03-19-2020, 01:05 PM
Okay well todays's update:
I called shop yesterday morning and told them I wanted to pick up the car. Its just going to sit there until the MAF comes which is estimated Friday or Saturday. Car driveable and they werent going to touch it anymore til I bring MAF.
Sent driver in my car to pick me up. Older fellow who has drag racing history etc. He said I think you need good fuel - not regular gas. Not saying cure, but better grade - Premium not regular or mid. Good brand like Chevron. It should help....(I am thinking you pay bill! I am on fixed income). Car has run fine on regular 87 octane since owned.)
He also said car didnt seem to hesitate as long as no go in 5th gear. BS. does in all gears - sorry. I know the car and todays driving was best example yet.
So we go back to shop and I drop him off. I talked mechanic. He insists thinks MAF and does not think PO400 gonna rear ugly head.
Keep in mind, he did put the throttle body on that I bought of Ebay. Is correct for 97. Smaller TPS - bought new. Mikuni brand like original on car. Calibrated, etc.
So here are my observations:
Drive home and the occassional hesitation but recovers with steady pedal. Can almost make happen by letting off pedal then trying to increase speed. Hesitates then recovers.
Got home and drove .01 miles 3 hours later and returned .01 miles -.02 miles total. Outside temp about 75 degrees. When started car idle up at 1500....wait, wait, wait. Finally drops to about 1200 rpms then just a hair above 1000rpms. I am looking at temp guage and no movement. Hmmmm not warm enough to move. I dont know elapsed time but put in gear and drove to destination. No problems. Temp guage coming up slowly - maybe quarter way from cold to middle of guage. Get to destination, put car in neutral and sit. Watch RPMS. Idling about 850. Barely the litttle hiccup (misfire) while sitting. Turned off.
Car off about 10 minutes- if that (walking dogs). Restart. Rpms go to about 1200 for a few seconds then then drop to about 850. Car NOT at operating temp. Maybe now at 1/2 way between C and middle. Get home and put in neutral and sit watch RPMS. about 850
Same drive this morning and same results as above. 2nd drive was longer and more productive I guess you could say. Total Mileage about 13 miles with 7 on/off cycles of start drive , stop, turn off. Do errand. start drive short distance, etc.
Ist destination about 3.5 miles away. Car at operating temp and when you first stop at stop light, idling at about 850 RPMs. then will drop to 500-600RPMs. Pulling into 1st destination, geared down to second, hesitation and kinda jerky this time. Continue into parking lot slow, hesitaion then go, etc. Hmm. Take care of errand - about 20-25 minutes. Start car and go to next destination - about .02 miles away. No problems noted. Stop at destination, about 15 -20 minutes there - maybe. Start car and leave for next destination - btw when start car to go RPMS at 850 or so. Next destination about 1.5 miles away. Same scenario. About 15 mins or so there. start up car and go.
Minimal incidents of hesitation all way home.
Got home and came back out with scanner a few minutes later. NO CEL (mechanic had cleared I guess cuz not on I got car Tuesday). Reader says 3 codes!!!! Ugh! Pulled codes : PO102 Mass or volume air flow Circuit low (i think words said), PO400 Generic and first I have ever seen this said "pd" (pending?) PO400 Generic.
Freeze Frame Data:
DTC Frz F: PO102
Fuel System 1: CL (OMG closed loop!???)
Fuel System 2: na/a
Load Pct (%): 0.0
(OF) ETC: 178 (What the heck?)
ShrtF1(%): 10.09
Long FT1 (%): 0.0
MAP (in HG) 13.9
RPM min: 777
VSS (mph): 0 (???)
Car sat about 1.5 hours maybe before had to go do next errand. This would be a longer drive all total about 40 miles but not solid driving. About 50-60% at speeds 50-70 mph. rest was 25-40 mph.
