Loud clunk when shifting from P to R on A/T 4speed

[zukitrek]

As you know my tranny was recently rebuilt and she's is doing great so far. There was one thing I think I forgot to mention that was happening way before rebuild and it is a loud clunk whenever I put selector from P to R or D to R.

I consulted this to the technician and he mentioned me that there are 2 shift solenoids that if starting to fail, are responsible for that clunk. He also tells me that these cost new about $400. Not that he wanted to do this job or anything. He knw I was short funded, so maybe was the reason for not pushing it. Actually he had told me about that part when showing me the disassembled tranny.
Im sure I saw on your pages how to troubleshoot them. If they are in fact bad the only solution would be to replace them right?

http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/e...iew&id=207

I circled them in red in this schematic from your page.

Technician told me that if I wanted to replace them, that it is a job that I could do. Im sure.

As always thanks in advance.

Javier

[fixkick]

does it do that? with the transfer, case in neutral?????????
if no, then try a u-joints on rear propeller (drive) shaft are bad, (either) or the spin shaft on tail shaft. (or the tail shaft of the transfer case worn or the yoke that fits three is worn. or it ujoints. (why not put trans in park, one or 2 rear tires off ground, then grap the tail shaft by hand, and feel the play, rear to front.
skilled hands can tell normal play from abnormal.... and we cant do that in the message box..

if yes, might be tranny. and the solenoids, just come off. with pan off.

seen on my 4speed valve body page

http://www.fixkick.com/tranny/slush/slid...LE/vb1.jpg

[zukitrek]

Ok. will do that sir.

if yes, might be tranny. and the solenoids, just come off. with pan off.

But if solenoids are bad, those are really expensive? No fixing them? is just replacing them?

Thanks!!

[zukitrek]

many shops that only do transmissions, may assume you did all that. (what shop is this (type)?)
He used to work on a popular shop here in PR and now he is on his own, but has 30years experience working on A/T. That does not mean that he did all things correct and the way they are suposse to be done. I was not there so he could have skipped (or his employees) many procedures.
and blame the solenoids. (i think he is full of beans.... )
That can only found out when I ask him about all these other things to test.
but i can't drive car, hear that noise nor test for it using my stethoscope a real shop in town will do all that.
A full service shop. or a real transmission shop, like AAMCO here, in states.

why jump to conclusions and then ask for pricing?,,,, that is dead last.
He was not asking for pricing. He told me before overhauling tranny when it was disassembled about how expensive those solenoids are if, and only if, they needed replacement.
the 2 solenoids shift 1,2,3,4, (see my TCM page yet?
Many times, but I can take look again to verify.
the 3rd solenoid selects TCC lock. only,
there is no Rev. solenoid.
But there are electrical test for them that can let technician know if they are bad? Just like when we test sensors? Or that won't reveal squat?

no ,bad solenoids are not repairable. they are replaced. (not by you or a local shop)
THE KEY:
the key to finding this out , is WHERE IS THAT CLunk, the shifter moves the manual valve to R, the manual valve sends pressure to the reverse clutch.
and it engages, there are parts in the valve body (did he overhaul that,or skip all that) called accumulators.
if they are jammed up. the trans will go to REverse
in a brutal fashion, the manual valve selects reverse, not the solenoids.... so?
why are you blaming them (or him)
Him. But I surely will tell him about this other possibilities.
my guess, is he never touched the valve body, which is part of any overhaul.... (the solenoids are tested then , on the bench) electric and fluid checks. under pressure.
He told me he was going to do a full clean up of the valve body and I presume inspect but not sure about bench testing it. Doubt it.
(if he did overhaul the body, (seals new, and inspected and tested) he might of put some parts back upside down. causing accumulators buffer valves to fail. causing hard shifts.
Who knows, but this clunk when selecting R was happening before.
ever seen hot rodders , modify valve bodies to get brutal hard shafts for racing,? study that to see if this is happening.
what if 2 springs were swapped on accumulators.? (a pro shop, marks all part or bags them, for SURE parts that seem the same but are not.(springs)
Again I was not there, so like I said, not sure. I did it while doing my buggy rebuild.

i guess the overhaul was a partial?

---

a pro shop sells this for $1500 and is 100% tested before it ships
see that here. see that engine test stand, i guess your guy tests it , inside your car? at your expense? (wash ,wear , repeat$$$$$)
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/...sions.html

I will do my hands on testing. Ill report to you my findings and let him know about this other things that can be tested.

Thanks!!

