frustrated at this moment. I will make SURE the reluctor wheel is right on the sensor when the cam is lined up but after that im not sure. What do you think so far?
TDC crank:
crank TDC at piston is, turn crank CW to TDC then do it in reverse CCW up. and the different of the 2 checks is true TDC. The key was perfect, but now finding true TDC, must be done carefully. from 2 directions, CW and CCW, then tRUE TDC is in the middle of those 2 marks.
The instruction for the special tool. explains this technique... i can also show links to this method. (some motorcycles have no TDC marks so this is a known method)
CMP comments:
CMP did you first set spark timing to spec? (using the timing freeze jumper? hot 800 RPM?) The ecu uses CMP to see CKP errors.
Read that as the ECU assumes the CMP is OKAY, then measures CKP for errors. (this is all it knows is that and drop outs of CKP)
CMP is hall sensor with perfect square-wave. 0 , 5v then 0v.
CPM below photo: ,
(if using a DMM< gee 1000s of models of DMM made and all do different things) but using DCV may show 1/2 of the signal due to DMM averaging, but if dead the there is no spark nor any fueling ever. with dead CMP. and mostly never fails. but timing wrong can cause errors and odd DTC's.
If you had true RMS DMM and used ACV, AC volts it might read 5vac. (IDK , I do not have such a meter TRUE RMS they are expensive)
CMP on a real scope:
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/CAS-91.jpg
Theory:
The CKP failure is 1 or 2 ways ( dropouts, or way off timed, I am not sure if both ways are true but is on 99% of all cars made)
for sure dropout is 1 sure way it sets DTC 335. (1 in 20? misses) it sets.
The spark timing would be good to set first.
The CKP might work better.... with timing set right (spark timing with timing light (witht iming freeze jumper inserted in DLC jack)
bad CKP, or being stood off the block too far, by illegal pan gasket, there is no 96-98 shipped new out of factory with any pan gasket. ever.
the CKP tone wheel cog ,does it have the same number of teeth like my photos? not some cog off some , Esteem G16B?
The wiring bad. (means connectors too) CKP
The shields on that CKP cable not grounded. (or on custom harnessed , missing?)
Cam belt jumping around due to not setting the tension per the manual ( the hand turning steps (2 turns) then lock down method)
more RARE:
Loose cam. end to end there is Huge cog wheel front that can crack or go lose, and the gear on the back end lose or same on the matching gear in the distributor bottom end lose. (has locking pins on dizzy gear. see some with carpenter nails for pins.)
I think the cam gear is pressed on with huge force and not pinned.
I'd make sure the cable for the CKP is prefect. sure would,
I do not think the ECU is bad, the inputs are super well protected inside.... but.... anyone saying this can be wrong but , here I said it. ( :0)
that is what comes to mind, this AM. good luck to you and your G16B
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 03-29-2019
x90 1996, I think has same ECU (mostly same, might have its own smog tuning but is same for diagnosis)
That connector CMP looks to me as signs of other owners hacking in some other electronics to this sensor. seems cut on purpose to me....
if they did that who knows what else on this wire other cuts. to get at it , anywhere alone that path.
Examples are (remote start devices) from hell. attempted but failed and then has damage (any) in the attempt.
My sons car had Alarm from hell. installed and this killed the alternator dead due to wiring hacks , and small fire.
Wiring hacks on key engine EFI functions can go very wrong.
if you want to wire the ECU CMP feed , i can recommend the correct wire, 2 wire shield it must be.
the shield is not shown in the schematic and is (I think) grounded on only 1 end , the ECU end. and this keeps noise on the line to zero, a must
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/1996/EFI3.jpg
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 03-29-2019
is this car automatic or stick? 4wd? oops its 2wd stick now , soon to be 4wd stick sorry forgot.
the ECU P/n is this car fitted with wrong ECU>?
33920-xxxxxxx means ECU
so 33290-79E01 is MT- USA , X90 only ! THIS IS YOURS RIGHT? E01 ECU !