Started up (about the 13th total on/off key cycle since got car back) and guess what?! CEL !!!! ugh I knew it was coming. DRive to 1st destination not bad. Stopped for gas and thought I would humor the driver who had picked me up yesterday and at least try the premium gas. I only had a qtr tank so. Filled up premium at Chevron and added the bottle of Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner you suggested.
Typically at this point, until today, car would not have had many if any hesitations to home. But not today. Had many! Stop at light etc. Start out idle 800-850, then 500 or so. It was awful! Almost like it did not like the premium gas, etc....or so it seemed. What the heck?
I did not clear codes so could not get any more data when got home. I tried but all data was same in freeze frame except it said on codes 2 instead of 3 - PO400 generic was 2nd code. First code was PO102.
At this point keeping car here til Monday. Can I try to golf tee the EGR just to check? I have no golf tee so can use a screw? I cannot say with certainty that it has been checked. Only installed. Sorry but I am doubting most all mechanics these days.
All my tools are limited as is my knowledge but am okay with trying this and any other simple thing you think might help before return it to mechanic on Monday.
The more data I can give maybe they can FINALLY figure the crap out.
I still want backpressure test, too. If nothing else to have at least tried/checked.
Also been reading all stuff on FixKick and saw what you said about hoses on modulator , etc. God I hope connected right! I can take pics of whatever you think might be helpful.
BTW when car was idling at 800-850, I switched a/c comp on just to see if RPMS went up. Nope stayed same or maybe slight drop. Did not turn on blower. Was just curious. In old days, not this car, but old 70's carb cars I thought they used to set idle one with a/c off and with on...dunno. I probably misunderstood.
One other observation....I just replaced muffler early December around the 1st or so. Had kept noticing alot of moisture dripping out rear and and first few weeks after replacing when you parked car and it was cooling down would hear "popping" coming from it like metal expansion....never had that happen before with a muffler. But now I hear rattling coming from it...just noticed. like already rusted out inside? No visible hole and not loud like a hole but rusting along edges of seams in diff spots. OMG Walker brand that I got at O'Reilly. Same as one I had put on before.
I called shop yesterday morning and told them I wanted to pick up the car. Its just going to sit there until the MAF comes which is estimated Friday or Saturday. Car driveable and they werent going to touch it anymore til I bring MAF.
Sent driver in my car to pick me up. Older fellow who has drag racing history etc. He said I think you need good fuel - not regular gas. Not saying cure, but better grade - Premium not regular or mid. Good brand like Chevron. It should help....(I am thinking you pay bill! I am on fixed income). Car has run fine on regular 87 octane since owned.)
He also said car didnt seem to hesitate as long as no go in 5th gear. BS. does in all gears - sorry. I know the car and todays driving was best example yet.
So we go back to shop and I drop him off. I talked mechanic. He insists thinks MAF and does not think PO400 gonna rear ugly head.
Keep in mind, he did put the throttle body on that I bought of Ebay. Is correct for 97. Smaller TPS - bought new. Mikuni brand like original on car. Calibrated, etc.
So here are my observations:
Drive home and the occassional hesitation but recovers with steady pedal. Can almost make happen by letting off pedal then trying to increase speed. Hesitates then recovers.
Got home and drove .01 miles 3 hours later and returned .01 miles -.02 miles total. Outside temp about 75 degrees. When started car idle up at 1500....wait, wait, wait. Finally drops to about 1200 rpms then just a hair above 1000rpms. I am looking at temp guage and no movement. Hmmmm not warm enough to move. I dont know elapsed time but put in gear and drove to destination. No problems. Temp guage coming up slowly - maybe quarter way from cold to middle of guage. Get to destination, put car in neutral and sit. Watch RPMS. Idling about 850. Barely the litttle hiccup (misfire) while sitting. Turned off.
