+- Car Repair Forum (https://fixkick.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Suzuki (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-suzuki)
+--- Forum: Sidekick/Tracker (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-sidekick-tracker)
+--- Thread: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start (/thread-1998-sidekick-sport-auto-no-key-start-push-button-start)
RE: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start - fixkick - 12-10-2018
yes, the TPS on this car is super easy to unlike that tricky G16
you just set the voltage. while loss screws to an exact voltage
there is no TPS idle switch on this TPS>
0.5vdc hot idle 800 rpm is the setting (easy as pie to set, no feeler gauges and bs)
that supper chips is good choice as it is 2008 and newer, so should all pins stated above,
2 , 7 and 10, I always hold any scan tool in hand , look at the plug in hand and go , are any pins missing? always must be done , and do this on first OBD2 cars, 1996-98 , first cars ever.
at the time and (early OBD2), many tools only did 1 ,2, 3 of the 4 protocols, and if missing will dead. for your car, (lucky not today)
Getting the scan tool working is prime importance.
Is your CEL glowing key on< then turns off when started.?? this is the first test on all OBD cars, and OBD2,
Your engine has 2 valves, that need service, ISC and EGR.
they gum up for sure old and parked, long times.
your EFI is 100% alien to the G16, all parts totally radically different (same is theory) but radial different in execution and design. (locates not same either
the MAF is married to the TB is the first huge clue.
here is your AIR side, parts
#6 (ISC/IAC) if stuck open will cause hard to start , needs hard fright foot to keep going.
![[Image: 18L227.jpg]](http://www.fixkick.com/engine/18L/18L227.jpg)
RE: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start - fixkick - 12-10-2018
SEE THIS PAGE YET,?
THIS SHOWS THE IAC PLUNGER DEVICE, IF DEAD COLD START EXTRA AIR WILL BE DEAD. AND WONT TO STALL ENGINE.
first test the plunger. It works exactly like the coolant thermostat with a wax core, that expands hot and cold fast idle ends as plunger retacts.
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/J18-idle.html
the Maf can be cleaned gently with mAF cleaner, or other plastic safe cleaners, with the nozzle stay at least 8" inches away, spray count to 30 , repeat say 3 times.
it is very delicate sensor do not blast it like mad or for sure dead close or $$$ costs.
the plunger holds the TV open, cold, it must.
then when not the plunger retracts leaving a GAP from it to the TB throttle bell crank (and cable)
i forgot i made that page 10 years ago.... for a friend with 1.8.
the thermostat must go to 180f and old and is the first test on all EFI cars made, but that takes scan tool to do that right.
the scan tools proves that works and the ECT sensor that read water temp, are both proven to work at the same time.
The EFI PCM runs differently cold engine and hot, totally.
any scan tool 2008 or newer will have all 4 sets of pins, and scan for sure any car made in USA 1996 to now.
RE: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start - fixkick - 12-10-2018
the J18 car has many DLC connectors, small ones are in engine bay.
some small for setting idle speed duty cycle and setting spark (freeze time)
the big connector does the brains scans, 16 pins, under dash, lower edged, some cars it got moved for folks moving it to a place that allows , OBD2 speedo or OBD2 gauges .
but if not messed with , it is here.
http://fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/1999.jpg
RE: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start - thebanjoman - 12-12-2018
(12-10-2018, 11:47 AM)thebanjoman Wrote:(12-09-2018, 09:00 AM)thebanjoman Wrote:(12-09-2018, 05:22 AM)fixkick Wrote: just like the internet (TCP-ip) and lots of ways to connect, up, to communicate (fiber/cable modem,/dialup./DSL, and SAT) once connected it works.
