Catalytic Converter, O2 Sensor & EGR Questions

[Von]

SOME of those headers made by Doug thorley are not made now (too few cars on road running I guess)
do you have this slot?


this header  has the magic hidden EGR slot..(and matching new gasket for that , calif CARB certified,  DO YOU have the slot; SOME DO NOT.

THY-716Y-C (or  THY-716Y-SS)   the SS I think is still made, for sure sold.







as you can see this 16v engine had 2 kinds of header,short and long, (calf, and fed)
long tube headers started in CALIF 1992 and later all cards when long.
ending this mess (fails hard) (had after burner plates inside the melt and block exh, flow, yah super bad.. long header is best, and not use  below #1 part

next up CALImini. 

long ago  they made these too  and are very good.

look for the tube   #4 port, seen at rear, here os CALMINI header is EGR fitted. SK703Y-S

My header does have that slot. Also to bring you up to speed where I am at with it now, I got the new cat. It is not melted and is installed properly now. PO removed. Prior to that I checked main cog for damage, replaced the pugs gapped .28 and wires installed properly, I replaced the timing belt but did not move the main and cam crank independently, I set valve lash to .06 but they were only off at .05 and or 0.07 so not much adjustment. The vehicle ran before but will Crank and not start now.

Assuming that all my work is correct could the new cat be the reason for it not starting. Before you answer a little back story. After vehicle would not start I started looking around the engine bay. I found the EGR disconnected from the block with all wires and hoses still connected. It seems that the PO removed the Cat and the EGR. Could the EGR being removed be the reason with the new cat that the vehicle won’t start?

THE EGR REMOVED LEAVES A HUGE HOLE IN THE INTAKE, VERY BAD THAT.
.05" is match book cover thick dont you mean .005" THICK?  or are those metric number?
IS Compression good
spark timing good
does test fuel work (sprayed by hand)'

Yes I meant .005-.007 compression is good and timing good prior. Before there was no cat and EGR was not connected now there is new cat and EGR not connected. Could EGR be the reason why now with the new cat that it is not starting?

[fixkick]

SOME of those headers made by Doug thorley are not made now (too few cars on road running I guess)
do you have this slot?


this header  has the magic hidden EGR slot..(and matching new gasket for that , calif CARB certified,  DO YOU have the slot; SOME DO NOT.

THY-716Y-C (or  THY-716Y-SS)   the SS I think is still made, for sure sold.







as you can see this 16v engine had 2 kinds of header,short and long, (calf, and fed)
long tube headers started in CALIF 1992 and later all cards when long.
ending this mess (fails hard) (had after burner plates inside the melt and block exh, flow, yah super bad.. long header is best, and not use  below #1 part

next up CALImini. 

long ago  they made these too  and are very good.

look for the tube   #4 port, seen at rear, here os CALMINI header is EGR fitted. SK703Y-S

My header does have that slot. Also to bring you up to speed where I am at with it now, I got the new cat. It is not melted and is installed properly now. PO removed. Prior to that I checked main cog for damage, replaced the pugs gapped .28 and wires installed properly, I replaced the timing belt but did not move the main and cam crank independently, I set valve lash to .06 but they were only off at .05 and or 0.07 so not much adjustment. The vehicle ran before but will Crank and not start now.

Assuming that all my work is correct could the new cat be the reason for it not starting. Before you answer a little back story. After vehicle would not start I started looking around the engine bay. I found the EGR disconnected from the block with all wires and hoses still connected. It seems that the PO removed the Cat and the EGR. Could the EGR being removed be the reason with the new cat that the vehicle won’t start?

THE EGR REMOVED LEAVES A HUGE HOLE IN THE INTAKE, VERY BAD THAT.
.05" is match book cover thick dont you mean .005" THICK?  or are those metric number?
IS Compression good
spark timing good
does test fuel work (sprayed by hand)'

Yes I meant .005-.007 compression is good and timing good prior. Before there was no cat and EGR was not connected now there is new cat and EGR not connected. Could EGR be the reason why now with the new cat that it is not starting?

what does not connected mean?
there are 3 things (up to)
mounted EGR main, to rear or intake runner #4  (now it cant leak mounted)
one vacuum hose.
and one bark tube to the modulator valve
95 and older has 4th  things the EGRT thermal sensor.


if you have good and fully closed EGR min and leave the vacuum tube not connected but use golf TEE  to plug the vacuum sucking hose,
the EGR is now off line, and out of the pictures
so if spark timing is correct , test fuel will fork,  proving it runs for 3 seconds each spray session. (can of instant start in a can sprayed.)