E21 is AT USA
E11 is AT Calif.
E31 and E71 are canada. only
what is yours/, wrong number? or for wrong country? IDK but the sticker i the case side shows this number.
the usa sidekick ecu uses
71E or 78Exx ecu never 79E series. I do not even know of the connectors match for sidekick or x90, x90 books are rear.
the CMP is HALL the, CKP is not HALL , Hall senors need a power wire so that means they have 3 wires, power, ground and signal out. the CKP on this car is just a coil of wire and my be fix magnet biased but what matters is the signal;
this CKP may be a VR sensor, a coil. some cars with the VR sensor need 200m other need a full volt (1000mV) just to trigger the ECU.
The Hall sensor has an amplifier and works like a switch , making clean square wave
the VR sensor makes only pulses.
The CKP input to most ECU have (VR) zero crossing detector. And for sure has a minimum input that I do not know (here) some cars can trip with 200mV other need 500mV (.5v)
I do not have the signal (CKP) spec but 500mV output at idle seems ok to me.
you get 0.5v ckp at idle. but I wonder if that signal makes it to the ECU. (ok 2wd 4speed stick, i missed that sorry.)
this is not suzuki CKP but is a VR CKP,from other car. (forgot what) but is weak. as low as 350mV above and below zero crossover.
![[Image: cpk-vr-coil.JPG]](http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/cpk-vr-coil.JPG)
the 2 types of sensor is done well here.
![[Image: 3_29_03_19_11_03_54.gif]](http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_29_03_19_11_03_54.gif)
RE: x-90 P0335 code - CSUSBgeochem1 - 04-02-2019
So i read everything and i have had some success but wanted to run it by you. I checked to make sure the belt was tight and everything was perfect when it comes to timinng the crank, cam and distributor. The code was still being thrown so i took your advice and went to time it with the strobe.
When i inserted the freeze jumper to the DLC the CODE DISAPPEARED! When ran with the short there is no code thrown. I accidentally broke my timing light and need to pick a new one up today but ill make sure to time it correctly. I hope this fixes the problem but its nice to see the engine not throwing a code. Ill check to see if the ECU is the right one as it has a giant Mitsubishi logo on the case so i definitely need to check that.
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 04-03-2019
(04-02-2019, 11:56 PM)CSUSBgeochem1 Wrote: So i read everything and i have had some success but wanted to run it by you. I checked to make sure the belt was tight and everything was perfect when it comes to timing the crank, cam and distributor. The code was still being thrown so i took your advice and went to time it with the strobe.
When i inserted the freeze jumper to the DLC the CODE DISAPPEARED! When ran with the short there is no code thrown. I accidentally broke my timing light and need to pick a new one up today but ill make sure to time it correctly. I hope this fixes the problem but its nice to see the engine not throwing a code. Ill check to see if the ECU is the right one as it has a giant Mitsubishi logo on the case so i definitely need to check that.
OK this is how PCM work
with the jumper inserted the PCM (ecu) goes into a very special mode, in this case it freezes timing, spark. and also will be very upset if you drive like that and burn up the CAT, (it will go red HOT from unburned fuel lacking proper spark advaNCE) AND WILL IN FACT THROW A DTC, code for driving link that,
Idling is Ok. Frozen advance.
I can also name many other things that hide 335 or any 300s codes.
300s are misfire codes, the ECU hides all those in limhome mode, (dead sensors cause that)
the 420 code is hidden if the the front 02 is bad. after all how can it test the rear if the front is dead,
OBD2 logic is complex. the rule is fix lower codes first, then when those are cured, you may get more codes, as you fix things more OBD2 live testing WAKES UP and runs, those are all called OBD2 Monitors (live diagnostics they are)
my spark page also covers all ways for the freeze to fail.
1: engine not HOT 180F or more, or the ECT is lying dog. (bad) or thermostat missing or dead or weak or wrong one.)