OBD2 is like that in that are are 4 ways to connect,
the connections all 4 use 4 sets of connection pins.
each uses different signal levels and a good too does all 4.
one way to do this is see what pins are wired in the scan too, most old tools are missing some the 4 sets of comm channels.
the worst is the $8 ELM tool that does not do all 4 not even close.
if the 97 ECU talks , why would the 98 not talk?
for now only what matters is not the computer or smart phone
what matters is hardware, if it works on all 4 levels of communications pin sets. only this matters first, if not 4 , then vast numbers of cars are not done.
wish I knew the exact scan tool you have,there are like 1000s now most are clones.
one of the best is this company that others clone 1/2 way.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H9S71LW/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00H9S71LW&pd_rd_w=eRlyx&pf_rd_p=f0dedbe2-13c8-4136-a746-4398ed93cf0f&pd_rd_wg=3MxDm&pf_rd_r=6QPTNA1T8J1RK6TRRSG3&pd_rd_r=7b75b395-fb1b-11e8-b9c1-d922174ca744
best is if it lists this, the CAN bus does all 2004? and newer cars.
once it connects you can scan all federal codes (P0xxxx ) engine codes. and see TCM codes too. both all federal, (p1xxx codes are there and are suzuki only codes) all readers ive seen can read P0 and p1 factory codes.
never seen any of these fail, ever, it does all cars made USA (sold here) 96+
https://www.scantool.net/
Legislated OBD-II protocols:
ISO 15765-4 (CAN 250/500 kbps, 11/29 bit)
ISO 14230-4 (Keyword Protocol 2000)
ISO 9141-2 (Asian, European, Chrysler)
J1850 VPW (GM)
J1850 PWM (Ford)
PCM
the non sport 96+ uses pin 2 and 10 (i traced every inch to prove that
then in 1999 uses pin 7 only. (for PCM)PCM/ABS/SRS all 3.
pin 7 is K-Line of ISO 9141-2 and ISO 14230-4
pin2/10 is SAE J1850 PWM only (not SAE J1850 VPW) ( I do not know if Suzuki uses VPW or PWM (guess this) on this pin and the scan tool must do both)
I have never traced a sport.
so if pins 2 or 7 or 10 on your scan tool has those pins missing , as is common, (for sure $8 scan tools) it will fail on many old suzuki's
best I can tell, lacking car in hand
is in 1997 suzuki switched form pin 7 only to pin 2/10 pair, for sure true on all G16s 96 to 98
knowing this one fact on suzuki you do know why those pins missing on any scan tool renders it useless for those years.
the years later want to CAN bus. 2004? and 2008 all are can bus.
that is why it is best to have a real scan tool, not a clone, 2008 or newer, so it does all cars
if you buy clone it can be just clone of 1996 and will not work. (missing pins are the top clue)
also on CANADA cars all I said above may not be true, they started OBD2 in 1998, what what is there IDK, (parts swapping out of country is super bad) PCM, but my FSM shows, canada listed for OBD2, 1996 so... must be voluntary.
here is my code list
see all sport codes here, see factory codes p1xxx
http://www.troublecodes.net/suzuki/
I'm well aware of TCP/IP I've been an iT guy for 35 years working with Unix even before the 'commercial Internet'.. ;-) I put National Public Radio (NPR) on the Internet back in late '94 when I was a manager there.
I'm making space to get it into the shop and should have the old one's frame on the trailer tomorrow and pulling wires and everything I can to save and then get what I can by the pound for it. Next weekend I am hoping to have some.
I also have an old 'superchips' programmer for my old Dodge that is supposed to read codes so I will throw that on it and see if it reads anything. Other than that I will have to get better tools.
We'll turn this into a learning experience and get as much info as we can and maybe it will be helpful to others.
Did some more messing with this vehicle. Further review of the parts bag that came with the truck is that they replaced the TPS with some form of NO NAME 'chinesium' TPS and pulled the HITACHI unit. I tested the HITACHI unit with a VOM and it does change resistance so I'm going to put back on the HITACHI unit and set the voltage and see if it makes any difference. I'm almost sure (but will verify) that the TPS on there now isnt' calibrated properly. I am not sure if I trust one with no markings at all.
Got ahold of a friends Scanner.. NO dice. I'll keep trying ones I can borrow ;-)
OK, PROGRESS
Took the advice and bought a new scanner. OBDLink XL
Had to pair it with my Honda to start with so I could get it on my phone and then could get and read the codes.