[Von]

SOME of those headers made by Doug thorley are not made now (too few cars on road running I guess)
do you have this slot?


this header  has the magic hidden EGR slot..(and matching new gasket for that , calif CARB certified,  DO YOU have the slot; SOME DO NOT.

THY-716Y-C (or  THY-716Y-SS)   the SS I think is still made, for sure sold.







as you can see this 16v engine had 2 kinds of header,short and long, (calf, and fed)
long tube headers started in CALIF 1992 and later all cards when long.
ending this mess (fails hard) (had after burner plates inside the melt and block exh, flow, yah super bad.. long header is best, and not use  below #1 part

next up CALImini. 

long ago  they made these too  and are very good.

look for the tube   #4 port, seen at rear, here os CALMINI header is EGR fitted. SK703Y-S

My header does have that slot. Also to bring you up to speed where I am at with it now, I got the new cat. It is not melted and is installed properly now. PO removed. Prior to that I checked main cog for damage, replaced the pugs gapped .28 and wires installed properly, I replaced the timing belt but did not move the main and cam crank independently, I set valve lash to .06 but they were only off at .05 and or 0.07 so not much adjustment. The vehicle ran before but will Crank and not start now.

Assuming that all my work is correct could the new cat be the reason for it not starting. Before you answer a little back story. After vehicle would not start I started looking around the engine bay. I found the EGR disconnected from the block with all wires and hoses still connected. It seems that the PO removed the Cat and the EGR. Could the EGR being removed be the reason with the new cat that the vehicle won’t start?

THE EGR REMOVED LEAVES A HUGE HOLE IN THE INTAKE, VERY BAD THAT.
.05" is match book cover thick dont you mean .005" THICK?  or are those metric number?
IS Compression good
spark timing good
does test fuel work (sprayed by hand)'

Yes I meant .005-.007 compression is good and timing good prior. Before there was no cat and EGR was not connected now there is new cat and EGR not connected. Could EGR be the reason why now with the new cat that it is not starting?

what does not connected mean?
there are 3 things (up to)
mounted EGR main, to rear or intake runner #4  (now it cant leak mounted)
one vacuum hose.
and one bark tube to the modulator valve
95 and older has 4th  things the EGRT thermal sensor.


if you have good and fully closed EGR min and leave the vacuum tube not connected but use golf TEE  to plug the vacuum sucking hose,
the EGR is now off line, and out of the pictures
so if spark timing is correct , test fuel will fork,  proving it runs for 3 seconds each spray session. (can of instant start in a can sprayed.)

Not connected as in the vacuum lines and wire was connected but the EGR was not bolted to the engine.

[fixkick]

My header does have that slot. Also to bring you up to speed where I am at with it now, I got the new cat. It is not melted and is installed properly now. PO removed. Prior to that I checked main cog for damage, replaced the pugs gapped .28 and wires installed properly, I replaced the timing belt but did not move the main and cam crank independently, I set valve lash to .06 but they were only off at .05 and or 0.07 so not much adjustment. The vehicle ran before but will Crank and not start now.

Assuming that all my work is correct could the new cat be the reason for it not starting. Before you answer a little back story. After vehicle would not start I started looking around the engine bay. I found the EGR disconnected from the block with all wires and hoses still connected. It seems that the PO removed the Cat and the EGR. Could the EGR being removed be the reason with the new cat that the vehicle won’t start?

THE EGR REMOVED LEAVES A HUGE HOLE IN THE INTAKE, VERY BAD THAT.
.05" is match book cover thick dont you mean .005" THICK?  or are those metric number?
IS Compression good
spark timing good
does test fuel work (sprayed by hand)'

Yes I meant .005-.007 compression is good and timing good prior. Before there was no cat and EGR was not connected now there is new cat and EGR not connected. Could EGR be the reason why now with the new cat that it is not starting?

what does not connected mean?
there are 3 things (up to)
mounted EGR main, to rear or intake runner #4  (now it cant leak mounted)
one vacuum hose.
and one bark tube to the modulator valve
95 and older has 4th  things the EGRT thermal sensor.


if you have good and fully closed EGR min and leave the vacuum tube not connected but use golf TEE  to plug the vacuum sucking hose,
the EGR is now off line, and out of the pictures
so if spark timing is correct , test fuel will fork,  proving it runs for 3 seconds each spray session. (can of instant start in a can sprayed.)

