Fitted new engine with loom and ECU... cranks no start

[rcx348]

I have fitted an engine, wiring loom, and ECU from a 1997 Vitara (Sidekick) to replace the knackered engine in my 1995 Vitara. All the bits came from the same working car. Today I finished fitting the engine and tried to start it. It cranks but no start.

There's a spark at the plugs. A squirt of engine start fluid starts the car for a few seconds. I loosened the fuel hose to check there's fuel being delivered and there's pressure in the line.

The engine came from a working Vitara with 23'000 genuine miles on the clock and it was all working when I took it out of the donor car. I've connected the ignition lock and immobiliser from the donor car as well so that the immobiliser works. In theory the only thing that has changed as far as the engine is concerned is the chassis/body!

Not sure what to check next. I checked the fuses. The loom is in great and totally original condition, so is the engine. I double checked all the sensors are connected, MAF, EGR etc are all connected. The entire loom from front to rear was replaced.

Could the ECU not be liking something? The car still has the old fuel pump fitted. The car is presently stripped down so the clocks are not fitted, no coolant, no alternator fitted, no mirrors, no clocks. Maybe one of these is required for the ECU to work?

Also, I disconnected the Suzuki immobiliser, and there is still a spark at the plugs. What does the immobiliser actually immobilise?

[fixkick]

is this an OBD2 1997? no, is it G16a or B , 8v or 16v?
that be it, the ECU is upset. but with no scan tool, its hard to tell what.
if fuel pressure is a 30psi +
then the ECU is cutting fuel, ( a noid light test proves that, in a minute)

so what cuts fuel, (noid dead !)
1: ECu sees spark missing, even though its perfect (the spark-suppressor, module, missing or cut wires to it)
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/slides...-8v-1w.jpg
2: ECU sees wide open throttle signal from TPS, (a cut ground wire to the TPS is common reason.)
3: Immo failed to unlock fuel.

i think IMMO cuts fuel, we dont have them here,(this gen) but most the ones we do have, is cut fuel.
my jeep cuts fuel, then cuts spark. my jeep only allows, 3 second runs time with IMMO false.

ok, there are 2 lamps in the dash.
IMMO
CEL
the IMMO tells you its status , right, ? is it glowing or not?

the CEL , has flash codes, in 1995 but in 1996 , its OBD2, but i bet your not running USA spec car. and is in Europe. (?)
so that be and OBd1 too, car, so get the flash codes after cranking for 5 seconds,. (connect the DLC diagnostic jumper)
the flash codes, 41, or 42 will be the cause as will TPS codes.

what is clocks.????
the alt is not needed. (till battery goes dead but you know that part)

are you missing the 1997 cluster? is that what clocks means. Instrument cluster? just dawned on me, "pilot says to nav, clocks look good?"

this part can kill all starting
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/slides...-8v-1w.jpg

this is all pins it take to get it to run.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/only-for-spark.jpg



the immo when happy sends a serial command to the ECU, a secret pass word , if you will. and the ECU then allows starting.
what the ECU cuts, is really not important, only that it will not start.
many cars made only cut , fuel.
jeeps are very tricky in this regard. it can cut running 8 ways. but not suzuki.
a full list?

1 : immo (upset)
2: suppressor missing. killing the tachometer line brown wire.
3: TPS signaling WOT full time.
4: CMP dead, no, that kills spark and dead spark then kills fuel. (ecu logic)
5: CKP , you don't have one, but will not stop spark or fuel , here.

assumes injectors have DC power and noid dead. and all fused good.


the I/P cluster has the VSS sensor,, and must work or engine runs like crap. (limphome) but will start run and inject if missing in the cluster. or wired wrong
on 4sp,. A/t there are 2 VSS and both must work prefect, but neither can cut fuel.

most sensors unplugged, cause limphome mode (suz, fail safe) and runs rich.
but not CMP, when that dies, all spark ends.