And there were MANY
P0123 - Throttle Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit High Input -- Need to adjust
P0102 - Mass Air Flow MAF Circuit Low - Start by cleaning it
P1500 - Engine Starter Signal Circuit Malfunction - Probably because of the external switch and
P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Malfunction - Probably out of adjustment, bad or OUCH - the PCM
P0505 - IAC Malfunction - Probably gummed up, try to clean
I have a great running motor to drop into this puppy but I want to go through the exercise of trying to fix each of these, or at least try to identify if cleaning or adjusting can get this motor running better. The only thing that concerns me is the details of the P0340 that it could be the ECM itself but I'll not entertain that thought. I have a spare Camshaft Position sensor so I can swap that if needed but I want to learn to properly test this stuff and not just be swapping parts and seeing what changes.
I'll start tracking things down.
Thanks for the tip of the new scanner. It was $50 but it seems to be worth it.
RE: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start - fixkick - 12-12-2018
wow you are fast mover like me 50 years ago.
P0123 - Throttle Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit High Input -- Need to adjust yes,
P0102 - Mass Air Flow MAF Circuit Low - Start by cleaning it , sure
P1500 - Engine Starter Signal Circuit Malfunction - Probably because of the external switch and (yes)
P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Malfunction - Probably out of adjustment, bad or OUCH - the PCM
P0505 - IAC Malfunction - Probably gummed up, try to clean
yes 340 is not good, cmp
cmp sensor is in the is on the cam left.
ckp is behind flywheel where no man can get. lucky you ! not bad!
so CMP is far more easy.
many this old leak oil inside and go funky puck kinds is optical too... (partly) and fails easy.
is your CMP on left cam hockey puck " only ?
timing on CMP is here
http://fixkick.com/IGN_timing/18L/all-IGN-timing-even18L.jpg
same with plastic sensor mounted to it (easy fix)
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Shame/CMP-CPS-CAS.html
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Shame/cam-angle-sender%20.JPG
before touching that left cam CMP sensor match mark it first, so timing is not lost.
if it has the plugin sensor on the puck, only that needs to be cleaned first, all the metal fuzz off the end. may do that.
the one with a plastic pull off lid one guy opened that, and found a bad O-ring and the leak cause failure. he found seals and posted them here somewhere. $150 sensor up.
the timing freeze jumper works on this car, and set to 5degree BTDC #1 spark plug. (tricky COPS need spark plug extender to set timing, inductive timing light)
RE: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start - thebanjoman - 12-12-2018
(12-12-2018, 10:16 AM)fixkick Wrote: wow you are fast mover like me 50 years ago.
P0123 - Throttle Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit High Input -- Need to adjust yes,
P0102 - Mass Air Flow MAF Circuit Low - Start by cleaning it , sure
P1500 - Engine Starter Signal Circuit Malfunction - Probably because of the external switch and (yes)
P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Malfunction - Probably out of adjustment, bad or OUCH - the PCM
P0505 - IAC Malfunction - Probably gummed up, try to clean
yes 340 is not good, cmp
cmp sensor is in the is on the cam left.
ckp is behind flywheel where no man can get. lucky you ! not bad!
so CMP is far more easy.
many this old leak oil inside and go funky puck kinds is optical too... (partly) and fails easy.
is your CMP on left cam hockey puck " only ?
timing on CMP is here
http://fixkick.com/IGN_timing/18L/all-IGN-timing-even18L.jpg
same with plastic sensor mounted to it (easy fix)
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Shame/CMP-CPS-CAS.html
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Shame/cam-angle-sender%20.JPG
before touching that left cam CMP sensor match mark it first, so timing is not lost.
if it has the plugin sensor on the puck, only that needs to be cleaned first, all the metal fuzz off the end. may do that.
the one with a plastic pull off lid one guy opened that, and found a bad O-ring and the leak cause failure. he found seals and posted them here somewhere. $150 sensor up.
the timing freeze jumper works on this car, and set to 5degree BTDC #1 spark plug. (tricky COPS need spark plug extender to set timing, inductive timing light)
I wouldn't call this 'fast' but I do tend to keep on a steady pace and I obsess.. I'm still making room for it in the shop and fiddle with it after work in the dark. It's been very cold here i Virginia so I spend some time with it and then go back into the warm shop to keep pulling stuff off the other one. I'm trying to pull the wiring harness off and keep it intact and that isn't easy so it's taking longer, The one I'm pulling apart has black plastic interior parts and the new one has gray. I'm switching over to black so the new one sits in the driveway until I can get stuff sorted out.
