no injection ...ECU? 92 tracker 8v TBI

[fixkick]

answer to question 2 above. where is VCC, easy.

some of this is 6 years old and i forgot, that i already did that. for others
sleep , wake up, and bingo , its i my slide show, off ecu.htm.


http://www.fixkick.com/look/ECU-secrets/...ge_26.html

im made this for all those questions, do I really have power. did acid eat up a power trace, or a VIA killed my power path,,, so common those are...

no warranty on rev. engineering.. 5v main must be at 5v.

TTL chip 74hc152 pin 16 is power VCC, (datasheets are google easy today to pull up)





Junk ECUs , super dogs we called them.
1: acid damage inspection.
2: caps split or blown up, or leaking, or dry inside. (cap test)
3: 5vdc every where it must be. A23 first. watch out of zener and trace to it blown up, due to ,junk yard wild men, hot wiring the TPS or other 5vdc sensor.
4: Power up, CEL glows. (if not, does ECU have power on pin B1?)
5: Diag jumper , CEL must FLash something, if not its DOA.
6: code 12s, ?
7: code 12s, so i pull the ECT and the flashes. 14 DTC, for ECT voltage too high, if not the ECU is DOA. (my guess is backup mode due to power loss somewhere on the main board,) im sure IAT and TPS does simular DTC act. tells you they are missing. (try cranking to, get DTCs if none)
some odd ECU wont show codes until cranked. My 56B throws codes, just with power connected.(after boot up)

6: Noid test.
7: Run the engine tests.

As the FSM states, is to check all ECU connections for shorts. before installing a new ECU. for good reasons...
well, the inputs are safve, they can be shorted to any thing short of spark. All inputs are resistor and R/C input filtered and protected. (if case is grounded)

shorted outputs blow ECUs

all red arrows pointing out ward are outputs , those must not be shorted to power,
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/8v-tbi-schematic91to95.jpg
see this list of 15 drivers in list)
here
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/transistors.html
these are the drivers that blow up. from shorts.
keep in mind a relay can short its coil and blow up ( the ECU driver for said coil. case in point .eg. IC11, the fuel pump relay and pump are now dead for ever. (rare)
one other bad idea is the guy that hot wired the MAIN relay , slipped 1/8" inch, and blew the B15 diode to kingdomecome.. in Europe B15 is a transistor that turns on when IMMO is happy. very different from ours. ECU dead, no 12v to ECU again.
the chip that blows, there, kills that function.
Many ECUs' that are just laying around are bad. (even those are sold for core value for say $50).
Lots of persons here have installed fresh , injectors wires, or add a 7Amp fuse to the injector red wire. (hot side) & if paranoid, the yellow too. (no shorts on the yellow wire to 12v are allowed or BOOM , R227 smokes)
$400 for a new Cardon ECu can do that to you,, i wish you luck , and success....
Injectors, and all VSV drivers and relay driver pins.
these old ECU do not have output protection like on new cars. (some)

FYI

ps: when C111 goes bad. IC-7 regulator goes nuts. (if a noise pick (negative) goes below about 9v, the reg. drops out) i do not know the actual drop point but it doesn't matter, the cap needs to be good and in place. there.
the new caps on my cap pages shows good low ESR caps. that suck up lots of noise on the cars power distribution (torture system) bus.
One large noise source is the A/C clutch it can produce 100v spikes, when activated. (lots of photos) (back EMF) and its not diode clamped.
only the battery and alternator diodes dampen noise. (both can fail) if fact Alternators can fail and be mostly noise generators, (3phase diode short)
so C111 is a key part in this car.
think of it as protection for when other things , not related are bad. a vary common thing on old cars.'

[armchairlonghair]

TTL chip 74hc152 pin 16 is power VCC, (datasheets are google easy today to pull up)

didn't find it don't know what it is?

Did some more tests here



bench test with B1 B2 hooked up. same results before and after CAP replacement;
B1 12.38v
Ic7 2= 11.76v 3=12.36v 13=5v
Ic10 14=5 v
Ic1 43=5 v
Ic2 42= 5 v
C105 5 v
A23 5 v
Q100 b=11.76 v c=5 v e=12.34 v
B6 0 v
Q103 b=0 v c=0 v e=0 v
Q5 ?? small with 3 pins 2= 0v 1= 3.75 v
Q9pin 2 ?? 3 pins 0, .64v, .17v
Zeiner ?? D105? 11.76 & 0 v

Connectors
Green
B1 12.36v
B7 12.36v
B12 12.13 v

Yellow
A2 12.12 V
A4 11.97 V
A6 12.26 V
A7 111.79 V
A13 5 V
A14 5V
A15 4.77 V
A16 4.46 V
A17 4.71 V
A18 4.76 V
A18 4.76 V
A20 5 V
A22 4.81 V
A23 5 V

THE REST ARE 0 V

The CAP's had ruby disease for sure. goo from c111 lots and c103 less

Once removed I tested the copper circles at the solder points on both sides of the board. I assume these are the VIA's. All CAP locations had continuity from one side of board to the other. You could see the darkened circle from the CAP goo. I scratched it up with a pin to reveal copper.

