Engine finally runs OK, but no real power!

[Zackman]

Dear Fixkick
In continuation of replacing my son’s Sidekick’s engine, as per your suggestion in my last thread, I checked the TDC at cylinder 1, at the firing cycle, with the valve lash loose, and that was correct. If you recall, you told me the backfiring I was getting would have been due to the TDC not necessarily having been at cylinder 1 being at its firing cycle, when dizzy’s dial was at 11 PM.
However, what had happened, one of the nuts on one of the valves had come loose! After fixing that and checking all valve lashes, and ensuring that the distributor’s dial is at 11 PM at the TDC at cylinder 1 at firing order (I also used the tool that you have a picture of in one of your pages for establishing a cylinder’s maximum travel to its top; TDC), I started the car. In the beginning there were lots of huffs and puffs (I am not sure whether it is dues to the gas in the car being 8 months old?!) However, after warming up, the number of backfiring sounds diminished to almost zero. However, in comparison to past, the engine vibrates a lot in my opinion. I captured a video of it running; But the site does not allow me to load the file due to its size. I can mount it on my Drobox and send you an email to permit you seeing it; however, for that I need your email! Is there any other way I can sen you the file? Its size is 191 Mb.
When the car is accelerated in PARK, the RPM goes up and everything sounds reasonably OK; however, as soon as it goes to any gear, it shuts off, unless a bit of acceleration is applied. Even then, there is not power, when it is in drive, and it barely reaches 15 MPH, despite the compression test revealed that I have a minimum of 155 psi in each cylinder.
I checked the timing with the strobe light, and it is set at 8 deg. BTDC. I am really baffled as what is the cause of this problem now? I would appreciate receiving your views on this issue.
BTW, I checked engine’s code, and registers 12. I also have Rhino’s cable and software. No particular issue can be seen through that software (although, to be honest, I do not understand the values from most sensors’ reported by the software.
Cheers,
Zackman

[fixkick]

hello again and welcome
great work there and that infinite valve lash,, must have been some racket.
seems engine, is ok, good compression and lash,, last too tight can cause compression loss hot.
yes, youtube can hold videos, with magic $10billion server farms, distributed world wide. but sadly, we don't have pace for videos. (huge files)
we are dinky Doo, space.
most my photos are like 150kB. sized... tiny
stATAUS.
runs (BUT A DOG)
engine now good. compression at spec.
flashes 12s, (no sensor fell off. TBI
is engine misfiring at idle?, and engine shaking?
fast right foot, trick saves! stall super easy??, that is lack of air. or tad hard,fights you, this. in park.
what is cold start rpm?
and hot started. after dash pot delays,?
map hose not cracked, not clogged.
ect READ 300 ohms unplugged, fully hot engine, if not then thermostat bad. 180-195 degree stats only worl
ISC valve stuck closed, is my guess now.
idle switch stuck open (TPS not calibrated,) kills ISC dead. 0vdc on switch is correct after dash pot does it delay thing'y
leaking injector or its 2 x 0-rings.
air leaks or vacuum leaks never cause low engine power, in fact opposite, races with full power with leaks.
some other input to ecu bad.
no cracks in exhaust manifold, From bottom of manifold to the CAT brick inside, zero cracks allowed.

good the rhino tool , i have the page that answers this
ECT 180F:?
in closed loop, at hot idle
LTFT i where. centered hot idle 118?
injector pw. hot, at idle, in park.?
idle switch on?
SEE Those other switches, off is correct.
rich lean status?
MAP, 8v, is in Kpa pressure (vacuum) hot idle. park.


seen this page yet this is magic page, a mix of 8v and 16v data, OBD1, all live data. scanned live. from the real FSM book
unlike oBD2, many parameters oddly shown, like LTFT . long term fuel trim
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/Tech1/tech1_output.html