Not connected as in the vacuum lines and wire was connected but the EGR was not bolted to the engine.

test fuel test,  pass/fail
if compression is ok , engine will run on test fuel, if spark is good.  any gas/petrol engine. (car/truck,lawn mower, outboard motor, motor cycle, and more)  

watch scotty. (he used the IAT sensor hole. )

https://youtu.be/064Ilsz8Fzg?t=31


vw  (no gas tank at all , it runs) like this,  )  V-DUB.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl...Pm8#t=141s



https://fixkick.com/sensors/tests/runs-o...-only.html


conditions,

1. CAT NOT MELTED, Yours is not.
   
2. engine compression ok,  180PSI par on 16v
   
3. spark good,
   
4. spark timed.  1,3,4,2 (not wired backward using 8v way) firing at near TDC. 5degrees, BTDC.
   
5. runs on test fuel
   

only exception, flooded engine , spark plugs are new , gapped, 0.028' but when flooded can short,  but easy to dry out,  crank engine at WOT, WOT CUTS FUEL and it dries out.

[fixkick]

94 Suzuki Sidekick JLX 4x4 with a 1.6L 16v engine.
that new Exhaust manifold.  has no EGR tube, and is the old old NON USA/CALIF non EPA/CARB version,  so.......
REDUX,  back to post #1
94 Suzuki Sidekick JLX 4x4 with a 1.6L 16v engine.
I guess you never seen the car run before,  not mentioned in post #1, if it did not say so and we time the engine right,  as your PO my have all this wrong ,  as many do.
so just  defeat the EGR,
make sure it is closed in side  and no leaking, and mount it, (for prosperity) and just  remove the vacuum line and GOLF TEE the end so the hose can NOT SUCK AIR.
if the EGR is not stuck open it can not cause failure to start. can not.  (it has its own spring inside, that keeps it closed forever, if you defeat the vacuum line that is. per above.
then do the test fuel tests.
when you work on the cam belt.
did you use the right markings if not compression fails and spark timing will be all wrong,
do NOT USE "I" marks, for key or timing mark see below.  the bottom crank mark is at 12PM. cog and top on oil pump marked)







if this is done right  the spark is next.
error #1 by many PO/'s  is using 8v  wiring order for 16v engine, and will NEVER run again.







Timing a Distrib is just like some old 1960s Chevy V8.
the disrib is gear driving 13 teeth (IIRC)


the timing steps are here (full)

https://fixkick.com/16v-ignition-timing



the simpler way

1. crank pulley at 0 degree mark TDC #1 firing,  the both #1 valves are loss if not #4 is firing, if yes, turn crank crank one full turn and now #1 valves are lose.
   
2. off the distrib cap, see rotor ., at 1PM if not it was timed wrong, I mark the distrib base rim with ink to make #1 spot on the rim of distrib.
   
3. remove distrib body and drop it back down up to 3 times,(guess) until rotor lands on paint mark above. bingo timed correctly (later we use  timing light)
   
4. tighten the side clamp on distrib base.
   

seen these cars with C4 china junk parts rotor that fits on 3 ways, DOOMED that, buy real parts,  this is my first look thing, the bottom of the rotor (REAL) has spring clip
that blocks all ways of doing it wrong 2 wrong 1 right.  this is good rotor.  



compression spec, on this engine is  
The 16v is 195 PSI. Seen in  FSM chapter 6-6 (not 6A1)    (never 100 , never 50) if all are low the cam belt is wrong.

warm engine at sea level.  and throttle must be blocked open some or more, air starvation makes readings wrong.

[Von]

94 Suzuki Sidekick JLX 4x4 with a 1.6L 16v engine.
that new Exhaust manifold.  has no EGR tube, and is the old old NON USA/CALIF non EPA/CARB version,  so.......
REDUX,  back to post #1
94 Suzuki Sidekick JLX 4x4 with a 1.6L 16v engine.
I guess you never seen the car run before,  not mentioned in post #1, if it did not say so and we time the engine right,  as your PO my have all this wrong ,  as many do.
so just  defeat the EGR,
make sure it is closed in side  and no leaking, and mount it, (for prosperity) and just  remove the vacuum line and GOLF TEE the end so the hose can NOT SUCK AIR.
if the EGR is not stuck open it can not cause failure to start. can not.  (it has its own spring inside, that keeps it closed forever, if you defeat the vacuum line that is. per above.
then do the test fuel tests.
when you work on the cam belt.
did you use the right markings if not compression fails and spark timing will be all wrong,
do NOT USE "I" marks, for key or timing mark see below.  the bottom crank mark is at 12PM. cog and top on oil pump marked)







if this is done right  the spark is next.
error #1 by many PO/'s  is using 8v  wiring order for 16v engine, and will NEVER run again.