---

one more, post
the suppressor on my 16v car. (is yours, 16v?
is here
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/slides...ge_28.html

if you unplug it, the tacho meter dies
and the ecu thinks (wrongly) that spark died, and cuts fuel full time.

this is a top reason for many swaps to fail. very very common. to forget this little critter.

---

the 8v is closer to the left strut.

[rcx348]

Hi Fixkick, I was hoping you would answer!

The car is a 16V, UK model. I thought all 16V were G16B! I will check the engine number tomorrow, it's late here now.

There is no IMMO light on any Vitara in the UK that I've seen. The clocks (instrument cluster) are at the warehouse at work (long term storage). I'll drive in especially tomorrow and get them so that I can read off ECU error codes.

I don't think it has OBD2. I had the same model/year car before and I used a jumper and had to read the code of the CEL, so that makes it OBD1 I think?

For the Noid test I need to buy/rent/borrow tools. I'll try to do that tomorrow.

So, tomorrow I will:

Check engine code to see if G16A or G16B (it's G16B I think)
Get tools to do Noid test and test fuel line pressure.
Get instrument panel to check error codes
I'll try the spare key
I'll check TPS ground

The suppressor is there like in your photo... it was taped to the wiring loom when it was removed from the donor car and was never removed.

Should I earth the ECU and immobiliser?

There's a two pin connector on the ignition lock with only one wire present and I can't see where that plugs in. The connector which goes to the antenna to read the key is connected and main connector for ignition is connected. I'll take a photo tomorrow.

I have another 1997 Vitara out back with a bent chassis! It hasn't run for two years. I can see if it starts and I can try to swap parts as last resort.

[fixkick]

yes, late there, +6 hours from here , central time.
yes, 16v is B.
yes, obd1 there. only here obd2 , in 97

im no expert on immo, never touched one ,but have read some pages on yours.


yes ,the earthing of case, actives all the input filters on both.
btw, your close to getting it going.
just some simple thing, im sure.

but the ECU is IMMO version, so must get that happy command from IMMO box.
ok here it is:-
The check engine light is flashing FAST which denotes an immobiliser fault.
if you use the diagnostic jumper it will show 8x codes, for serial port or for immo fails.
it be smart to have earth ground so the comm onlines dont pickup noise.

No CEL lamp present is a hard row to hoe , no joy, it seems....
i have no manual on the IMMO.

[rcx348]

I've fitted the instrument panel and the CEL light comes on straight away. Interestingly it stays on after I remove the key. It gives error code 83 which Google says is "data serial link" "ECU/Immobiliser".

The immobiliser, ignition lock, microchipped key, loom, and ECU all came from a single donor car which was running great and I personally broke up, so the immobiliser should be happy right? I will check all the connections. Been a bit distracted today helping fix my brothers MX5 but hopefully now he'll let me get on with my own car.

[rcx348]

I earthed the ECU and immobiliser to be sure.
I disconnected the immobiliser and I still get the same error code 83.
When I crank the engine the only error code present is 83. No other error codes appear.

I've been given the factory manual for the immobiliser and it has some checks to do to check the "data link". I'll do them now.

PS. when I was welding on the car recently I disconnected the ECU but not the immobiliser. I may have blown it :/

[rcx348]

Found the fault! God what a mistake! The immobiliser was plugged into the central locking plug! Can't believe it! I'd labelled each plug but these two I left thinking they are too obvious to bother labelling!

Fixkick, thank you! Your website has taught me a ton over the years! Where's the Paypal donation button?

[fixkick]

cool , you found it,,, getting and old IMMO happen is not easy, you did real good.
all is free.
i help anyone who needs help.

"Interestingly it stays on after I remove the key. "
my gosh that is odd, huh?
thanks for telling the story and sharing !

[cosmic_splatter]

I second that request for a paypal donation button. You've helped me tremendously as well!

John

[zukitrek]

I second the idea of the Paypal button, your help is invaluable!!