Dear Fixkick
In continuation of replacing my son’s Sidekick’s engine, as per your suggestion in my last thread, I checked the TDC at cylinder 1, at the firing cycle, with the valve lash loose, and that was correct. If you recall, you told me the backfiring I was getting would have been due to the TDC not necessarily having been at cylinder 1 being at its firing cycle, when dizzy’s dial was at 11 PM.
However, what had happened, one of the nuts on one of the valves had come loose! After fixing that and checking all valve lashes, and ensuring that the distributor’s dial is at 11 PM at the TDC at cylinder 1 at firing order (I also used the tool that you have a picture of in one of your pages for establishing a cylinder’s maximum travel to its top; TDC), I started the car. In the beginning there were lots of huffs and puffs (I am not sure whether it is dues to the gas in the car being 8 months old?!) However, after warming up, the number of backfiring sounds diminished to almost zero. However, in comparison to past, the engine vibrates a lot in my opinion. I captured a video of it running; But the site does not allow me to load the file due to its size. I can mount it on my Drobox and send you an email to permit you seeing it; however, for that I need your email! Is there any other way I can sen you the file? Its size is 191 Mb.
When the car is accelerated in PARK, the RPM goes up and everything sounds reasonably OK; however, as soon as it goes to any gear, it shuts off, unless a bit of acceleration is applied. Even then, there is not power, when it is in drive, and it barely reaches 15 MPH, despite the compression test revealed that I have a minimum of 155 psi in each cylinder.
I checked the timing with the strobe light, and it is set at 8 deg. BTDC. I am really baffled as what is the cause of this problem now? I would appreciate receiving your views on this issue.
BTW, I checked engine’s code, and registers 12. I also have Rhino’s cable and software. No particular issue can be seen through that software (although, to be honest, I do not understand the values from most sensors’ reported by the software.
Cheers,
Zackman

[Zackman]

As per usual, thank you FIXKIXK for your speedy reply.
Apparently there are several things I should be looking into. However, I have a few questions in regard to your reply.
1. You mentioned: good the rhino tool , i have the page that answers this
I did a search in your website, but could not find any info. In other words, do you have the average values of the values that are supported by the Rhno's software?

2. You mentioned "LTFT i where. centered hot idle 118?"
Could you please explain what you mean? what is "LTFT i where."?

3. You mentioned "in closed loop, at hot idle"
How do I determine this?

4. You mentioned: "idle switch on?"
How do I determine this

Thanks very much!
Zackman

[fixkick]

NO PROBLEMO. BROAD CAST FOR SOUTH AMERICA.... HOT DAY 90F,,, coming home at last...long vacation

As per usual, thank you FIXKIXK for your speedy reply. (YOU JUST CAUGHT ME,) I,D

Apparently there are several things I should be looking into. However, I have a few questions in regard to your reply.
1. You mentioned: good the rhino tool , i have the page that answers this
I did a search in your website, but could not find any info. In other words, do you have the average values of the values that are supported by the Rhno's software?

2. You mentioned "LTFT i where. centered hot idle 118?"
Could you please explain what you mean? what is "LTFT i where."?
this is long term fuel time, if 02 sensors sees engine rich all time it move this trim. so if trim looks way bad, means, 02 bad, exhaust leak, or say fuel pressure way too high like 60 psi
so forgot to say, most these care are failing for bad FPR, REG. A RASH OF THEM NOW.
STFT is way to fast for humans to see, so I ignore it."short term"

3. You mentioned "in closed loop, at hot idle"
How do I determine this? (this in software is a status bit, or flag, for closed loop status) on new cars, at idle it must be true.
When the ecu can control air fuel ratio at Stoich/lambda or 14.7:1 ratio and can hunt it and hold it in closed, loop then closed loop status goes true.
id be yours is out of control lean or rich, not sure. if bogs, lean,if misfires and plugs black rich. it is.

4. You mentioned: "idle switch on?"
How do I determine this.
see my TPS page. but the scan tool you have should show this, says ON
us poor folk have to measure the idles switch pin on TPS to see if its 0v.


Thanks very much!
Zackman

ask more... willing to help

check fuel pressure
check FPR vacuum nipple for fuel leaks, if leaks,its GONE ,DOA.

[Zackman]

Thank you! I will keep you posted.
Cheers,
Zackman

[Zackman]

Good morning FIXKICK!
Dear Fixkick:
I hope you remember my weekly report on the saga of replacing my car’s engine! As you may remember, I ensured everything on the timing is OK (with strobe light, and ensuring the cylinder #1 at firing cycle, and the distributor at 11 PM position, etc).