Timing a Distrib is just like some old 1960s Chevy V8.
the disrib is gear driving 13 teeth (IIRC)


the timing steps are here (full)

https://fixkick.com/16v-ignition-timing



the simpler way

1. crank pulley at 0 degree mark TDC #1 firing,  the both #1 valves are loss if not #4 is firing, if yes, turn crank crank one full turn and now #1 valves are lose.
   
2. off the distrib cap, see rotor ., at 1PM if not it was timed wrong, I mark the distrib base rim with ink to make #1 spot on the rim of distrib.
   
3. remove distrib body and drop it back down up to 3 times,(guess) until rotor lands on paint mark above. bingo timed correctly (later we use  timing light)
   
4. tighten the side clamp on distrib base.
   

seen these cars with C4 china junk parts rotor that fits on 3 ways, DOOMED that, buy real parts,  this is my first look thing, the bottom of the rotor (REAL) has spring clip
that blocks all ways of doing it wrong 2 wrong 1 right.  this is good rotor.  



compression spec, on this engine is  
The 16v is 195 PSI. Seen in  FSM chapter 6-6 (not 6A1)    (never 100 , never 50) if all are low the cam belt is wrong.

warm engine at sea level.  and throttle must be blocked open some or more, air starvation makes readings wrong.

Ok looks like I’m starting over from scratch. The engine ran when I got it. I have seen it run and driven it. I timed it based off of the info from your forum and pages, I never moved the cam and crank pulleys independently. I put the plugs back the way the PO has them originally. I will be starting over verifying everything from the beginning. And will let you know how it goes.

[Von]

SOME of those headers made by Doug thorley are not made now (too few cars on road running I guess)
do you have this slot?


this header  has the magic hidden EGR slot..(and matching new gasket for that , calif CARB certified,  DO YOU have the slot; SOME DO NOT.

THY-716Y-C (or  THY-716Y-SS)   the SS I think is still made, for sure sold.







as you can see this 16v engine had 2 kinds of header,short and long, (calf, and fed)
long tube headers started in CALIF 1992 and later all cards when long.
ending this mess (fails hard) (had after burner plates inside the melt and block exh, flow, yah super bad.. long header is best, and not use  below #1 part

next up CALImini. 

long ago  they made these too  and are very good.

look for the tube   #4 port, seen at rear, here os CALMINI header is EGR fitted. SK703Y-S

My header does have that slot. Also to bring you up to speed where I am at with it now, I got the new cat. It is not melted and is installed properly now. PO removed. Prior to that I checked main cog for damage, replaced the pugs gapped .28 and wires installed properly, I replaced the timing belt but did not move the main and cam crank independently, I set valve lash to .06 but they were only off at .05 and or 0.07 so not much adjustment. The vehicle ran before but will Crank and not start now.

Assuming that all my work is correct could the new cat be the reason for it not starting. Before you answer a little back story. After vehicle would not start I started looking around the engine bay. I found the EGR disconnected from the block with all wires and hoses still connected. It seems that the PO removed the Cat and the EGR. Could the EGR being removed be the reason with the new cat that the vehicle won’t start?

THE EGR REMOVED LEAVES A HUGE HOLE IN THE INTAKE, VERY BAD THAT.
.05" is match book cover thick dont you mean .005" THICK?  or are those metric number?
IS Compression good
spark timing good
does test fuel work (sprayed by hand)'

I found that the IG Coil fuse under the dash (15 amp) on drivers side kept popping every time I start the engine. I disconnected the O2 sensor, replaced the fuse and started the sidekick. It fired right up. Now I need to figure out the correlation between the O2 sensor and the coil fuse. The O2 sensor was brand new Bosch unit and I installed it when the I installed the Doug Thorley header. The old O2 that I removed did not pop the fuse so I’m thinking it is the Sensor. How can I troubleshoot this O2 sensor.

Also side not with the EGR valve still out exhaust blew out the back of the block so it tells me the in engine pathways are still open. Also exhaust out the rear tailpipe tells me the used cat I got is not clogged. This info doesn’t really matter to this part of the post it just makes me happy.

[fixkick]

SOME of those headers made by Doug thorley are not made now (too few cars on road running I guess)
do you have this slot?


this header  has the magic hidden EGR slot..(and matching new gasket for that , calif CARB certified,  DO YOU have the slot; SOME DO NOT.