Now that i pulled the codes I saved them and cleared. I then checked all the connectors. Turns out the cam position sensor connector wasn't fully clicked in.
(A the joys of messing with something others were working on that didn't know what they were doing)
Now I just have
P0123 - Throttle Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit High Input -- Need to adjust yes,
P0102 - Mass Air Flow MAF Circuit Low - Start by cleaning it , sure
P1500 - Engine Starter Signal Circuit Malfunction - Probably because of the external switch and (yes)
And... I have a rear main seal leak, oil in the driveway so no matter what the trans is coming out to replace. And some form of a coolant leak, probably the lower tank. These are moving me closer to pulling the engine and sticking my new one in but I still want to see if I can easily solve these mysteries.
That new scanner is the SHI* !!
RE: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start - fixkick - 12-12-2018
that is super nice finding that expensive CMP loose, wow.
wise to pull harness, non of the connectors are sold now. nice to have spare.
102 is very important, next, air flow must read right and yours is stuck low, make sure its no loose this error is the MAF reads no in range,key on, blow normal range readings.
suzuki does not sell this MAF only whole TB with it for over $1000
I have the true model number in my my crude page below, the Hitachi it is ,even sold on amazon now very cheap. (you have spare I bet)
yes and that scanner does 2008 and newer cars too, on CAN-BUS, real nice tools they
make,
http://fixkick.com/buy-parts.html#MAF18
RE: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start - thebanjoman - 12-14-2018
(12-12-2018, 09:00 PM)fixkick Wrote: that is super nice finding that expensive CMP loose, wow.
wise to pull harness, non of the connectors are sold now. nice to have spare.
102 is very important, next, air flow must read right and yours is stuck low, make sure its no loose this error is the MAF reads no in range,key on, blow normal range readings.
suzuki does not sell this MAF only whole TB with it for over $1000
I have the true model number in my my crude page below, the Hitachi it is ,even sold on amazon now very cheap. (you have spare I bet)
yes and that scanner does 2008 and newer cars too, on CAN-BUS, real nice tools they
make,
http://fixkick.com/buy-parts.html#MAF18
Spent some more time with it. Did a few things I swore I wouldn't do, and properly test.
I swapped my MAF and ISC from my good motor.
Still getting a P0122 - because I haven't adjusted the TPS yet.
and now gettting a P0301 Cylinder 1 misfire.
The rest of the codes are gone, the motor still won't idle cold so onto more things to look at.
I suspect with all the 'fiddling' that has been done with this car, finding the timing off would not be out of the question.
I am also doing this in the dark with a little LED flashlight so looking for cracked hoses and the like will have to wait till daylight.
Getting closer.
RE: 1998 sidekick sport J18 DOHC problems - fixkick - 12-14-2018
how does it run now? power wise? and idle speeds hot. or still stalling?
does engine warm up and reach 180F to 200F , and hold there,? (many thermostats sold at 4 different temps so...) it must hold once warm.
the 122 is TPS not calibrated to 0.5vdc, (guess, last person set it zero volts DC, that be wrong 122 means too low at key on )
301, is #1 is misfiring badly. (spark bad, injector bad, compression way too low, etc) #1 swap COP 1 for COP2, if 302 now the COP is bad. or its cheap boot.
I do compression tests on any car first. at WOT, wide open throttle spark plugs out. 199 PSI warm or hot, J20 does that, J18 too I think (sealevel)
defeat spark or fueling to do the test. > (unplug 1.8L or larger engines, 4 COP connectors , J18, j20 or v6's) or pull the fuel pump relay.
the chain drive cam , if the chain is loose will generate random P030x codes, x = 0 to 4.
when all is perfect we can worry idle speeds last,, the TB has old start valve, in the arm there on the TB this device, open the throttle cold.
This device (coolant controlled) can stick closed or open and is so easy to see.