PROBLEM: Car starts perfectly, cold idles at 900 RPM, and the cold idle vacuum assisted plunger retracts immediately after starting, but as soon as I put the car in gear, it shots off. Moreover, at idle, when I press the pedal to the metal, it immediately goes to 2000 RM, but the motor takes its time for a few seconds (upward to 5-8 secs) for the RPM to gradually go to 3000 , another few seconds to gradually reach to 3500, and finally near 4000 RPM, where it essentially plateaus!

I did the following on the car yesterday:
1. Drained the fuel tank, and replaced the fuel filter, thinking that may be the seven-month old fuel would be the culprit.
2. Checked the resistance of almost all sensors, including the spark plug wires; all within the specs.
3. Took off the EGR valve (which was incidentally replaced with a new one less than 500 miles ago), and checked it. One of the two holes on the engine where the EGR meets (the one on the right-hand-side, looking at the EGR valve from the passenger-side) had some soot (I would say 70 of the area was unobstructed), all cleaned.
4. Checked the MAP; seems functioning OK. When I pull the hose, the RPM goes down significantly.

Unfortunately, the tablet that ran my RHINO-VIEW mal-functioned (yes, my luck is really amazing these datys!). I could not use the software to check the car, despite the fact I installed it on three other PCs! It, unfortunately, could not communicate with the CPU. That is another issue I have to deal with now!

Well, with the new information, is there anything that comes to your mind that may resolve the issue?
Cheers,
Zackman

[fixkick]

welcome back.! 8v engine.

Good morning FIXKICK!
Dear Fixkick:
I hope you remember my weekly report on the saga of replacing my car’s engine! As you may remember, I ensured everything on the timing is OK (with strobe light, and ensuring the cylinder #1 at firing cycle, and the distributor at 11 PM position, etc).

PROBLEM: Car starts perfectly, cold idles at 900 RPM, and the cold idle vacuum assisted plunger retracts immediately after starting, but as soon as I put the car in gear, it shuts off.
Moreover, at idle, when I press the pedal to the metal, it immediately goes to 2000 RM, but the motor takes its time for a few seconds (upward to 5-8 secs) for the RPM to gradually go to 3000 , another few seconds to gradually reach to 3500, and finally near 4000 RPM, where it essentially plateaus!
is map sensor connected? wires and vacuum is vacuum reaching it? is the map crushed during engine pull as many are.?



I did the following on the car yesterday:
1. Drained the fuel tank, and replaced the fuel filter, thinking that may be the seven-month old fuel would be the culprit.
2. Checked the resistance of almost all sensors, including the spark plug wires; all within the specs.
3. Took off the EGR valve (which was incidentally replaced with a new one less than 500 miles ago), and checked it.
One of the two holes on the engine where the EGR meets (the one on the right-hand-side, looking at the EGR valve from the passenger-side) had some soot (I would say 70 of the area was unobstructed), all cleaned.
4. Checked the MAP; seems functioning OK. When I pull the hose, the RPM goes down significantly.

Unfortunately, the tablet that ran my RHINO-VIEW mal-functioned (yes, my luck is really amazing these days!).

I could not use the software to check the car, despite the fact I installed it on three other PCs! It, unfortunately, could not communicate with the CPU. That is another issue I have to deal with now! NOT good that.

Well, with the new information, is there anything that comes to your mind that may resolve the issue?
Cheers,
Zackman

first off , i check compression on all old engines, and for sure rebuilt, i never assume engines are good, ever. unless it has full power,. 150psi minimum at sea-level to 1000 feet.
is vacuum steady at idle.? not bouncing? 20" HG is normal. mine id 19"
does CEL glow key on, if not big trouble... then goes out running.
does CEL flash 12 running. (on demand (jumper dlc in place>?)
ECU is bad if 12 are dead (blank), or acting odd, in any strange way, but if say other codes flash then we work those.
injector might be clogged. from bad fuel, it has 10micron screens. removed the screens are in plain site.

does engine get to 180F or more temp hot?
are spark plug tips white or cream or black.
melted cat? the vacuum gauge will act real odd, with throttle gunned.. lags and weak. type cat tests on my page. fixkick.com
is fuel pressure at spec.? not 55psi. not 20;.
but 34-41psi? the higher the altitude the less pressure by action of the FPR. make sure FPR vacuum nipple does not leak fuel.. or its bad for sure.
ECT 300 ohms hot.

it;s not vacuum leaks, they cause full power and high rpm. on TBI.
to be truth full, i check engine first. compression
and be sure cat is not melted.
old suzuki love to go to limphome and melt the cat , at the drop of a hat.




cheers.