Car off about 10 minutes- if that (walking dogs). Restart. Rpms go to about 1200 for a few seconds then then drop to about 850. Car NOT at operating temp. Maybe now at 1/2 way between C and middle. Get home and put in neutral and sit watch RPMS. about 850
Same drive this morning and same results as above. 2nd drive was longer and more productive I guess you could say. Total Mileage about 13 miles with 7 on/off cycles of start drive , stop, turn off. Do errand. start drive short distance, etc.
Ist destination about 3.5 miles away. Car at operating temp and when you first stop at stop light, idling at about 850 RPMs. then will drop to 500-600RPMs. Pulling into 1st destination, geared down to second, hesitation and kinda jerky this time. Continue into parking lot slow, hesitaion then go, etc. Hmm. Take care of errand - about 20-25 minutes. Start car and go to next destination - about .02 miles away. No problems noted. Stop at destination, about 15 -20 minutes there - maybe. Start car and leave for next destination - btw when start car to go RPMS at 850 or so. Next destination about 1.5 miles away. Same scenario. About 15 mins or so there. start up car and go.
Minimal incidents of hesitation all way home.
Got home and came back out with scanner a few minutes later. NO CEL (mechanic had cleared I guess cuz not on I got car Tuesday). Reader says 3 codes!!!! Ugh! Pulled codes : PO102 Mass or volume air flow Circuit low (i think words said), PO400 Generic and first I have ever seen this said "pd" (pending?) PO400 Generic.
Freeze Frame Data:
DTC Frz F: PO102
Fuel System 1: CL (OMG closed loop!???)
Fuel System 2: na/a
Load Pct (%): 0.0
(OF) ETC: 178 (What the heck?)
ShrtF1(%): 10.09
Long FT1 (%): 0.0
MAP (in HG) 13.9
RPM min: 777
VSS (mph): 0 (???)
Car sat about 1.5 hours maybe before had to go do next errand. This would be a longer drive all total about 40 miles but not solid driving. About 50-60% at speeds 50-70 mph. rest was 25-40 mph.
Started up (about the 13th total on/off key cycle since got car back) and guess what?! CEL !!!! ugh I knew it was coming. DRive to 1st destination not bad. Stopped for gas and thought I would humor the driver who had picked me up yesterday and at least try the premium gas. I only had a qtr tank so. Filled up premium at Chevron and added the bottle of Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner you suggested.
Typically at this point, until today, car would not have had many if any hesitations to home. But not today. Had many! Stop at light etc. Start out idle 800-850, then 500 or so. It was awful! Almost like it did not like the premium gas, etc....or so it seemed. What the heck?
I did not clear codes so could not get any more data when got home. I tried but all data was same in freeze frame except it said on codes 2 instead of 3 - PO400 generic was 2nd code. First code was PO102.
At this point keeping car here til Monday. Can I try to golf tee the EGR just to check? I have no golf tee so can use a screw? I cannot say with certainty that it has been checked. Only installed. Sorry but I am doubting most all mechanics these days.
All my tools are limited as is my knowledge but am okay with trying this and any other simple thing you think might help before return it to mechanic on Monday.
The more data I can give maybe they can FINALLY figure the crap out.
I still want backpressure test, too. If nothing else to have at least tried/checked.
Also been reading all stuff on FixKick and saw what you said about hoses on modulator , etc. God I hope connected right! I can take pics of whatever you think might be helpful.
BTW when car was idling at 800-850, I switched a/c comp on just to see if RPMS went up. Nope stayed same or maybe slight drop. Did not turn on blower. Was just curious. In old days, not this car, but old 70's carb cars I thought they used to set idle one with a/c off and with on...dunno. I probably misunderstood.
One other observation....I just replaced muffler early December around the 1st or so. Had kept noticing alot of moisture dripping out rear and and first few weeks after replacing when you parked car and it was cooling down would hear "popping" coming from it like metal expansion....never had that happen before with a muffler. But now I hear rattling coming from it...just noticed. like already rusted out inside? No visible hole and not loud like a hole but rusting along edges of seams in diff spots. OMG Walker brand that I got at O'Reilly. Same as one I had put on before.