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/Sport-IAC.jpg
there are 2 IAC (the above and the electric IAC you just changed, make sure the above IAC retracts . first.\
the next screw might be messed up here, idle duty cycle setting screw. some one may have played here.
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/18L-ldle-screw.jpg
1: engine compression ok (done warm , all sparks out, WOT, wide open throttle( near open just block it open or hold foot on throttle so air can flow)
2: vacuum near 20 inches and steady hot idle.
3: spark plugs new? .028" gasped.
4: COP boots this old never work we change them out , cheap fix , the rubber boots, carbon tracked , spark fails., and cause spark misfiring.
5:isc , and egr valves cleaned, (ISC bolted to TB) the thermal iAC above, must work hot and cold it retracts hot.
6: engine warms up and reaches 180F or more. and holds. if not and water temps never cross the 150F line the EFI will inject wrong, like that endless.
7: idle rpm 800 hot, accessories off, on dash , no AC on for sure.
8: listen for bad cam CHAIN? IF BAD misfire codes go on forever.
9: now how does it drive now, all symptoms, needed to diagnose and all DTC errors doing so.
also some DTC codes need 2 or more key ON runs to set a DTC code, ( best is 2 driving cycles, or 3) for all codes to run.
these are called Monitors. and some do not run unless driven or at least 2 driving cycles, and full warm up cycles are completed.
also some DTCs codes do not get run until primary codes are cured first. (like the CAT tests and EGR tests are suspended unit primaries are cured)
122 is a primary code, (for sure idle will never work until this primary failures is cured)
this puts ECU also in to limphom mode. as the big books says fix all lower codes first. is well advised.
THe TPS reads 0vdc on its output pin, so the ECU suspends all idle controls and then goes to limphome mode. (aka, failsafe or just LIMP)
also with that dead, pin, the ECU also fails to run test that are for idle only.
fix 122 first
that is it for now, hope my list helps, this is the basics list, drive-ability is way more checks.
cheers
PS, the j18 DOHC, is very close to the J20 (era, not newer J20) engine, most parts on it swap, (base engine parts not most EFI parts)
some guys even put in J20 and was happy to run , under J18 ECU.96-98
bad gas< ? i car parked for over a year 1/8th full, not run daily ,bad gas tops the list as do clogged injectors (partial.?) and fuel filter packed full of crap.
the DTC test only fun fully with more than 1/4 tank of fresh fuel, (even P0300)
the DTC errors are like peeling and Onion the outer layer is first.
RE: 1998 sidekick sport auto - no key start - push button start - fixkick - 12-14-2018
IDLE speeds J18( response to have to hold foot in throttle and cant start or wont stay running cold.) besides bad fuel
link 2 above is the TB idle bleed screw. (red-neck way, said with love not hate) I love methods that work even off road far far from a shop of any kind.
it is only set this way. (if at all ever. but if molested by others do this)
1: engine hot.180f+ no DTC122 !!! no misfiring allowed, heard or seen DTC errors like P030x codes.
2: ISC ELECTRIC NOT JAMMED UP, it sets hot idle speeds. bolted to TB body, clean and free ISC.
3: the IAC water activated there IAC must now be retracted hot. (eyes only glance see its not touching TB arm)
4: engine races too fast or slow, for idle add air or subtract air with the TB bleed screw. if engine races, and this CW turns is no cure you have vacuum leaks.
6: if too slow idle, add air turn screw CCW, (out) and this adds missing air, and suddenly the ISC electric valve wakes up and 800RPM happens. turn crew 1/4 turn more CCW. for (for what I call DUTY centering) BTW perfect duty is 50% ISC ranged.
this not the official way in the book the book way is called IDLE duty cycle setting
( there is a pin on the under hood, DLC (6pins)) that is for dutycycle setting the ISC , precision settings) but the above can work if engine not SICK (misfiring is sick)
if cold started engine fails to race from 1000 to 1500 range (varies by outdoor temper.) J18 rules.
the IAC thermal device is bad. link 1 in post just above. it must hold the TB Trottle valve open cold , MUST, or will stall or fail to run once it does start.