REAR DIFF. LOCKERS FOR 1997 VITARA

[SrgBog]

Hello Dear mr. fixkick and all forum people.

Can you please recommend what is the best Lock-Right lockers for the rear diff. of 1997 LWB Vitara, A/T?

Does the 1510-LR would work good for this purpose or the 1532-LR should be better, or maybe some other lockers model will do better job ?

Thanks ahead !

[fixkick]

best in what way?
ratio's desired off road
life span
quality
support
easy of installation
and last what is the down side on pavement.

lots of things can be best. or just opinion., or experiences offroad can be unlimited needs.

that is the purpose....
is car a road car or off road only

if off road,is it fast moving car or a Crawler and jacker over boulder's car.
or desert racer?
or mud pit monster.
or sand dune runner.
the word infinite comes to mind, off road....

[SrgBog]

I use the car as a road car and as a off road car for trips on weekends.
I think it drives about 70% on road , and 30% off-road...
On the off road I don't drive fast - but I like to drive in mud

I made some research - and find out that the Lock Right 1510LR and the 1512LR are identical BUT the 1510LR comes with cross pins (1512LR don't come with cross pins).
The 1510LR are more cheaper because it have more sales.

The 1510LR can fit for Samurai/ Siera (front & rear) , Vitara (rear), GV (rear)...
Maybe 1510LR also can fit Jimny - but I am not sure about it.

If somebody know more information about those Lockers - it will be great to share that info here so it will help to others...

[fixkick]

mud, that says it all. really (open axles mostly useless here, so..)
but not sure your question?
gearing ? (ratios) and locks really this is
or quality of parts? (quality varies in time, in time , quality of any product can vary, and QC on gears is a tricky business (hardening tests, rockwell)
if the above is good, the life of the gears/lock will be good.
the person doing the work, installing all parts in the carriers, I'd bet this tops the most important, step for a long lasting carrier.
it can't just be throw together,,, not that ring and pinion. the carrier must be removed from the axle housing after axles out.
then the carrier is totally dismantled, and all calibrations of gear sets are lost... (the labor will be more than parts, if done right, (usa prices are not cheap )


better, in what way?
1510-LR would work good for this purpose or the 1532-LR

first to consider is what it does, it ends the side/spider gear actions, differential actions are now off line.
it forms now a slip ratchet plate that is locked up even on pavement, until you turn the car, and then those huge forces, cause the ratchet to break free
in turns, and annoying sound and it does.
It is not like real; LSD at all. it is a very crude device.. this.
this will be super dangerous on ice, if you drive car on ice or show this will be a doom thing. (skid it will, it cant help it)
id never use such a device on the pavement, ever. ID buy locker that I can command from the cab. ON,OFF,
the front axle is no problem in 2wd, if the hub lucks are, turned to unlock. but is a problem, in 4wd both end , on the iced up road.

watch out for reading opinions on the web, some never seen ice in there whole life....


like

http://www2.izook.com/?page_id=277

unlike real jeeps, there are not a lot of choices on lockers on underdog suzuki's (and will get worse as they stopped selling them in N.America)
LSD (real) (may not hold up well under heavy off road usage after all. it is a clutch)
Eaton centrifugal locker, (like my chev truck had) nICE!
electric locks. (best of best, and you get what you pay for......)
sold permanent locks, (never slips)
ratchet locks, (yours )
pure open diff, (stock) tire with least traction slips, unless you learn to drag brakes.(grin)
or a smart PCM brain, like my new JK jeep has, the brain, modulates the ABS to do the drag brake trick to make open axles, to not slip. (magic)


best has many parameters!
quality (lasts ,???? varies by who made them and when.. and QC done, if any at all. )
safety on and off road?
works on ice. good luck there,,,,,
lasts (on the road, i bet this is bad for the ratchets, no?)
easy to install (none are)
resale-ability, (try to explain to person selling to (not a rock crawler guy) how noise is ok turning on pavement. hummmmmm , a lost sale....
easy to use
works in mud. ,sand, ice, snow, dirt, gravel, and pavement)
noises ? that wife dont like driving to Church?

complex topic, cars can be driven on vast places on earth ,not one car made does that well.
zero.
there will be compromises and safety issues, for sure.

[SrgBog]

Thanks for your reply.
I live in Israel - we don't have ice here all the year.
Just on one mountain called "Hermon".

If I understand you right - after automatic lockers instalation I need to do calibrations of gear sets (ring and pinion) ?