THY-716Y-C (or  THY-716Y-SS)   the SS I think is still made, for sure sold.







as you can see this 16v engine had 2 kinds of header,short and long, (calf, and fed)
long tube headers started in CALIF 1992 and later all cards when long.
ending this mess (fails hard) (had after burner plates inside the melt and block exh, flow, yah super bad.. long header is best, and not use  below #1 part

next up CALImini. 

long ago  they made these too  and are very good.

look for the tube   #4 port, seen at rear, here os CALMINI header is EGR fitted. SK703Y-S

My header does have that slot. Also to bring you up to speed where I am at with it now, I got the new cat. It is not melted and is installed properly now. PO removed. Prior to that I checked main cog for damage, replaced the pugs gapped .28 and wires installed properly, I replaced the timing belt but did not move the main and cam crank independently, I set valve lash to .06 but they were only off at .05 and or 0.07 so not much adjustment. The vehicle ran before but will Crank and not start now.

Assuming that all my work is correct could the new cat be the reason for it not starting. Before you answer a little back story. After vehicle would not start I started looking around the engine bay. I found the EGR disconnected from the block with all wires and hoses still connected. It seems that the PO removed the Cat and the EGR. Could the EGR being removed be the reason with the new cat that the vehicle won’t start?

THE EGR REMOVED LEAVES A HUGE HOLE IN THE INTAKE, VERY BAD THAT.
.05" is match book cover thick dont you mean .005" THICK?  or are those metric number?
IS Compression good
spark timing good
does test fuel work (sprayed by hand)'

I found that the IG Coil fuse under the dash (15 amp) on drivers side kept popping every time I start the engine. I disconnected the O2 sensor, replaced the fuse and started the sidekick. It fired right up. Now I need to figure out the correlation between the O2 sensor and the coil fuse. The O2 sensor was brand new Bosch unit and I installed it when the I installed the Doug Thorley header. The old O2 that I removed did not pop the fuse so I’m thinking it is the Sensor. How can I troubleshoot this O2 sensor.

Also side not with the EGR valve still out exhaust blew out the back of the block so it tells me the in engine pathways are still open. Also exhaust out the rear tailpipe tells me the used cat I got is not clogged. This info doesn’t really matter to this part of the post it just makes me happy.

when the IG coil fuel blows the CEL lamp goes dead,  ECU is  dead, and spark and injections dead, and test fuel  would  fail  I assumed you checked spark and the lamp, sorry
o2 short deal is super common on all cars for sure this old.
1: wrong O2 used (uses special 4 wire o2)  see link below for the evolution of EGR on this car, COMPLEX it is. changing 6 times  and some with an 02 relay and  shorts there.
2: wired wrong,
3: wires to it melted due to lost suzuki tie back clamps the wires hit header melt and short.
4: bad O2. (not if new and made by BOSCH.)


I have  page covering just them. (varies by year, and Calif/Fed rules) complex. but my charts will tell you what you have.

https://fixkick.com/sensors/OxyGen_senso...ml#unified

[fixkick]

first find out if the car is CALIF or Federal car, hood sticker missing?, makes that hard
the old 02, has plug,
fed is 3 wires and one blank pin of a 4 pin connector
Calif is 4 wires and 4 populated pins. with white connector and flat pins
the fed 3 wire connector is black an was round pins.
hope you have the old sensor intact, with connector still.

the bosch universal hand wire sensors are good too.
15726-3F (for sure most common sold car 48 states.) but only looking first counts.
15730-4C

last 2 digits above are mine 3 mean 3 wire, F means federal sold as low as $20 a real money saver. sans connector stock with adapter,

[Von]

first find out if the car is CALIF or Federal  car,  hood sticker missing?, makes that hard
the old 02, has plug,  
fed is 3 wires and one blank pin of a 4 pin connector
Calif is 4 wires and 4 populated pins.   with white connector and flat pins
the fed 3 wire connector is black an was round pins.
hope you have the old sensor intact,  with connector still.  

the bosch universal hand wire sensors are good too.
15726-3F  (for sure most common sold car 48 states.) but only looking first counts.
15730-4C

last  2 digits  above  are mine 3 mean 3 wire,  F means federal  sold as low as $20 a real money saver.  sans connector stock with adapter,

The old had white connector and flat pins. It also had 4 wires. The new one was a universal that required me to splice Into the old wire with the connector side. The new had a blue (signal) white (ground) 2x black (both heater.) The old wire with the connector had the same color wires (blue, white, 2x black) the only ones that could be swapped are the black wires but have been told it doesn’t matter for those. Is there any diagram that shows on the connector end what the 4 wire are called or are for so I can confirm the proper wires were spliced to the right spots. Also I was told that the 2 black wires did not matter which one went to which. Does that matter or could they be swapped.