[fixkick]

redux 1
P to R clunk! why
hot , cold or both engine (was hot rpm 800 and cold 1500 and if yes, which one makes a clunk both are is RPM out of spec (high RPM will cause jerk in P>R)!!!!
the solenoids DO NOT engages REVERSE , they only operator in DRIVE< 1,2,3,4 , if they stick open or closed then 1,2,3,4 fails. DOES DRIVE FAIL> (i bet not)
so end solenoid worry, and costs, and all that. (and the TCC solenoid ,)
but the VALVE body has a regulator and accumulators that prevent , radical engagement of the CLUTCH PACKS. they are engaged gently.

the first check is RPM you never said and RPM is horse power, and if you have too much going in to R, then it will be traumatic, (see Toyota's huge lawsuit on that?)
if the clunk happens at 800 RPM (did it)
then we check the drive shaft end to end for play. or missing or loose bolts and bad u-joints.
if all that is tight.
the the valve body has issues. end story, in that order.

---

no need to respond until the.
RPM is stated. (and hot cold engine or both.)
the P>R shift in transfer case neutral is done....
and hands on drive shaft for play is checked, and watching it, while turning the drive shaft by hand, and yanking it hard in all directions look for PLAY.
this is first never the transmission until last.

you cant hurt hit , yanking the drive shift, i even pry it with a 2 foot , 2x4" board. watching for lateral play in all parts in view.

[zukitrek]

Ok. You are right, does not happen when shifting to drive or neutral (if it applies). RPMS are now (after fiddling Bleed screw when trying to set duty) 1500 cold then after warm up, they drop to 800. Yes I have to correct that issue. Hopefully new DMM will arrive soon.

The clunk will happen in both (1500 or 800 rpm) but I don't shift until it warms an idle is at 800. But if I go from P to D, lets say from stop to move forward, it will not happen (or N) if doing so. Very radical from P or D to R only.

If it did it intermittently, lets say one day will do it next don't or same day does twice then don't?
These test would tell me why?

I forgot one last piece of info for you (also happening before overhaul) The shift from 1st to 2nd is kind of harsh. Not at all like the clunk or anything like it, but is not as smooth as the others say, 2-3 and 3-4.

Your are simply the best. Gracias!!!

Sunny day today for you there in TX? Here is gorgeous!!

[fixkick]

ok fails at 800. that means the engine HP is normal through the clutch, so we test at 800, 1500 is a whole other matter.... so we skip this, for now.

have you ever driven a new car ever? rented, or ?
i cant guess your frame of reference.... (experience)

he didnt overhaul the valve body, if true than the above information is useless. no shop skips this.


the transfer case test tell me it not a super bad transmission, like something loose.
but in gear, at 800 rpm there can be a small jerk but never a clunk.

I guess, you never had a car with a bad u-joint, nor ever inspected them?
that be first. no shop on earth ever condemns and transmission before checking for PLAY from the rear spline of the transfer case to the rear. including the spline to yoke play.
no shop would..
why not you do .?

[zukitrek]

Yes I will. But im at work. Still have not retired, not yet!! LOL. Okie sir will do so and report back to you.

I've rented my fair share of cars, but only for a couple of day so can't really tell, not much experience or driving time. I can tell you what feels wrong. New car for me? Never. My wife yes, 2 Sunbirds, 93. One got wrecked, total loss and then she got another from insurance money which we sold last year. Was going to be next in rebuild after my civic 87, but she wanted to sell it.

Gracias!!

[zukitrek]

Good day Fix. Already checked play and to my observations it looks normal when moving it: shaft and both u-joints. I did make a video where
you can see more or less whats going on. I did the speed shift lever thing (wife doing it, me under car) with engine off and on with engine warmed up. In the video with engine on you can hear the clunk (under the car sounds more like a boxing bell ring). While with engine off no sounds at all.

Ill send the video in a while.

Buen dia!!

[fixkick]

there are many causes for a clunk. (RPM engine normal)
1: play from the rear of transmission the rear axle. 2H mode.
that is a long way on all 4wd, can be in transmission main, transfer case, all those splines and axle gears. and even axle splines, long long path.
finding that out is not easy. (ask a shop that deals in this?)
what I do use use my stethoscope, and listen to the main box. if the noise is not there, then move to the transfer case, and if not there, the rear axle and if not there, its bad u-joints. ever seen them with dry bearings (inside) ????
yes, seen folks replace very expensive parts and then just a bad $15 Ujoint. why folks dont use the stethoscope first and use that logic to say, gee i cant find the noise, so must be joints.. (after all you cant clamp my stethoscope microphone to a spinning axle so,,, its last to diagnose but first to suspect.


2: the transmission when shifted to Reverse, this is a mechanical...
the A/T manual valve moves from P to R, and sends fluid pressure to the reverse clutch.
if the accumulator or regulator is bad, this pressure CAN BE extreme and will be loud.
that is why they test the transmission on a test stand (last step) to find all this out before installed in a car.

finding noises, cause, without tools and help and skills. is very very hard.

3: bad transmission mounts? or just loose? will make noise if loose or bad.

finding noises sources on any machine lacking tools to do just that, is hard to impossible.
your mech lacks these tools?