I case somebody want to see -
Here is a video of how automatic lockers works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL0hPEOStGk

[fixkick]

do you have and FSM on this car,. it free online.
read the axle pages, yet, it tells ever itty bitty step there.
the gears are removed.
and when you do that, you lose the (meshup of the gears, non trivial that)
there are many types of lockers, endless, electric, vacuum , pressure, auto locks via Eaton centrifigle, ,yours are not auto locks they are auto unlocking, the are locked by default
the under huge forces turning on pavement, the crack free, on the ratchet faces, and ugly system that no OEM uses.
even turning car on a pavement covered in light sand can be dangerous, as it wants to unlock , lock and then repeats causing violent traction changes.... they are rude and crude devices. (as seen in vid)
IMO , offroad only, id never let my wife run these, not me...(the true telling there)

that video is useless, sorry, its just a guy playing with the lock. (sorry but its just a simple demo of the ratchet plates, that be it)
what maters is the large labor to installed it and put the gears back so they don't self destruct, and the new pinion preload spacer too. on front of pinion, behind yoke,.
page 4c or 4b covers this. clearly.
at the vary least you will lose all page 33, alignment.

http://www.acksfaq.com/HTML/trackerfsm.htm

start at 4B18
axles out, pig mounted in bench mount, page 18.

these pages are total rebuild. so many steps can be skipped. not by much.
but not all
preload on the pinion must be correct. (and offset on the pinion, a good shop at least checks it , after all, how know what the prev.owners did.
or did horror 1, seen in same book over-torqued the pinion nut, oops, that be bad. (like some guy trying to fix front seal leaks the wrong way)
some will just not check that. and start at page 31 there
and set the gear lash and mating patterns.
see preload and back lash adjustments, page 31
see page 33> if you dont get those patterns correct the axle has no chance of lasting.

best to do before, buying locker's is find a shop that can do all that. and not mess it up.
many shops can't. they lack axle men there. (some just lie , ah yah we can do it, tell me one happy customer, oops)
The cost of all that. is way more than the parts, well here it is..
long hours of pulling axles, and pigs, and done doing front and rear axles.
my guess 10 to 20 hours labor, depends on shop.

Ive seen folks buy the parts, and they sit parked after later finding out the full costs and huge work.
it not trivial, any of this.
not easy like new axle bearing.

but you can save cash by pulling your PIGS (carriers) and delivering them to a pro axle shop.

1/2 the cost id guess.

[SrgBog]

Hi everybody.
I found some info that explains about 1510LR, 1512LR and the 1532 LR

Check this:

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=131483.20

[fixkick]

do you drive on wet pavement , fast, and expect to make fast turns on wet pavement.
learn the down side here. lean it or get in trouble fast.
The best for the street is ,are, clutch pack type called LSD. they slip , and prevent skids like above....
The best set up is by command, lockup, turn it off , on the street and live.
there are many kinds, electric and vacuum are 2.

Hi everybody.
I found some info that explains about 1510LR, 1512LR and the 1532 LR

Check this:

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=131483.20

there pros-cons of axles , are vast.
depends one what you need, and where you drive.
it's and endless, topic, kinda like tires.

here is good post on other random , reviews.
Lock Right is a great invention. Simple yet very effective off road.
It eliminates the weak point of a differential off road; transmitting the torque to the wheel with the least traction and causing you to stall.

There are 2 forces that influence the Locker. One is delivered from the engine through the drive shaft, the other comes from the wheels due to different rotation speeds.
The first force causes the Locker to lock while the latter causes it to unlock.

Off road, where there is little traction, the force coming from the engine “prevails”, locks the Locker and ensures that torque is delivered to the wheel that is on the ground keeping you moving forward.

On tarmac the situation is different especially during turning. Here you need to be very careful with the accelerator. The wheels’ uneven rotation tell the Locker to unlock. However, if you press the accelerator, the drive shaft tells the Locker to lock and now you have a fight. This fight is translated into loud knocking sounds that are unpleasant at best but can also cause vigorous rocking of the car (especially in manual gear transmission).

By the way, normal behavior while turning is a clicking sound, which means the Locker unlocks. This is one sound that you need to get used to.

I did not drive yet on wet tarmac (pavement), but I imagine you need to be extra careful during turning since there is not enough road traction to unlock the Locker and you might have to deal with a spinning car.

Bottom line. If you can live with the disadvantages of the Locker in day to day driving in order to have better off road experience, install it.

[SrgBog]

Thank you Mr. fixkick for extra opinion !

[fixkick]

Thank you Mr. fixkick for extra opinion !

your welcome and remember you must be happy and safe.
there are lots of options, (maybe less on suzuki the underdog)
some guys weld the side/spider gears up, and only run off road.
all depend on your needs.
good luck and hope it all works out good.
cheers.!!