2: hot idle not 800RPM + - 50 rpm,
3: idle switch on TPS not stuck at 5v, 0vdc is closed, and must be or freeze can not do its job, and is calibration of the TPS wrong.
4: huge vacuum leaks that make RPM wrong. (or other air fuel issues, extreme wrong causing IDLE speeds wrong) even EGR leaking.
learn that fuel can not be burned fully with advance at 0 advance, (other than at idle) The whole purpose of advance is to burn all fuel at any RPM and any engine load. this is true on all gas (petro) otto cycle engine's ...
The timing freeze real name is.
test switch terminal.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/IGN-FREEZE.HTML
I like to call this freeze, to make this clear.
later Suzuki removed this and only suzuki scan tools can do this, until the COP spark engines happened.
the J18 and J20 engines the CKP sensors sets spark timing exactly behind the flywheel and no distributor at all called DIS , ignition.
but your car is distributor timed, once timed the ECU does advance with MATH.
pure math,
total advance = base + CPU math advance. ( on modern cars BASE is now non adjustable with a very precision CKP sensor and mount with no slots)
timing freeze , sets math advance to 0... making only the mechanical base stop bolt on the distributor base sets static timing
or cam timing way off. and is always first and the belt set right, not too tight or too loose.
if loose it bounces (cam and spark)
if set too tight the belt will die soon from huge stresses. the tension only gets set every 60,000 miles , new belt day.
the very tiny spring there (below cam cog) does that, and then it is locked down, for 60,000 miles.
the cam will not jog or jitter, if done right. (the steps are a pain G16B , 16v, as all lash must be set loose to get the belt tension correct, yes trick)
the cam has huge bias with the 16x lash set to spec. and means the belt can NOT be tension-ed at all like that, so read only the G16B procedures not A.
if you ignore that fact above, the belt will be way too LOOSE!!!
OBD2 , P0300 codes will trip if the belt runs loose. misfire, codes, need to know crank exact location and what cylinder is firing, exactly.
355 is pure ckp errors of some kind. (dead or dropouts and maybe (IDK) bouncing.
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 04-03-2019
the engine is free running but may not be of head milled to extremes, (see it) and lash set crazy wrong too tight. (or both) but mostly can be ignored this worry. "interference"
Some heads in some wild shops get milled 5 times in 30 years (, and valve kiss the piston tops fly cut outs) 1989 heads, seen it.
One friend of mine, his head has crazy high compression ratio now (milled wrong), and no spare heads in his country, and runs custom spark timing to end the PING. (endless if not)
One thing is to expect very bad things on old cars, as others hack away with wild ideas.
This guy has J20 compression on G16a engine. wild.
RE: x-90 P0335 code - CSUSBgeochem1 - 04-04-2019
So i have set the timing.
Calibrated the TPS to spec.
The ECU is the right one E01.
The wiring is good because i see signal from both sensors when backprobing the ECU.
The CKP plug i replaced with a new one. Im not sure about the sheathing.
Also im sure the belt is tight, but never loosened the valves. I did the 2 rotations and lockdown method though.
Im considering replacing the distributor to make sure its not the CMP. Other than that im clueless. Iv timed a few of these suzukis so i know the timing between the crank and cam is on. Yes the crank cog has the right number of teeth.
If i had an oscilloscope i could test the sensors or signal more accurately but its a tool i have yet to purchase.
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 04-04-2019
yes, that is good go, but what about a new CKP? (or buy a new one, and first test the old one ground off the end 1/16" grind off exactly the thinkness of the illegal pan gasket.)
you (or whom ever) are not the first person to do the pan gasket trick and most fail. (for this exact thing) some get lucky, and it works, sure.
try new wires ? buy 2 conductor, shielded cable. ( last resort)
run a new cable from CKP to ecu
then ground the shield to the ECU mounting bolt. this will make the noise on the 2 wires inside, the most small possible.