Post CAP change I hooked up CEL from B13 to B2 and disgnostic ground A3 to B2. No flash nothing.total crap!

shorted outputs blow ECUs

I have not tried it in vehicle. Not expecting much.I think I need another ECU. I will test outputs before trying this brick o CRAP!

Thanks again

[fixkick]

i will review, every word above tonight. that ecu looks sick and sadly will not wake up..

back later...

[fixkick]

a7 im sure is DP shift.
i see no errors in your test or results.
keep in mind if a cap cracks and shoots acid across the board it can land anywhere, some leak and squirt.
the results of that can be unpredictable.

it should flash something and it must. or its out to lunch.

some ECUs on ebay are cheap, (not from ebay stores) but for sale by owners.
like $50 ive had great luck getting good ones. (flash 12s and runs, and sees dead open sensors)

new page just for you. (check it out)

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/noblow.html

[armchairlonghair]

flash 12s and runs, and sees dead open sensors

new page just for you. (check it out)

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/noblow.html

[/quote]

Hi ,sorry it took a while,
Thanks very much. I used your new page to test the vehicle. I had a bulb that came in at .97 so I used that.
B5=.31
B6=.59
B8=0
B13=.09
B14=.32
B16=.17
B17=0

A8=.33
A11= NA... no pin socket
A12=0
seems all good
So as discussed my ECU was bad (no codes,no injection). I purchased an ebay rebuild and it has fixed the problem.
Some interesting notes though. The ECU would not test on the bench it threw no codes. I question my wire set up (ecu grounds light for flashes?) but... In the car it also would not register the unhooked sensors right away. It flashes 12 but no codes until it is started or turned over. Once started it registered 14,31,23 they would not self clear when rehooked up. I had to pull power to clear them. Now it runs great with an occasional code 44 that self corrects to 12 fairly quickly.

So if you remember I started with the compression check to see if the timing had slipped. I got low #'s. I gave you 50 psi cold (really Canadian -10 CELSIUS cold) but the actual #'s are;
1=40psi
2=40psi
3=50psi
4=30psi much worse....indeed.

50 is bad, on all 4 cylinder? ?????????????? no other things need checking
no injection problem i real but 50 is catastrophic bad,
the worst compression is about 150. the EFI system can NOT operate with no injection, sure test fuel works, but the EFI CANT run with no air flow. it cant.
the ECU only can compensate for normal wear, and if you thought the rings were dry ( the were not) you could put 2 squirts of oil in the cylinder and if it went from 50 to 150 then the rings
are like paper thin, useless.... end of life on rings....
if it stayed at 50psi then the valves are gone...

my guess is that not done WOT, or gauge is bad. very bad.
if all 4 are 50? the gauge is bad..
your compression gauge was dropped, and is no good, im sure, im sure it 3x greater, and is wall of shock to any tech, seeing 3x lower than normal. its Horrid.

So the car is now warmed up and the values are good, not great. They are 3 x what they were after 2 weeks of no run in down to -20 C temp. So it may be that there was less oil on the cyl. All test were done at WOT all plugs removed. The guage reads 70 psi on two 2 stroke outboards and 100 on my aircooled volkswagen. It should be good. Here are the final warm (45 min after shut down) numbers;
1= 150 psi
2= 145 psi
3= 155 psi
4= 155 psi
interesting the lowest 4 is now in the highest group....

So I would like to thank you for every thing. Your site is an incredible resource. Having access to you through the forums is amazing. I have not only fixed the tracker I have learned, and learned a lot. For that, your comments, and everything else THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fixkick]

your welcome and i did make an error, i forget that my bench has CMP generator running full time,
you must be cranking or running to get codes (most) beyond code 12, on the bench.
im sorry i didnt say that.
this is why we crank for 5 seconds to get 41/42 DTC , other wise the ECU is just sleeping...

your compression is very good.
but no 12s on the bench is a bad ECU.
when cranked over the OBD1 catastrophic monitors wake up; with CMP action, i think, my bench CMP is a just Megasquirt STIM card or my Arduino generator, i use now.
all it takes is the CMP squire wave. to wake it up.

happy trails.