[Zackman]

Thank you kindly for your reply FIXKICK.

1. As I had reported earlier (I know you are not expected to remember everything I have written in past 4 weeks), the engine compression are uniform and, as far as I am concerned, excellent. They are all at 155 psi at cold wide-open cranking.
2. The engine light goes off after a few second upon ignition, and I get code 12 - no problem at all.
3. The spark plugs are black and dry.
4. The fuel pressure should be tested.

QUESTIONS:
1. How do I check the vacuum (at what location/what hose)?
2. Why is it that as soon as I put it in gear it dies; even if the cylinder compression was the issue (which is definitely not in my case)?

Thanks again!
Zackman.

---

Another point I should mention. I have noticed that the plunger retracts immediately when the car is cold and started. In past, it used to stay on for a few second, then retract and let the RPM go down. Would that serve as a hint?!

Zackman

[fixkick]

Thank you kindly for your reply FIXKICK. U R WELCOME.

1. As I had reported earlier (I know you are not expected to remember everything I have written in past 4 weeks), the engine compression are uniform and, as far as I am concerned, excellent. They are all at 155 psi at cold wide-open cranking. good.,
2. The engine light goes off after a few second upon ignition, and I get code 12 - no problem at all. (ok no sensors fell off.)
3. The spark plugs are black and dry. (ok running rich, it is)
4. The fuel pressure should be tested. (you should, 55psi will never ever work. and is shunt spec. on pump, FPR dead or return line pinched)

QUESTIONS:
1. How do I check the vacuum (at what location/what hose)? any plenum hose ,even the map hose with added Tee fitting, any plenum hose works. they all go same place, (not FPR)
all vsv valve are on hard vacuum cept, EGR, and FPR. egr is ported vacuum and FPR is air horn (atmospherics for altitude.)
brake booster is hard vacuum but is pain to connect there. MAP is bests, as it tests that line is not clogged or cracked, too.

2. Why is it that as soon as I put it in gear it dies; even if the cylinder compression was the issue (which is definitely not in my case)?
it dies for 1 reason, gross misfiring, its running super rich and is misfiring so bad, the eCU can not raise RPM enough to hold up the transmission load,
i bet you cant drive it, with fast right foot on throttle, you select drive and with fast right foot cant raise RPM to drive. right and engine shakes hard and is misfiring badly.
right?

keep in mind, there are 2 power loss things.
misfire (rich)
and bog (or called lean misfire)


Thanks again!
Zackman.

---

Another point I should mention. I have noticed that the plunger retracts immediately when the car is cold and started. In past, it used to stay on for a few second, then retract and let the RPM go down. Would that serve as a hint?! no, the Dash pot is 100% timed by start up temps. 3 to 30 seconds, colder slower.

Zackman

ideas
test with O2 sensor unplugged.
fuel pressure way off
if engine is fully hot and ECT not 300 ohms, but is 1000 , it will run rich as heck. and misfire badly.
get engine hot, stop it, off the ect connector, bingo, 300 ohms at pins (the ecu can not find sensors out of calibration, ever)
ecu can not tolerate fuel pressure way off. it assumes its ok, and uses this in its equations, blindly.....
the iat uses same rules as ECT per my tables..... under testing the sensors.


well its misfiring rich,
right?
you can hear it misfire, and see it , shake and smell that rich unburned fuel.????


cheers

[Zackman]

Thank you so much for your time and detailed explanations.
YES! I agree that it is running rich; and occasionally (and I mean OCCASIONALLY) misfiring.
I will do the tests and will let you know of the result.
Unfortunately, we got a massive dump of snow last night, so everywhere is closed today! I will do the tests as soon as possible.

God bless you!
Zackman